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Matt A. Tobin

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Matt A. Tobin last won the day on January 11

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About Matt A. Tobin

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  1. I wanted to update you all that I have not abandoned you all. It's just Christmas night I got VERY VERY ill with a hospital-grade superflu I acquired a few days prior while visiting my father when he was in the hospital. I had a very high 104.5F fever that night and was pretty debilitated for days after as such serious flus tend to do. It has taken me a while to get better and get back into the swing of things. I see that discussion has been fairly constructive given the scope of a public forum so I am positive about the prospects of eventually resolving this. Indeed, I am very positive about the prospects the 2020s are offering in general. Oh I know it will be a lot of hard work and struggle but anything worthwhile always is. ANYWAY, this post is technically irrelevant so I will leave it there. Just wanted to let you know that I haven't just abandoned this or all of you as may or may not have been suggested. I look forward to constructive monitoring
  2. The MOZ_APP_NAME would stay the same of course, that's fine. Same with application.ini who's values failing the existence of some alt build configuration dictate the location of the application profile. SAME goes with NSIS generated installer/uninstaller and helper.exe used by both NSIS and shellservice as well as shellservice its self. Unfortunately, this is set in stone and it is too unreasonable to change that stuff now. Maybe two years ago but not now as it would cause too much end-user trouble. Not to mention it would be annoying from a patch porting point of view. So that's fine. So just need to change the name in branding configure.sh, graphical assets, and l10n. Pretty simple once you have the name and logo. Now, I can sort of dig the circles with lines in em and perhaps do something with the concept though they MAY be a bit abstract. However, I hope that modified Firefox logo is not a serious contender because clearly that would not acceptable to Mozilla as it would get the the drones all fired up in a second and of course blame us not you for it. The general problem with the New Moon branding was it was intended to be basically like the Firefox Nightly branding and while yes it pulled double duty as generic branding anyone could use, it is still intrinsically linked to us and despite the feeling from some people here that there is and never has been any confusion, I can tell you there is.. People know that Pale Moon is the older Firefox-based browser with the interface of Firefox 4-28 and that builds are sometimes called New Moon. But with the divergent path of what continues to happen to support Windows XP what is produced isn't even going to be an unbranded Pale Moon for Windows XP as most people see it. Perhaps that is how you see it but as time goes on the differences mount. Let me put it to you another way, what if we had just kept the original non-trademarked Nightly branding for Pale Moon, both Basilisk's, and you also created your other half-dozen Firefox-based builds.. ALL called Nightly because that is what was there. How could you tell them apart then? Is it reasonable to put the burden on us to explain to people that the Windows XP builds you produce aren't the same as someone else producing Windows 7 unbranded builds or unbranded mac builds which also use the New Moon branding because mac isn't at the official level yet. The un-knowledgeable user who doesn't read more than maybe two sentences of a paragraph would assume New Moon == Pale Moon because they look the same and because despite being referred to as generic branding the name is too unique and intrinsically linked with us. This is the result of a decision made six years ago and it turns out to not have been a very good one on our part. Let me also say again, that this happens in the wild. THERE IS CONFUSION because I have specifically gone out of my way to berate and s*** on the confused user because it p***ed me the hell off and does every single time. Should I? No. Do I? Yeah. Should I continue to do so.. Well despite what one may conclude I actually don't know.. I do know that I don't really want to be angry about it anymore. I do know that over the past two years it has accomplished nothing. I also know that roytam1 took the unofficial branding as-is but hasn't been bothered to change it for whatever reason that may be. I do know I am a half-way decent designer and have the technical knowledge to implement it easily for roytam1 to slot into place. I also figured I had nothing to loose by str8 up offering to do it instead of expecting someone else to. A very common situation I find my self in a lot these days actually. I talked, bitched, complained, pleaded with and begged SeaMonkey for almost 10 years to not turn out the way it turned out and it accomplished nothing but in the Pale Moon project and beyond to the Unified XUL Platform, lots of things have gotten done through hard a** work via cooperation, coordination, and discussion and maybe that should be applied elsewhere. Especially to places that have historically annoyed the hell out of me for whatever real or imagined reason. After all, it is a process to better ones self and help make world at large better too. Can't have it all in a day but you can't have anything if you don't try. So I am trying (and yes there is likely a joke in there). Besides, I can't keep calling the paradigm "new" if it is the same old crap, eh?
  3. I'm sorry LoneCrusader but by invoking the bsd-wip github issue you have lost any credibility among any of us over here. I will take responsibility for what I said on the Pale Moon forums and in my channel. I even take responsibility for what I said in that github issue BUT in THAT CASE I was in the right and there is no denying that from any rational mind. Could a word order change have not evoked such a disproportionate response from them? I have asked that question many times since then. I want to say yes but I know those bsd people are batshit insane. They don't respect intellectual property OR software licenses wanting to treat everything as public domain and/or theirs without cause and are at a level of fanaticism that outshines even my self. So no. You don't get to cite that as a valid argument against me to promote blatant anti-Tobinism. I won't stand for it. You're done. Fortunately for the rest of everyone who isn't you, I am not going to let that impact the start of what I hope will be better times. So to everyone else, nothing has been impacted by LoneCrusader's machinations. I stand by what I have offered and suggested.
