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On Branding RoyTam1's Browsers


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On 1/6/2020 at 3:22 PM, siria said:

Mcinwwl said:
> Only for the nerdiest, windows codenames are not common knowledge.

Arctic Foxie said:
> These forked browsers in-and-of-themselves are "not common knowledge" and "only for the nerdiest".

But IMO they should not. Quite the opposite. They are a blessing for humanity, and should benefit as many freedom loving people as possible.
The various voices in this forum who strive to keep the userbase of such improved browsers as LOW as any possible, wanting to reserve their use to be just fun TOYS for experts who run them in a virtual retro machine on their (of course) modern main systems, make me wonder sometimes. About the purpose of such goals. Strongly disagree of course. And find it rather unfair to tell all people who don't have great expert skills themselves, who are floating somewhere along the vast spectrum between "geek" and "lemming", to just go and jump off the cliff with the other lemmings, regardless how strongly they fight to escape into the opposite direction (and make me wonder about the goal of keeping the userbase intentionally as tiny as possible.) What a pity :-(

Thank you, Siria, for telling everything. Those are my thoughts too, you know. These browsers should be made for everyone, our wives, the little ones.... they should be popular - they well deserve it!  
We  have to ask roytam1 very kindly to add the necessary code for those browsers, which are missing it (e.g. codecs to play all HTML5 videos ... possibility to download more extensions ...) - already Moebius 55, Serpent 52 and New Moon 28 are as it should be. I'd like to play the videos on Arctic Fox... 
And maybe roytam1 is preparing a nice surprise with a new browser based on FF. 56 or 57 ... who knows.

On branding, I'm for RFox only: RFox 28, RFox 52 etc.

Edited by msfntor
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5 hours ago, Mcinwwl said:

My proposals were rejected. There were some others that indicated that. I particularly liked SSEfox

I don't remember seeing that but I like it too, particularly for @roytam1's SSE version of FF 45 ESR. It concisely says exactly what it is.

But for the present let's try to stay focused on MCP's forks, New Moon and Serpent, and MAT's forks, Borealis and Interlink. Those are the ones that keep causing us grief.

Edit: Attaching @siria's logo. Looks like it might be a natural for Draconis, or whatever we end up calling Serpent (if we stick with the serpent theme, that is).


Edited by Mathwiz
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4 hours ago, msfntor said:

And maybe roytam1 is preparing a nice surprise with a new browser based on FF. 56 or 57

I wouldn't hold my breath for FF 57 for XP (it's Quantum), but FF 56 might be possible. He has to figure out how to deal with the Rust framework on XP, which ain't easy, but he has made some progress....

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3 hours ago, Mathwiz said:

He has to figure out how to deal with the Rust framework on XP, which ain't easy, but he has made some progress

I'm just able to avoid Rust getting into binary, and too many Win7+ changes come atop of the codebase, the progress has been stuck since last screenshot on win7 posted.

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Hello friends!

I know I haven't been too active here lately; I would just like to chime in to second @siria (greetings, my old K-Meleonaire comrade! 😊 ) and others in voting for the Lunaris/Draconis naming scheme, as conceived by @LoneCrusader

  1. They sound the nicest and are most cohesive (in my opinion)
  2. They surprisingly doesn't seem to be in use by any other similar software programs!
  3. They seem to be proper Latin as far as I can tell
  4. I think that they (along with Möbius) clearly communicate the programs' lineage (at least to those who would be interested), and
  5. Perhaps most surprisingly, they are not only already approved, but favoured by Mr. Tobin!

I would really like to see these programs named and branded properly; I almost certainly won't have time to fabricate artwork from scratch for this, though I can likely fine tune whatever is submitted, if desired.  In particular, I can imagine a wonderful icon, similar to Firefox's, but with a dragon breathing fire over the earth (I don't think I currently have the skills to make that fire look really nice, nor do I even know what canvas size(s) are required, but I'm always awed and inspired by the Mozilla splash screen which I've often used for various Mozilla family programs!

Lastly but not leastly, I just would like to say that while I understand why some here might feel hostility toward Mr. Tobin due to his past stances (and possibly actions) against these sorts of endeavours, I think that everyone here ought to understand that people can change, he has made quite a generous offer here in my opinion, and I think we should go ahead and do our part regarding it as soon as is possible!
While of course I appreciate and respect (and am honestly awed) by all of roytam's hard work to make these Windows XP and 2000-compatible program builds possible (and so frequent and regularly too!), there seems to be an overall lack of understanding and/or appreciation for the work of Mr. Tobin who in very large part made these programs possible in the first place!  Some people here seem to treat him like a random bully from outside, as though he's contributed nothing, so I would highly recommend that anyone who wants some understanding to read over the development history of Pale Moon and its derivatives, especially the most recent half, in order to gain some perspective and understanding perhaps.
Of course, a lot of this great technology was originally built by people for Mosaic/Netscape/Mozilla, and....all I can say about that is...just go put about:mozilla into your location bar!


