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My Browser Builds (Part 3)

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15 hours ago, mixit said:

he's now wanting you to remove all his contributions from your code, you could play his game and ask him to provide an exact list@feodor2 of his personal contributions so that you could remove them.

So if he take even moochild code he does not have the right to demand for remove this code, right? But let we assume i removed lines of code what is his property. What can they do next - do others and moonchild himself have right to demand remove their code property or else?

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5 hours ago, ArcticFoxie said:

Mypal source code has ALWAYS been EASY to find!

I personally wouldn't mind a how-to guide on HOW to compile it myself.

You can "claim" that they exist, such as this  --  https://developer.palemoon.org/build/windows/

But has anyone here ever FOLLOWED those instructions  --  they do not work.  I've tried a dozen times in the last two years and I've always failed  :blushing:  :puke:

The Linux instructions might work, but I only dabble in Linux for GUI-something-different-FUN, I can't really "do" anything in it  --  http://developer.palemoon.org/build/linux/

I'm a Linux user (XP in a VM), and I can say their Linux instruction worked for me, when I built Pale Moon a few times in the past.

Added this compiler flag:

ac_add_options --enable-optimize="-march=native -g -O2"

Don't do that any more however, because it's a burden for my HD and CPU.

In general, compiling on Linux is much more straightforward and faster than building on Windows.

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3 hours ago, feodor2 said:

So if he take even moochild code he does not have the right to demand for remove this code, right? But let we assume i removed lines of code what is his property. What can they do next - do others and moonchild himself have right to demand remove their code property or else?

IANAL, so I can't tell you with certainty what rights they have or don't have, especially since they're trying to export US law into Ukraine (assumption based on your profile flag). The MPL 2.0 states "Any litigation relating to this License may be brought only in the courts of a jurisdiction where the defendant maintains its principal place of business and such litigation shall be governed by laws of that jurisdiction" (underlined emphasis by me). In my opinion their interpretation of the license means very little without actually litigating the whole thing. I suppose they could try to get Github to throw you out by filing a DMCA claim, but you could then file a counter claim and they'd still have to go to court to get their way. To Ukrainian court, that is.

The inconvenience (for those who can't figure it out) of having to ask you how to get your source code is no bigger than having to email Tobin to get his source. :rolleyes: For my tastes, Tobin's way is actually further from the spirit of open-source than having the source freely available to anyone 24/7, even if there aren't very specific instructions on how to get it (like I said before, I personally was able to get it pretty easily). The MPL 2.0 states "You must inform recipients of the Executable Form how they can obtain a copy of such Source Code Form by reasonable means in a timely manner", which I think ultimately doesn't preclude informing people post facto, once asked. AFAIK you've never made any attempts to hide the source code, because even before, when you only distributed your patches, the main source was always available (a patch without what to patch would be nonsensical indeed! :rolleyes:), and contrary to what (IIRC) Tobin has claimed in the past, the license doesn't actually say you have to provide/host your own copy of the source. In my opinion, even if with some idiosyncracies, you have adhered to the spirit of the license and Tobin & Co are not operating in good faith :thumbdown. But again: IANAL.

Edited by mixit
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Does Mypal Centaury have a notice during install (or in the included documents) which says something like "source code can be obtained here and there, blabla"?

Maybe they're nitpicking about this?  There should be a mention somewhere how to get the source.

On the other hand, does PM or UXP have such a notice?


Also, not sure about MPL specifically, but i think the license should be included (link may be acceptable too) with the distribution.


Anyways, i tried the SSE/mingw build of Mypal - @feodor2 you should advertise these more :P

I haven't been able to play a YT video normally (on this PC) since a long time. I usually set them to 240p, but even then there are a lot of skips and freezes.

Now i played a whole short video in 480p and by the end the stats were saying "dropped frames: 0" :)

The page loading before that was a long waiting with many requests to kill the script raping my CPU though.

True, i had just a few tabs open, and the only changes were disabling WEBM and installing uBlock. We'll see how it behaves when i get 180 open tabs like in my NM27, or 150 tabs like in the St52, with couple dozen extensions :P

Edited by RainyShadow
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2 hours ago, RainyShadow said:

Does Mypal have a notice during install (or in the included documents) which says something like

The thing is not about mypal, but centaury scroll up to read.


21 minutes ago, ArcticFoxie said:

Found the Mypal mingw32 but couldn't find the Centaury mingw32.

Until resolve the matter with tobin no any centaury will be meanwhile.

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On 8/25/2021 at 11:57 AM, mixit said:

In my opinion their interpretation of the license

... is that it is a pile of bull crap. With all due respect.