  4. Thank you. Well I have been awake for about 24 hours. I'll do some thinking and conceptualizing when I next awake.. You guys let me know what you decide on the direction of the all this.
  5. You have to think though.. Names need to be able to be visually represented.. With what I suggest it not only follows a theme for those in the know.. It also stands on its own as basic concepts that can be represented easily. Whistler, a mountain Freestyle, some sort of abstracty glyph Neptune, Blue planet or perhaps the God Neptune's trident and Lonestar some sort of star likely akin to a sherrif's badge.. put it on an envelope or stamp or something.. That is what I was thinking.
  6. The largest the logo icon would be anywhere is 256x256 which is the second largest size. At that resolution it doesn't look as chunky as it does in the 512 size. But let's see..
  7. Edited previous post with a wordmark.. Notice the font THE REAL QUESTION IS.. can I do half as good three more times AND will people LIKE it.. hmmmmmm.
  8. Well.. I created an icon for the Whistler Branding which would be used on Pale Moon... It is based on a public domain photo of the actual whistler mountain.
  9. We can't be expected to support Windows XP but you guys want to and have positioned your self to. The breakdown happened over this branding situation and everything else came from that. It really isn't something that can be overlooked because there just has to be a way definitive way to differentiate what are otherwise very similar but different projects with mutually exclusive goals and vision. If that one root point is resolved then on-going cooperation is possible even if it is in an advisory or resource role. Not born out of threats and what is now mutual bul***** but because we do have some common interests but aren't, even inadvertently, encroaching on each other's territory. I can make this happen and work if the one point above anything else is resolved. We are approching a new year and a new decade AND a new development milestone. Surely we all can have this too.
  10. There is a whole loose association of drones out there that all day long and everywhere they can they repeat the mantra of "Old and Insecure" about Pale Moon and allied projects. Some with a little more brain power might use the phrase "Poor imitation" when referring to us and we have indeed made SOME bad decisions over the years and some six years ago a number of rookie mistakes when we declared independence for version 25. There is nothing wrong with that if you learn from them. s*** happens. Least we forget that the moebius codebase for us was a 7 month mistake in that unless we compromised fundamentally the code for other applications aside from the Firefox application code native to that codebase none of it would ever happen. Just porting Pale Moon to moebius would have gone too far in what had to change to make it run and it would have been a massive disaster and might have killed the project out right when said and done. Now I know roytam1 is producing builds of that codebase so you might not know or see that but that is only because the firefox application code matches and is native to it. After 53 stuff went nuts with several refactor storms of fundamental code in how XUL Applications work. That is why UXP was restarted.
  11. My contempt has ALWAYS been based on the fact that using the unofficial names for our projects especially "New Moon" causes confusion and some even attribute what roytam1 has done to us. Wanting to go your own way but not even taking that first step of rebranding has always irked me. That is what started all of this. It is the one request we have had from the start that roytam1 has to this day not fulfilled. "New Moon" specifically is too intrinsically tied to the Pale Moon project to maintain any pretense of not being affiliated with or representing that project. That is why for my unofficial branding I choose EXTREMELY generic names of "Browser" and "MailNews" so there is less confusion when someone goes off on their own and produces builds not following my vision or representative of my projects. Indeed, that was also partly motivated by you guys as well. I thought if I made them hopelessly generic that you would change them to something unique but that never happened which is just silly. Who wants to set Browser as their default Browser anyway? Yeah, you guys p*** me off because I see a lot of really rookie mistakes and some bad decisions in your development while still via user ignorance being associated with us and what we are doing. It also p***es me off that this is perhaps the fourth time I have offered some level of help and have not been taken up on it. I offered to share the secrets of how to do things like branding, as you said, before and it was ignored. After the second time y'all were kicked off the Pale Moon forums because EVEN IF you don't intend it it from OUR perspective looks like you guys just want to run off our work and reputation (and until kicked off) our infrastructure rather than stand as your own thing and accomplishment. You project the appearance of leeches or a poor imitation of what we have been doing, for five plus years. This has ALWAYS been the issue with rebuilds and minor mods but you ARE more that that.. With all the builds you guys produce from all over the spectrum.. Why do you guys not want to make it your own? You don't own "New Moon" it isn't exclusive to you and you aren't associated with any other "New Moon"s or "Serpent"s out there. The one thing I have always said was that if you were going to do this you should do it properly and not half-assed. I can sleep a lot better if someone I believe is doing something half-assed isn't using terms that are associated with me or what I do. Your Platform Codebase isn't JUST UXP with XP Compatibility it is something fundamentally different than what our vision is.. Same goes with the applications. I see that roytam1 has reverted or restored some stuff from the Navigator that I removed or changed. You guys have created something other.. Something new.. Whether I like it or not is immaterial. I dislike Basilisk as a project and application, I don't like Australis, I don't like WebRTC, and I don't like DRM and YET I am still contributing to it. I haven't USED Pale Moon as a web browser for the majority of 2019 and I am still doing important work on Pale Moon. So even if I don't specifically believe in what you guys are doing I can still help in some way to make it better. If you get unique branding then the NUMBER ONE REASON I HAVE against you no longer exists. There would be no confusion and no longer any perceived damage or association regardless if it exists or not and I can finally consider you guys as going your own way and doing your own thing. You talk about actions and history well when I say I am going to do a thing.. I do that thing. See: The previous six years. Now I am not going to do it unless I know he will accept it. I had quite enough of that back at the SeaMonkey project. But he says go for it.. I will accomplish. You can bet on that. Afterward, whatever happens can be taken a day at a time. If as you say, I don't do it well then I have lost all credibility on making any argument against you on that basis. So it is in my best interest to accomplish. If I do it then p*** off back to BinOC Land and never show up again.. You still have it. You have nothing to loose and I have things on the line by offering and agreeing. There is no downside.
