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Mathwiz

On Branding RoyTam1's Browsers

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I have filed an issue at your github uxp repository that if you are not going to stay sync'd with UXP then you need to remove official and unstable trademarked branding from the repository.

In other news, if you would like to unify your forked applications into a single repository as I have done you can use this as a base: https://github.com/binaryoutcast/comm-buildbase

Since you are manually applying patches anyway you can make the paths whatever you want and use easy git commands to set the basepath of a patch on the fly then you can maintain and make these real forks and manage them from one repository. I am even willing to help set this up..

You could have it setup as the following tree:

topsrcdir
|- strata (palemoon)
|- australis (basilisk)
|- mail
|- calendar
|- navigator

I would make all the build system path modifications for you and then set a submodule to your platform repo.

It would be really easy to do especially since I am already in the mode for it with my recent work. I'd even (while still using generic assets) even rename the applications for you or if you finally give me names and an icon I will go ahead and change em all. I will do all the prep work and we can finally get this settled. You can rewrite patches to your heart's content then and stop having me harp on it.

Edited by Matt A. Tobin
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1 hour ago, Matt A. Tobin said:

Again for the four UXP applications.. I am willing to do the work for you, get em all in one repo, do the branding (yes I will keep the appdata paths as they are to avoid profile issues) and gift wrap it for you for Christmas.

What do you say?

I, for one, say: Yay! Great! :thumbup

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On 12/16/2019 at 9:58 PM, Matt A. Tobin said:

OH just call Basilisk 55, call it the codename for the repo.. Moebius/Mobius. Good name at any rate.

Again for the four UXP applications.. I am willing to do the work for you, get em all in one repo, do the branding (yes I will keep the appdata paths as they are to avoid profile issues) and gift wrap it for you for Christmas.

What do you say?

.....

ALSO, if you go forward with this I will list you on thereisonlyxul.org in a special section for Windows XP users.

I have to concede that was quite a kind gesture.  For all I say against you, I'm VERY impressed.  Yet oddly enough, I'm more of the same mindset as you are towards continued XP use.  Nonetheless, it was a very kind gesture you made towards this crew.  Cheers and Merry Christmas!  :)

 

Edited by Jody Thornton
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On 12/17/2019 at 3:58 AM, Matt A. Tobin said:

I got some ideas for branding..

Pale Moon could be called Whistler after the Codename for Windows XP
Basilisk could be called Freestyle the Codename for Windows XP Media Center Edition because of the extra media features and Australis UI

Pale Moon is commonly called New Moon over this board, and I see no reason to move away from this name. Is there any?

Basilisk shall be called Wyvern, just because I played HoMM III much enough to connect it this way.

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3 hours ago, Jody Thornton said:

I have to concede that was quite a kind gesture.  For all I say against you, I'm VERY impressed.  Yet oddly enough, I'm more of the same mindset as you are towards continued XP use.  Nonetheless, it was a very kind gesture you made towards this crew.  Cheers and Merry Christmas!  :)

 

Many older devices lack support for eXecute Disable, which renders them incompatible with with newer versions of Windows. Only those who are fans of planned obsolescence, and landfills full of e-waste, would oppose an effort to keep old operating systems alive.

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4 minutes ago, sparty411 said:

Many older devices lack support for eXecute Disable, which renders them incompatible with with newer versions of Windows. Only those who are fans of planned obsolescence, and landfills full of e-waste, would oppose an effort to keep old operating systems alive.

Well I'm not here to start an argument at all.  So all I was saying is that it's terrific for XP users that they have some options.  Let's leave it at that  :)

 

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3 hours ago, Mcinwwl said:

Pale Moon is commonly called New Moon over this board, and I see no reason to move away from this name.

The name "New Moon" was built into the Pale Moon source repo as a placeholder for anyone making an unofficial build of Pale Moon. It was always recognized as a temporary name.

In the original thread, I and many others made many clever suggestions for a permanent name, but none caught on, so @roytam1 just kept using the New Moon name.

I'm reluctant to restart the cacophony of suggested names again. "Whistler" may not be that inspiring, but it's not bad and fits a theme. Let's get this done at last.