On 7/10/2021 at 4:33 AM, nicolaasjan said:

I just noticed that network.captive-portal-service.enabled is already set to false by default in New Moon 28.

As a follow up, that setting gets reverted, somehow, over time. To completely stop it you need the following:

user_pref("captivedetect.canonicalURL",""); // set
user_pref("captivedetect.maxRetryCount", 0); // set
user_pref("captivedetect.maxWaitingTime", 0); // set
user_pref("captivedetect.pollingTime", 0); // set

//set meaning that you have to enter about:config and set the specific items manually. user.js doesn't work for them.

Edited by dmiranda
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45 minutes ago, RainyShadow said:

OK, i edited my post. 

Care to comment about it now?

Why to edit all these browsers do not have a such notice during install. I wanted to say that mypal was not the matter.


Please help to understand what is this about.


written by Tobin

"If you are, however, not going to accept that with rare exception my contributions are mine then the open source license is meaningless and it falls back to copyright across the board which means you are going to have to seek permission from every copyright holder for the past 22 years. That is hundreds of thousands of people. Is that REALLY how you are gonna play this?"





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On 8/25/2021 at 6:34 PM, feodor2 said:

"If you are, however, not going to accept that with rare exception my contributions are mine then the open source license is meaningless and it falls back to copyright across the board which means you are going to have to seek permission from every copyright holder for the past 22 years. That is hundreds of thousands of people. Is that REALLY how you are gonna play this?"

WTF is this fat kiddo (Tobin) talking about? He is talking crap out of his nerd a**. The opioid crisis is a real curse.


He. gitlab ain't that bad after all.

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Greetings, everyone...I hope my presence here will not be unwelcome.
I have been following the happenings on this website with great happiness and excitement for many years.
It is wonderful, as a longtime XP user, to see what many of this site's users have been able to accomplish in keeping it a viable OS long after many mainstream companies started leaving it for dead.
For me, XP represents Windows' finest hour--while retaining remarkable compatibility with many legacy applications and older hardware, it is still modern enough to be amazingly reliable as a daily-use OS.
Hassle-free installation, easy to customize and tweak to your liking, and built on mature, stable code...MS truly outdid themselves.

I wasn't planning to say anything, but in light of recent events I felt compelled to speak my piece on the situation at hand, and of course I am speaking strictly as a sideline observer.
First of all, I want to say that I have tremendous appreciation and the utmost respect for @roytam1 and @feodor2.
Their programming knowledge and dedication to maintaining XP compatible forks of Basilisk and Pale Moon is admirable by any measure (and Roy's other browser projects, past and present, are also commendable).
Though I have admittedly been sticking with Roy's Serpent52 weeklies, I have tested some of Feodor's MyPal and Centaury releases and always found them rock-solid...I didn't have a single problem with any of the builds that I tried.

I'm not going to comment on Tobin personally, only the way that he and his peers have handled the circumstances involving Feodor.
I do not believe they have approached it diplomatically or respectfully--it definitely seemed like there was (and is) malicious intent.
From where I stand they are completely in the wrong to attack Feodor the way they have.
At the same time it seems they were given a reason and opportunity to attack because (if my understanding is correct, and please forgive/correct me if I'm overlooking anything major) the source code was not available or easily accessible for every Centaury build going back to the earliest (whereas MyPal builds always have the source code for the corresponding build available and accessible).
I don't hold it against Feodor at all, because for what it's worth Basilisk builds are not as clearly definable as Pale Moon ones since Basilisk is more of an experimental platform for UXP that also happens to double as a worthy successor to the Australis-era Firefox (whereas Pale Moon is the 'main event', the featured attraction).

What's truly ironic to me is that Basilisk was created as a way to maintain the Australis interface and restore features eliminated from Firefox, while the same applies to Pale Moon (except it's the 4-28 interface).
You would think that the Moonchild developers' dedication to sustaining all of these different elements after Mozilla deprecated them would translate into great enthusiasm for those who are trying to sustain compatibility with older OSes.
I've never seen any of them say anything remotely nice about Roy or Feodor (please correct me if I'm wrong)--I'd think they would actually be quite impressed with how they got their officially 'incompatible' browsers fully functional in an OS they abandoned.
Instead of showing respect, honoring their hard work and working with them to get the best out of these browsers and out of each other, they have dismissed them and expressed great disdain not only towards them but those who (like me) prefer XP over later versions of Windows.
I will say this, however: I do have tremendous respect for the Moonchild team & the effort they've put into their browsers for so long.
There are definitely a lot of talented coders over at MCP, and I wish them all the best for continued success because their browsers have helped to keep alive all of the old features that we appreciated back then, and can thankfully still appreciate and make use of now.
But though their browsers are good, when they express toxicity/hatefulness of the sort that I've seen, it makes their character look bad.

