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Windows 10 - Deeper Impressions


xper

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Perhaps Classic Shell needs to grow up to become an entire desktop replacement.  Soup to nuts, done right, all that's needed to provide a tight, slick work environment that replaces all the cancer that's growing at Microsoft.

Where does "operating system" end and "application environment" begin?  There's a line in there somewhere, and Microsoft has stepped over it - way over it.

Would a desktop replacement, while technically possible, ever gain traction?  Classic Shell itself, though free and far and away better than anything Microsoft has ever coded and likely used by hundreds of thousands if not millions, isn't used by billions.  Why?

-Noel

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Latest build has broken all my custom context menus, they now result in a black screen and explorer restarts, I did manage to get some of them working again like this one for example.

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Directory\Background\shell\Theme Settings]
"ControlPanelName"="Microsoft.Personalization"
"Position"="bottom"
"Icon"=hex(2):25,00,73,00,79,00,73,00,74,00,65,00,6d,00,72,00,6f,00,6f,00,74,\
  00,25,00,5c,00,73,00,79,00,73,00,74,00,65,00,6d,00,33,00,32,00,5c,00,74,00,\
  68,00,65,00,6d,00,65,00,63,00,70,00,6c,00,2e,00,64,00,6c,00,6c,00,2c,00,2d,\
  00,31,00,00,00

[HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\Directory\Background\shell\Theme Settings\command]
"DelegateExecute"="{06622D85-6856-4460-8DE1-A81921B41C4B}"

Any shortcut that doesn't use DelegateExecute results in explorer restarting.

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7 hours ago, JorgeA said:

... BTW how did you arrange it so that the video would start at the desired time? Pretty cool.

Just add &t=XXmYYs to the video url, where XX is the minutes and YY the seconds you want the video to start at.

Or add #t=ZZZZ , where ZZZZ is the total amount of seconds to the point where you want the video to start at.

In this case,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwlQvjwYFEM

would become:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwlQvjwYFEM&t=53m10s

or:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwlQvjwYFEM#t=3190
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4 hours ago, NoelC said:

Perhaps Classic Shell needs to grow up to become an entire desktop replacement.  Soup to nuts, done right, all that's needed to provide a tight, slick work environment that replaces all the cancer that's growing at Microsoft.

Where does "operating system" end and "application environment" begin?  There's a line in there somewhere, and Microsoft has stepped over it - way over it.

Would a desktop replacement, while technically possible, ever gain traction?  Classic Shell itself, though free and far and away better than anything Microsoft has ever coded and likely used by hundreds of thousands if not millions, isn't used by billions.  Why?

-Noel

I've never used it, but is Classic Shell an actual shell? Because the OS, we know, is the underlying portion that you boot and in Windows, Explorer.exe is the shell.

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No it is just a free app that complements the Explorer shell so many of the things Microsoft removed starting in Vista, Windows 7 and Windows 8 are put back by it - parts of the shell such as Start Menu, Explorer features that were gone and some IE features. Tihiy here with OldNewExplorer and StartIsBack does something very similar. Every feature is configurable so you can add just the stuff you want.

Started in Nov. 2009, now it crossed 50-70 million downloads obviously because it's free and fast, pays attention to getting usability right augmented by extensive customization. We don't track or care about exact download count because the goal is to make the user not feel s*** (which Microsoft constantly does to its user base). It has around 500,000 downloads per month now even after Windows 10 is out with a Start menu.

It started as a Classic Start menu (Windows 2000-style) because Windows 7 got rid of that. Then it added an Up button and the rest is history. :D Over time it evolved to add all Start Menu features of Windows 7, Vista, XP, 2000, 95 etc. First it was hosted at SourceForge, then at MediaFire, now FossHub so we lost the exact count. Why I think it is popular amongst power users and IT pros is because of its customization, it puts the user in control of at least some aspects of his Desktop. Windows 8 gave it a massive boost in popularity. 

Edited by xpclient
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there could be another way

yank out .net 2 completely (4 as well if present), as MIL and DWM depend on it, without it OS will revert to "native" look which is the good old classic, even XP engine would be disabled
then you'd have all your "functions" within OS, just without forced metro or aero look

Edited by vinifera
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Well, the MacBook has done it again.  Win 10 fast insider update 14361 cleanly installed!  I noticed the version is now 1607.  I'm beginning to wonder if the MS developers are using Apple hardware for this creation?  Windows 10 just likes this Apple.  Wait, is that Steve rolling over?  Now if I could just get Ghostery Extension to install on Edge.

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It has come to a time where, I am seriously looking at a dual boot under 10" tablet/PC

Android software has matured (in my opinion) to an early style of excellence that I now need a hybrid x86 tablet to run some apps!

Many things need access to basically x86 architecture for a ton of legacy Win32 stuff I need to run, but now it has come to pass that some newer software is for Android.  The new open OS.

Lately despite Intel cutting back on some product lines. These dual OS Chinese tablets are receiving considerable praise for their abilities, but the best part is a simple dual boot option. Emulation has been a favorite pastime for many years... but native execution is even more awesome.

Lets embrace the new wave. Since the only way to to run all the best software, is to run the right hardware to rule them all!