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Well if you don't pick something... and keep using generic branding then it will never be a real project. Real projects have names. I don't care what you call it but as long as you keep calling it by OUR unofficial names it is going to cause confusion with users and I will continue to rail against it until the heat death of the universe because YOU are damaging US.

Show me you want to be taken seriously, that I should respect your accomplishments, or accept my help and then I AM INVESTED. Beyond that.. I dunno what else can be done because you aren't US and you have nothing of your own thus far. That leaves you in limbo and it is sad. It literally makes you lesser than a Firefox rebuild. They at LEAST have names.

Edited by Matt A. Tobin
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11 minutes ago, Matt A. Tobin said:

Well if you don't pick something... and keep using generic branding then it will never be a real project. Real projects have names. I don't care what you call it but as long as you keep calling it by OUR unofficial names it is going to cause confusion with users and I will continue to rail against it until the heat death of the universe because YOU are damaging US.

Show me you want to be taken seriously, that I should respect your accomplishments, or accept my help and then I AM INVESTED. Beyond that.. I dunno what else can be done because you aren't US and you have nothing of your own thus far. That leaves you in limbo and it is sad. It literally makes you lesser than a Firefox rebuild. They at LEAST have names.

Here we go again... so much for the offer to be "friendly and helpful." Just like last time it doesn't appear to be very sincere. :whistle:

And the idea that roytam1 is somehow "damaging" you is ridiculous on its face. Whether you like it or not, he's generating more users for the projects you're involved in. He just happens to make these projects work for platforms you have abandoned, thereby proving your decision to abandon them was arbitrary and unnecessary.

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I don't think being confrontative helps any, I'm sorry to say. I do think ignoring Matt's offer (as in hiding one's head in the sand) leads nowhere. And his offer *was* ignored, while very minor issues continued to be discussed. There's much to gain and nothing to lose in accepting it. My 2¢, of course,,, but this is one occasion I think keeping silent a real bad choice..

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11 minutes ago, LoneCrusader said:

Here we go again... so much for the offer to be "friendly and helpful." Just like last time it doesn't appear to be very sincere. :whistle:

And the idea that roytam1 is somehow "damaging" you is ridiculous on its face. Whether you like it or not, he's generating more users for the projects you're involved in. He just happens to make these projects work for platforms you have abandoned, thereby proving your decision to abandon them was arbitrary and unnecessary.

I really don't see why it is such a big problem to create an original logo/name. @Matt A. Tobin is extending the olive branch, THEN SOME, and being flat out ignored. 

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27 minutes ago, LoneCrusader said:

Here we go again... so much for the offer to be "friendly and helpful." Just like last time it doesn't appear to be very sincere. :whistle:

And the idea that roytam1 is somehow "damaging" you is ridiculous on its face. Whether you like it or not, he's generating more users for the projects you're involved in. He just happens to make these projects work for platforms you have abandoned, thereby proving your decision to abandon them was arbitrary and unnecessary.

Ok.. I just a few posts ago offered to help him simplify his entire process with a unified application repository as well as doing all new branding for four applications WHILE still maintaining the profile directory path already in use. I offered to do ALL THE WORK to accomplish this.. So I don't take to kindly to your assumption of my level of sincerity.

I can totally understand wanting to put off doing branding as long as possible.. Hell I only JUST completed my Official branding for Borealis Navigator as I am planning to make a release of in the near future. I also know how difficult it is to come up with names and logos that are effective as well, though I have an easier time of it than actually implementing it.

The fact is it does still cause confusion and lead to the wrong conclusions from people.. Not a month goes by that at LEAST one person wants something for a "Pale Moon for Windows XP" or whatnot. They don't understand the difference between what roytam1 is doing and what WE are doing. Users using these unofficial builds on Windows XP do nothing for us but take up our time and sabotage our efficiency with dealing with support questions from users who don't know any better. It is hard enough to accomplish when they are using our products.

I gave you a totally unique concept for branding of applications all built by one person using one platform codebase and offered to do the work. I would have thought this would be great since it is obvious roytam1 has no problem whatsoever using other people's names, images, and work to produce what he wants. After all if I had called Borealis and Interlink Neptune and Lonestar respectively with their own artwork as the Unofficial Branding then he would be using it. How is this any different?

