My Browser Builds (Part 3)

[NotHereToPlayGames]

40 minutes ago, Rod Steel said:

Hey Moonchild, wanna know how you should act to get part of users back? ... Make peace with MSFN community. Bring back compatibility for XP and Vista. Un-ban people who u banned for supporting this forks.

But, lets be honest we all know that he will not do that.

As an MSFN member throughout this entire "mess", I never felt that MSFN was targeted specifically by Moonchild, only by Tobin.  I didn't really follow it that closely (Mozilla-based lost to Chromium-based long before the "mess" arrived).

As an XP user, I feel that official Pale Moon owes XP nothing.  I really strongly believe that.  If official Pale Moon is looking toward the future, then XP-compatibility is "backward-looking" and not "forward-looking".

I can't help but feel that EVERYBODY in the UNIVERSE that is still using XP and needs a browser to also run on XP, those people are already HERE at MSFN.

And we can count them on two hands!  Add one foot if we need some toes to count the Vista folks.

Official Pale Moon's future isn't XP and Vista.  I know that "goes against the grain" of MSFN collective-opinion, but I really don't think that official Pale Moon's "future" is XP and Vista.

There isn't that big of a "market share" for that audience.  And we are all already members here at MSFN.

[XPerceniol]

My soul be well - and be well my soul

So .. back to regularly scheduled programing here in support of our @roytam1 ans his continued passions and dedication to maintain his projects. 

"Let my soul shine through my heart and my heart shine through my eyes - let the tears wipe away any pain to make room for light" -XPerceniol

 

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by XPerceniol

[InterLinked]

26 minutes ago, NotHereToPlayGames said:

As an MSFN member throughout this entire "mess", I never felt that MSFN was targeted specifically by Moonchild, only by Tobin.  I didn't really follow it that closely (Mozilla-based lost to Chromium-based long before the "mess" arrived).

As an XP user, I feel that official Pale Moon owes XP nothing.  I really strongly believe that.  If official Pale Moon is looking toward the future, then XP-compatibility is "backward-looking" and not "forward-looking".

I can't help but feel that EVERYBODY in the UNIVERSE that is still using XP and needs a browser to also run on XP, those people are already HERE at MSFN.

And we can count them on two hands!  Add one foot if we need some toes to count the Vista folks.

 

Yeah, I guess you're right, most of the  retro folks are on Windows 2000, not XP or Vista. Much thanks to roytam1 for working MailNews and New Moon on W2K!

 

26 minutes ago, NotHereToPlayGames said:

Official Pale Moon's future isn't XP and Vista.  I know that "goes against the grain" of MSFN collective-opinion, but I really don't think that official Pale Moon's "future" is XP and Vista.

There isn't that big of a "market share" for that audience.  And we are all already members here at MSFN.

 

[Rod Steel]

On 12/19/2021 at 1:22 AM, roytam1 said:

hey, you didn't even mention killing Mypal and Male Poon with DMCA claims!

It goes under "declared war on XP community" and "etc" categories. I try to be brief and not writing long texts-sheets.

Hey people look at forum page where they discuss FUEL return and v29.4.3 changes. Tobin is in delusions. So funny.

Everyone like -  man what are we gonna do, we losing people so fast! And Tobin like - it's because of ... Just-off "hacked" some stuff:

Quote

They DID start back when we removed Jetpack in Pale Moon 27 but then Moonchild allowed it to be hacked and put back by JustOff and that initial burst of new development was cut off. Now it is 2021 and no one wants to do anything new save a few good people who have put in an effort.

Also Tobin on same page have opinion about FUEL getting back in Pale Moon:

Quote

In order to facilitate this retarded change that is JUST surrendering to the mob..

So according to Tobin doing what people want in project is "surrendering to mob". And in his understanding good, correct way for a developer is not listen to people and not do what people want to see, but to ignore they wishes and do what only developer want. This is classic autism - incapacity to understand others, incapacity to listen to them, to respect they wishes and threat them as you wanna be treated.

You know there is some "small" brand called ... LEXUS  and it started when Toyota send they best people in California to understand WHAT AMERICAN PEOPLE WANT IN LUXURY CAR. They learn what people wanted and created amazing car - LS400 - that was what people wanted and it was immediate success.