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On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 11:10 AM, xpclient said:

[Re Classic Shell]

Started in Nov. 2009, now it crossed 50-70 million downloads obviously because it's free and fast, pays attention to getting usability right augmented by extensive customization. We don't track or care about exact download count because the goal is to make the user not feel s*** (which Microsoft constantly does to its user base). It has around 500,000 downloads per month now even after Windows 10 is out with a Start menu.

Given that I've probably downloaded it maybe 25 times, that's still probably a few million unique users.  Very impressive.

But why isn't it a billion?

1.  Win 7 delivered a usable, if inferior start menu.  Personally I've been using Classic Shell since the disappearance of the Classic Start Menu from Microsoft.  Seems to me I even used Classic Shell in Vista, but I'm not sure.  That was a long time ago.

2.  People sometimes don't trust free software.  I was fortunate to have been around back when Ivo posted the source files, and I vetted the whole thing.  I doubt very seriously that he's put any malware in it since that time, but there really is no way to know for sure without the sources.

3.  Not everyone knows about it because they're not being beaten about the head and ears by advertising.  Not everyone educates themselves as well as we do here.  Not everyone realizes there is MUCH better software out there than what Microsoft provides.

The limited use is most certainly is NOT because of any functional deficiencies or ease-of-use problems.

-Noel

Edited by NoelC
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16 minutes ago, NoelC said:

Given that I've probably downloaded it maybe 25 times, that's still probably a few million unique users.  Very impressive.

But why isn't it a billion?

1.  Win 7 delivered a usable, if inferior start menu.  Personally I've been using Classic Shell since the disappearance of the Classic Start Menu from Microsoft.  Seems to me I even used Classic Shell in Vista, but I'm not sure.  That was a long time ago.

2.  People sometimes don't trust free software.  I was fortunate to have been around back when Ivo posted the source files, and I vetted the whole thing.  I doubt very seriously that he's put any malware in it since that time, but there really is no way to know for sure without the sources.

3.  Not everyone knows about it because they're not being beaten about the head and ears by advertising.  Not everyone educates themselves as well as we do here.  Not everyone realizes there is MUCH better software out there than what Microsoft provides.

The limited use is most certainly is NOT because of any functional deficiencies or ease-of-use problems.

-Noel

Hi Noel!

I think we need to get this into some sort of perspective....

Millions of users go to work each day put on their computers and work with the program software the company uses....their skills never get better than that....they go home and put on the computer at home...they have learnt how to use the "E" internet explorer....little pun because 90% of my customers don't know the difference between internet explorer and Windows XP, 7. 8 or 8.1....I have learned to my cost that trying to educate them past such simple tasks is a meaningless waste of my time and energy..

They go to the local store to buy a computer and they get Windows 8.1 and now it is mostly windows 10....the store sales people are not interested in telling their customers about software like classic shell because it is outside of the job description....I hasten to add the local stores that help start computers for their customers have learnt about Classic Shell because I have enlightened them to its existance...

I continually get new customers coming with their Windows 8.0, 8.1 and 10 to me to fix them because they have heard that I install Windows 7 on computers and they know how to use Windows 7...this has of course something to do with what they use at work but not the fact I install Windows 7 on computers...in this context they mean I install Classic Shell which will give them a Windows 7 menu etc...I hasten to add even if I explain that it is a bit of software that makes it easier for them to recognise windows as they know it...they still think I have installed Windows 7....go figure...

I will also add my knowledge of the ins and outs of computers in Windows is far less than a lot of you guys...I still learn new stuff every day and am grateful for the help I get here when I get stuck...

If we look at a lot of the waffle I have written....perhaps it isn't so strange that Classic Shell is unknown to millions of potential users....;)

bookie32

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I think we're in agreement.  I did say, "Not everyone educates themselves as well as we do here".

I'm not sure what the ratio of "complete dummies" out there is to "technical users".  Maybe it really is 99% to 1% - which would help explain the numbers xpclient mentioned. 

Somehow I don't think the ratio is that one-sided.  Remember, your customers are those who can't solve problems on their own and have SOMEHOW (probably because Macs are more expensive) ended up in the Windows world.

-Noel

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Most people I run into on a daily basis have no knowledge of a computer system aside from "I push button, it turn on, I click shortcut, program opens, I do what I 'want', I push button, it turn off." I'm a university student so I suppose its to be expected, however as many have said I'm definitely not as knowledgeable as many here or the computer science/engineering students. That being said....... honestly I don't believe the ratio to be 99% to 1% in terms of people being sheeple that are led to, let's say windows 10, so much as its 99% to 1% of people who don't know what they want and generally accept anything so long as they're familiar with it. In other words most people just want something that (somewhat) works and looks familiar to what they used to use because they have no clue that it can be so much more; simply informing them (as has been the case with many who ask me about computers) about this at least interests them to want to tweak their systems, though because of lack of knowledge, time, etc ask others to do it for them. Because of this, anyone who slightly knows a little more than the average user is pretty much revered as a tech guru as they have more vision as to what they want the system to do rather than use it for facebook/twitter/social media and the occasional word document. Just my opinion on the matter though.

Edited by Shining Escuridao
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However, that kind of users tend to disappear in the near future, because smartphones are already almost enough to cater for their needs.

Soon enough, only those who really need a computer will be using one...  yet, I´m unsure whether there'll still be Windows 10(+) by then.

Of course, there´ll still be Windows 7, 8.1 and XP, in that order, but EoS and user-supported.

Will MS really handle all the remaining customers to Apple and unix in a silver plate?

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