I realize that this message has gotten very long, so I'm going to wrap things up here.
From the bottom of my heart, I offer my most sincere gratitude to Roy, Feodor, and everyone else who is working on XP related browser projects (shouts out to @Humming Owl on the 360Chrome builds, as well as @ArcticFoxie and @Dixel [who I know are also doing their own builds], and everyone else who is helping to keep XP useful for the Internet and anything else you could ever want to use it for!)
I hope you'll all keep up the good work, and that you won't lose your passion for this great OS...long live XP, and God bless everyone!


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I found how to resolve matter with Tobin. I transfer mypal repository to the new owner, who will comply the licence.

Meanwhile i continue work on mypal, keep it up to date, only not publish releases. New owner then will publish releases, And i think we can reinstate centaury there with link to the code of course.

So who want to be the new owner?

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@cmccaff1 I have to say it, this is a very good comment. Everything is very well described and narrated. It is good to meet people like you, and welcome to MSFN! (you were already a member since long ago but it is nice a little welcome ;))

I know that it seems weird that I am posting here but I wanted to say that. 

I've also seen the situation and want to tell @feodor2 not to worry about those guys trying to ditch you up, you have done a very good work. Do not let anyone destroy what you have accomplished. Even if they are correct about the legal issues (the bad intentions make me wonder), that does not mean that you have to eliminate everything you have done (at least those are my thoughts). I am sure everything will be fine at the end.


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Thank you very much for your kind words, @Humming Owl!
I hope it was not bothersome or inconvenient to mention you here...I'm not sure if there's any kind of competition (if there is, hopefully it's in the healthiest sense) between you and others creating browsers.
The reason I mentioned you is because I've also been following your thread, and in fact I use your latest build of 360Chrome v13 as a secondary browser (for all of the things that Serpent52 can't quite handle).
For me, it's a nearly flawless one-two punch: each picks up the other's slack, and the unique features of both make for an amazing user experience.
Serpent's an all-in-one browser that can do Java/Flash/Silverlight/Shockwave (essential for me as I still enjoy Homestar Runner shorts in their original .swf form [those HTML5 conversions aren't doing it for me] and going to the Andkon Arcade to get my online game fix, among a myriad of other things), and 360Chrome works great for Twitter and other sites that are really optimized more for Chromium.

I'm looking forward to seeing what happens going forward with all of the different XP related projects being shared here on MSFN--I'm never the type to pledge allegiance or swear loyalty to any particular program or any particular programmer, but I am always the type to give credit where it's due.
Though it is becoming clearer with time which programs work best for my personal needs, I am always happy to try something new...if it works, it works, but in general I tend to take older versions of software because they are lighter on CPU/RAM usage than the latest ones (for example, I'm still rocking Office 97 to this day).
However, I always strive to keep my browsers up to date, so any developments on that front are of particular interest to me.
I am very excited to follow all of the latest news and see what people will hopefully continue to do with this legendary OS!


P.S. @feodor2 - I could not reliably shoulder the responsibilities involved, so I would not be a good owner, but I am very happy you have found what appears to be a good resolution to the situation for now. Please keep your head up and don't let anyone's negativity get you down...you are doing great work!

Edited by cmccaff1
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Which browser is the best option to view YouTube (480p or lower resolution) within a VM?

I am running some tests and of all browsers I tested, MyPal seems to run the smoothest in general but lags quite heavily on YouTube playback.

The set-up used is Windows XP Professional SP3 32-bit (fully updated, except POSReady, did not look into that yet) with Certifcates updated (Cert_Updater_v1.6) running inside VirtualBox (Ubuntu) on a Intel Celeron N3350 (870MB RAM available for VM)

MyPal 29.3.0
Loads YT regular version, struggles with video playback. Overall great performance for daily use

BNavigator 32-bit (20-08 update)
Crashes fully on YT load

NewMoon 27 32-bit (20-08 update)
Loads YT mobile website, cannot play video

NewMoon 27 32-bit SSE (20-08 update)
Loads YT mobile website, cannot play video, also seems to struggle with 'open link in New Tab'

Serpent IA32 (20-08 update)
Crashes fully on YT load, crashes on Eclipse.cx load

Serpent NM28XP SSE (20-08 update)
Crashes on opening

I am relatively new to rediscovering the joy that is Windows XP and loving it so far, love the forum as well, I would like to get some more knowledge on what exactly the impact of SSE/NON-SSE and IA32 would be. I am looking for the fastest and most stable browser to use, preferably also being able to run YouTube. So far MyPal is working the best, but I am curious to expand and run more browsers :)

If any additional info would help, feel free to request


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