Also Tobin have thoughts about Baslisk about possibly to be killed. According to him it is not bad, but good:

Quote

About the ONLY good thing that would come out of this is killing Basilisk which was something that NEVER should have been a thing to begin with.

No comments...

On 12/19/2021 at 2:28 AM, XPerceniol said:

Not a single person even claimed the 'far-right' are nasty, eveil, predious

I don't know what "Not a single person" means in your sentence but i bashed far-right multiple times on this forum, including this month, where i explain here on page 76 why bitchute is bad s*** crazy far-right garbage. So i have no love both for far-right and far-left.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Rod Steel

[Mathwiz]

15 hours ago, NotHereToPlayGames said:

What am I missing that's supposed to be so special about Basilisk?

Probably nothing particularly special about Basilisk except the Australis UI, but Serpent is the only UXP browser that supports (at least some) WebExtension add-ons, multiprocess mode, and container tabs. Maybe a few other things I've forgotten or am unaware of.

Regarding the Australis UI, I do use Classic Theme Restorer to "tone it down" and make it a bit more PM-like; yet Australis lets me customize the UI in ways I can't easily do in NM or BNav. That said, you can do 90% of everything Basilisk can do in other UXP browsers, so it's largely a matter of personal choice.

Anyhow, as long as the UXP platform evolves, there's no reason Serpent can't evolve along with it, Basilisk or no Basilisk.

[Mathwiz]

2 hours ago, roytam1 said:

hey, you didn't even mention killing Mypal and Male Poon with DMCA claims!

1 hour ago, Rod Steel said:

It goes under "declared war on XP community" and "etc" categories.

Yes, of course, but technically, doesn't everything fall under the "etc." category?

I'm joking, of course; but seriously, I don't think @roytam1 intended that as a criticism of your post. Rather, I think he just thought those MCP actions deserved particular criticism. Section 12 of the DMCA is bad law that invites abuse; nevertheless, filing DMCA claims against forks of open-source software is one of the most blatant abuses of the DMCA I've seen.

MCP may have a defensible claim of trademark infringement against Male Poon, but AIUI the DMCA covers copyright, not trademark, infringement. (That said, IANAL and may be completely wrong.) And AFAICS @feodor2 followed all of MCP's trademark rules with his MyPal browser, and still got taken down, which IMO reveals the "branding" issue that MAT often raised against Roytam to be a red herring.

1 hour ago, NotHereToPlayGames said:

As an XP user, I feel that official Pale Moon owes XP nothing.

I agree. (Neither do Mozilla or Google owe XP anything, for that matter.) But I think what should be objected to is MCP's quite open hostility toward those who distribute forks of their browsers that do run on Windows XP and Vista. Mozilla and Google don't care; why should MCP?

MCP should just do their own thing. If others want to fork their software, well, that's the price of forking Mozilla's software in the first place! But they're so egotistical that they consider a fork with any alteration, no matter how minor, to be an implicit criticism of their decisions. MAT never liked Roytam's forks, but he really started blowing his stack when Roytam decided to revert MCP's decision to remove WebExtension add-on support from Serpent. "What? How dare you do something differently than I? Don't you realize I am perfect?"

[NotHereToPlayGames]

29 minutes ago, Mathwiz said:

And AFAICS @feodor2 followed all of MCP's trademark rules with his MyPal browser, and still got taken down, which IMO reveals the "branding" issue that MAT often raised against Roytam to be a red herring.

Agreed!  I actually thought MAT was on the right track on this one and disagreed with Roytam's file names of palemoon and basilisk right in the file name (still disagree, to be honest, but no skin off my back).
UNTIL we saw what happened with the "raccoon-branded" Mypal.  MAT lost all accountability from that point forward in my eyes.

29 minutes ago, Mathwiz said:

Mozilla and Google don't care; why should MCP?

BINGO!

[soggi]

The mirror of latest BNavigator, Firefox 45ESR, MailNews 52, New Moon 26.5/27/28 and Serpent 52/55 builds by @roytam1 has been updated -> soggi.org - tools.

changelog:
- added latest Firefox 45ESR 20211218 builds
- added latest New Moon 27 20211218 builds
- added latest New Moon 28 20211218 builds
- added latest Serpent 52 20211218 builds
- added latest Serpent 55 20211218 builds

<OT>

8 hours ago, Rod Steel said:

I don't know what "Not a single person" means in your sentence but i bashed far-right multiple times on this forum, including this month, where i explain here on page 76 why bitchute is bad s*** crazy far-right garbage. So i have no love both for far-right and far-left.