MOZILLA Splash Screen.png


Edited by ThomasW
replaced bitmap image with portable network graphic!
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Hi, just to avoid a little misunderstanding: Yes I mentioned to like Lunaris, sounds nice and hints to Moon etc. But Draconis is the exact opposite, couldn't stand to daily use a browser sounding so cruel (draconic/ian), but luckily don't need to anyway ;-)

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I wanted to update you all that I have not abandoned you all. It's just Christmas night I got VERY VERY ill with a hospital-grade superflu I acquired a few days prior while visiting my father when he was in the hospital. I had a very high 104.5F fever that night and was pretty debilitated for days after as such serious flus tend to do. It has taken me a while to get better and get back into the swing of things.

I see that discussion has been fairly constructive given the scope of a public forum so I am positive about the prospects of eventually resolving this. Indeed, I am very positive about the prospects the 2020s are offering in general. Oh I know it will be a lot of hard work and struggle but anything worthwhile always is.

ANYWAY, this post is technically irrelevant so I will leave it there. Just wanted to let you know that I haven't just abandoned this or all of you as may or may not have been suggested.

I look forward to constructive monitoring ;)

Edited by Matt A. Tobin
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On 1/8/2020 at 4:26 PM, Mathwiz said:

But for the present let's try to stay focused on MCP's forks, New Moon and Serpent, and MAT's forks, Borealis and Interlink. Those are the ones that keep causing us grief.

Since Mr. Tobin's Borealis is itself derived from SeaMonkey, roytam1's derivative might perhaps be branded MonkeySeaMonkeyDo. :rolleyes:

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On 1/11/2020 at 12:37 AM, Matt A. Tobin said:

I have not abandoned you all ... I look forward to constructive monitoring ;)

Good that you are healthy again , returned here , and did post.

I'll try saying this , and you can comment IF you choose.
I only speak for me , but what I will say it is hopefully
accurate enough and useful to you.

Awhile back here (MSFN site) , I was chattering that RT's Browsers
at INSTALL and via the HELP MENUs , did AIM at URLs that were (are)
PALEMOON (YOU) rather than at MSFN website or RT websites (download).

So , @Mathwiz did agree with that , and then initiated PULLS via
RT (RoyTam) to FIX the URLs to aim at MSFN and RT websites
when HELP MENU choices were activated inside the RT Browsers.
So , there is actually that 'history' of doing something with the notion
of making things LESS ANNOYING for PALEMOON (YOU).

NO IDEA here IF that 'MATHWIZ' wants to be like 'Point Man'
for RT on this BRANDING issues situation. But IF that 'MATHWIZ'
wants to do that , it would be my preference and suggestion for you.

I do NOT like much the idea of VOTING with regard to BRANDING issues.
It has a feel for me of 'too many cooks' creating 'bad broth' somehow.

Maybe YOU and 'MATHWIZ' could exchange some PRIVATE MESSAGES
via MSFN here , and see how it goes for both of you ???

Again , NOT sure if that 'MATHWIZ' wants this either.
'MATHWIZ' can always say 'no' if he chooses.

I really do not care much how the RT Browsers might be named.
But 'MATHWIZ' has stated , and I think most here realize it ,
that there could be benefits to BRANDING of RT's Browsers.

But also , as observation , I have WONDERED if that BRANDING
is going to LESSEN that much the ANNOYING QUESTIONS that might
get 'aimed' at YOU about RT's Browsers 'inadvertently' by USERS.
I have WONDERED if that a different HOSTING DOWNLOAD SITE
for RT's Browsers is more the 'solution' if you will.
Where the RT DOWNLOAD website(s) do make more clear (at download)
just WHERE (URL) that SUPPORT QUESTIONS are to be aimed there.
And also , it is made CLEAR that RT's Browsers are NOT somehow
with PALEMOON (YOU) in a USER SUPPORT sense. Maybe that ALL does
'fall under' BRANDING aspects.

'MATHWIZ' was commenting of RT , that he seems to just want to 'roll with the punches'
of possible BRANDING notions. And then 'figure' for himself if that he (RT)
can 'live with it' (BRANDING) overall. So okay , enough from me for now.

Edited by TechnoRelic
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