So I am left with ONLY two conclusions both of which REALLY suck.. He is too lazy to change it of which I have offered to do it for him OR he is deliberately trying to damage us by continued association of which he and all of you don't believe anyway and I really don't want to believe is true anymore even if it is cause it is depressing.

SO LET'S DO A THING AND FINALLY SORT THIS.

EDIT- IF he doesn't want to use the COMM configuration and he wants to keep everything in the forked platform repo we can do it that way too. I know all the things that need changed and setting git patches for changed paths is easy. Also, I can reverse the alt packaging stuff for you and since you selectively take patches from us anyway you can just skip further ones relating to that.

I can answer questions you may have like regarding the build system, let you know what is happening and why, etc.. All I want in return is for your projects to BE actual projects.

Edited by Matt A. Tobin
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23 minutes ago, dencorso said:

I don't think being confrontative helps any, I'm sorry to say. I do think ignoring Matt's offer (as in hiding one's head in the sand) leads nowhere. And his offer *was* ignored, while very minor issues continued to be discussed. There's much to gain and nothing to lose in accepting it. My 2¢, of course,,, but this is one occasion I think keeping silent a real bad choice..

 

10 minutes ago, sparty411 said:

I really don't see why it is such a big problem to create an original logo/name. @Matt A. Tobin is extending the olive branch, THEN SOME, and being flat out ignored. 

Given Mr. Tobin's past statements, behavior, and attitude, I don't blame roytam1 for ignoring him. Why deal with someone who has gone to such lengths to be a general pain in the arse? I see no incentive whatsoever to take him seriously. What happens the next time he "gets angry" and decides all of this is beneath him? What guarantee does roytam1 or any of us have that this "olive branch" will not simply be jerked away again on a whim? What guarantee does roytam1 or any of the rest of us have that Mr. Tobin will not decide to do something that will cause problems in the future?

I judge people based on what they do, not what they say. So far Mr. Tobin hasn't shown much of anything but contempt for this project and its users. Maybe he will change.. but methinks some of you all are far too trusting, too soon.

----------------------------------------

16 minutes ago, Matt A. Tobin said:

Ok.. I just a few posts ago offered to help him simplify his entire process with a unified application repository as well as doing all new branding for four applications WHILE still maintaining the profile directory path already in use. I offered to do ALL THE WORK to accomplish this.. So I don't take to kindly to your assumption of my level of sincerity.

I can totally understand wanting to put off doing branding as long as possible.. Hell I only JUST completed my Official branding for Borealis Navigator as I am planning to make a release of in the near future. I also know how difficult it is to come up with names and logos that are effective as well, though I have an easier time of it than actually implementing it.

The fact is it does still cause confusion and lead to the wrong conclusions from people.. Not a month goes by that at LEAST one person wants something for a "Pale Moon for Windows XP" or whatnot. They don't understand the difference between what roytam1 is doing and what WE are doing. Users using these unofficial builds on Windows XP do nothing for us but take up our time and sabotage our efficiency with dealing with support questions from users who don't know any better. It is hard enough to accomplish when they are using our products.

I gave you a totally unique concept for branding of applications all built by one person using one platform codebase and offered to do the work. I would have thought this would be great since it is obvious roytam1 has no problem whatsoever using other people's names, images, and work to produce what he wants. After all if I had called Borealis and Interlink Neptune and Lonestar respectively with their own artwork as the Unofficial Branding then he would be using it. How is this any different?

So I am left with ONLY two conclusions both of which REALLY suck.. He is too lazy to change it of which I have offered to do it for him OR he is deliberately trying to damage us by continued association of which he and all of you don't believe anyway and I really don't want to believe is true anymore even if it is cause it is depressing.

SO LET'S DO A THING AND FINALLY SORT THIS.

Most of what I would say at this point I stated above... I will state once again that I think your claim of this project damaging yours in some way is one hundred percent rubbish. In this, your disdain for this project still shines through. And that reason alone is enough for me not to take your "offer" with more than a grain of salt. But in the end the decision is roytam1's. And I will probably reserve further comment until this is "decided" one way or another.

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