This may be correct and I also gave you a like for this post, but what you wrote about autistic people (in general!) is derogatory and "dumb" (to quote yourself) . Or do you mean "dumb" as "not able to speak"? But this is also wrong...

Talking about Matt A. Tobin is another thing and I want to quote myself from VOGONS:

Quote

His very rude attitude is simply disgusting. I've read many of his posts in several forums and in my opinion this guy has serious mental problems, I was always asking myself "What the hell is wrong with him?". He always insults all the locals and is not able to communicate in a somewhat normal way.

</OT>

kind regards
soggi

Edited December 19, 2021 by soggi

[nicolaasjan]

8 hours ago, Rod Steel said:

Autistic are handicapped, they usually don't have empathy, they incapable to look on themselves through the eyes of others. They are intolerant and dumb, after all THEY ARE MENTALLY HANDICAPPED.

(offtopic)

Well, thanks. Not.

I have ASD as well and I certainly don't recognize me in that statement.

I expect you to take your words back.

[msfntor]

On 12/18/2021 at 11:08 AM, NotHereToPlayGames said:

I was never really a fan of Basilisk.  Everything on the web I've ever needed would always work in NM27 / NM28 / BNav.  Well, until recent year or so and I've needed Chromium-based.  What am I missing that's supposed to be so special about Basilisk?

More Extensions compatible, websites, I have confidence on more recent versions (52, 55). Personnally I've used always Serpent/Moebius 55.

Read on palemoon thread post by rfman I totally agree: https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=27682&sid=2dd0c9ab110feb89d7d71b433854c181&start=60#p222478

Edited December 19, 2021 by msfntor

[NotHereToPlayGames]

This is where I highly disagree!

To me, the MOST IMPORTANT aspect of a web browser is that if I have 1000 weekly web sites that I visit, then the browser MUST work on ALL 1000 without any extensions installed.

If so much as ONE of those web sites does not work without any extensions installed, then that web browser does not serve my needs and not worth my time!  Period!

This is the case with NM27 / NM 28 / BNav / St52 / St55 -- I cannot pay one of my utility bills with ANY of them so they serve ZERO purpose for me to use them on my other 999 weekly web sites.

So "more extensions" means NOTHING to me!  ESPECIALLY given that extensions are a "dime a dozen".  MOST written by kids that are kinda clueless, but need to get their start somewhere.

Extension ecosystems, in my view, are kinda better managed by Mozilla-based than Chromium-based.  I do give Mozilla-based that.

How many times have you searched for an extension on the Chrome Web Store and found one dated over a decade old!?  It should have been DELETED a LONG time ago.

Extensions have NEVER dictated what browser I use.  AND NEVER WILL.

[msfntor]

8 minutes ago, NotHereToPlayGames said:

This is where I highly disagree!

I too disagree! Don't you understand me? 

The extensions I use are for better security (and privacy, why not?) - not for ease of use.

Then I judge browsers on their compatibility with my preferred security extensions.

[RainyShadow]

Not sure if it isn't just my bloated profile, but the last build of NM27 behaves kind of like St52, and not in a good way. Too often the browser gets stuck using all available CPU doing whatever.

I went back to the previous build and it was fine

Then i updated again to the last build, it is better now, but still (sometimes) there are those moments with non-responsive UI and 100% CPU usage.

 

Does anyone else have a similar experience with the latest NM27 build?

[NotHereToPlayGames]

1 hour ago, msfntor said:

I too disagree! Don't you understand me?

I totally understand you.  I'm simply emphasizing the importance of "modern web" compatibility OVER AND ABOVE "extensions".  I could care less about "extensions", I want a browser that can handle the "modern web" FIRST AND FOREMOST.

[msfntor]

2 minutes ago, NotHereToPlayGames said:

I totally understand you.  I'm simply emphasizing the importance of "modern web" compatibility OVER AND ABOVE "extensions".  I could care less about "extensions", I want a browser that can handle the "modern web" FIRST AND FOREMOST.

They're both important