  12. Ok.. I just a few posts ago offered to help him simplify his entire process with a unified application repository as well as doing all new branding for four applications WHILE still maintaining the profile directory path already in use. I offered to do ALL THE WORK to accomplish this.. So I don't take to kindly to your assumption of my level of sincerity. I can totally understand wanting to put off doing branding as long as possible.. Hell I only JUST completed my Official branding for Borealis Navigator as I am planning to make a release of in the near future. I also know how difficult it is to come up with names and logos that are effective as well, though I have an easier time of it than actually implementing it. The fact is it does still cause confusion and lead to the wrong conclusions from people.. Not a month goes by that at LEAST one person wants something for a "Pale Moon for Windows XP" or whatnot. They don't understand the difference between what roytam1 is doing and what WE are doing. Users using these unofficial builds on Windows XP do nothing for us but take up our time and sabotage our efficiency with dealing with support questions from users who don't know any better. It is hard enough to accomplish when they are using our products. I gave you a totally unique concept for branding of applications all built by one person using one platform codebase and offered to do the work. I would have thought this would be great since it is obvious roytam1 has no problem whatsoever using other people's names, images, and work to produce what he wants. After all if I had called Borealis and Interlink Neptune and Lonestar respectively with their own artwork as the Unofficial Branding then he would be using it. How is this any different? So I am left with ONLY two conclusions both of which REALLY suck.. He is too lazy to change it of which I have offered to do it for him OR he is deliberately trying to damage us by continued association of which he and all of you don't believe anyway and I really don't want to believe is true anymore even if it is cause it is depressing. SO LET'S DO A THING AND FINALLY SORT THIS. EDIT- IF he doesn't want to use the COMM configuration and he wants to keep everything in the forked platform repo we can do it that way too. I know all the things that need changed and setting git patches for changed paths is easy. Also, I can reverse the alt packaging stuff for you and since you selectively take patches from us anyway you can just skip further ones relating to that. I can answer questions you may have like regarding the build system, let you know what is happening and why, etc.. All I want in return is for your projects to BE actual projects.
  13. Well if you don't pick something... and keep using generic branding then it will never be a real project. Real projects have names. I don't care what you call it but as long as you keep calling it by OUR unofficial names it is going to cause confusion with users and I will continue to rail against it until the heat death of the universe because YOU are damaging US. Show me you want to be taken seriously, that I should respect your accomplishments, or accept my help and then I AM INVESTED. Beyond that.. I dunno what else can be done because you aren't US and you have nothing of your own thus far. That leaves you in limbo and it is sad. It literally makes you lesser than a Firefox rebuild. They at LEAST have names.
  14. I got some ideas for branding.. Pale Moon could be called Whistler after the Codename for Windows XP Basilisk could be called Freestyle the Codename for Windows XP Media Center Edition because of the extra media features and Australis UI Borealis could be called Neptune the Codename for a developmental predecessor of Windows XP Interlink could be called Lonestar the Codename for Windows XP TabletPC Edition (writing, email, get it?) These are all UXP based applications for Windows XP and there you go a theme for all your forks of them. OH just call Basilisk 55, call it the codename for the repo.. Moebius/Mobius. Good name at any rate. Again for the four UXP applications.. I am willing to do the work for you, get em all in one repo, do the branding (yes I will keep the appdata paths as they are to avoid profile issues) and gift wrap it for you for Christmas. What do you say? EDIT: Thank you for removing the official branding from the modified-uxp repository. ALSO, if you go forward with this I will list you on thereisonlyxul.org in a special section for Windows XP users.
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