Banking apps and their root checking bul*****

[D.Draker]

On 11/3/2020 at 1:52 PM, UCyborg said:

Not just banks.

I always thought of smartphones as complementary pocket computers. It seems cultural shift started to occur at some point that they became center of everything.

Slovenian government was going to make an app ...

I assume the local population is totally ok with this . No reaction at all . They are all agree to be under full control ? BTW , in my country , esp. in big cities , if you don't have an ippone , preferably the latest , you're a loser and even below average females won't look at you . I used to date a younger girl , 8-9 years ago , when I had a good smartphone . I'll tell a funny story to cheer everyone up. I had a decent job that days , I could afford some things , just some . I don't know why she assumed that I'm rich . So we went on a couple of dates  , then I invited her home . She didn't like my house , I could tell . We sat down on my couch to have a couple of drinks and watch some film . I turned on my PC with Core Quad and Windows Vista , oh man , you should've seen the look on her face , like I'm a vagabond , beggar , retard or something. And that was more than 8 years ago ! What would she think of me now ? I can't even imagine . Yeah , I'm still using Vista and like it very much. And I don't use a smartphone , but I think the NWO will force them as yet another mandatory here too and very soon . Excuse me if I've made mistakes , English is my third Language , I've studied Dutch at school.

Edited December 19, 2020 by D.Draker
a rookie typo

[dencorso]

<off-topic> Your English is great! Before you ask, it's my 3rd language, too... but my 2nd one (Italian) I've used so rarely most of my life that I'm sure I wield English much better than I do Italian. Except for 1st languages (when one uses them day-to-day), practice counts more than anything else. </off-topic>

 While around an iPhone is really for the rich or those wishing to pass for rich, it's become impossible not to have a smartphone (usually a Samsung) for banking, even for those, like me, who prefer to do it on the desktop: one once could get banks to give one a token-generator, but lately all them moved on to what they call "app authentication", hence tranferring the cost of aquiring/upkeeping working hardware to the user. My own solution was to buy a used "Samsung J2 Prime" (android 6, out of production already), reset it to factory specs and use it for my banking needs, while leaving it home always, unless when I need to take it to the bank to validate their app (happens sometimes). For everything else I need a cell phone for, I always bring with me my trusty Nokia C2-01, and that's all! Of course, answering in public to such a phone causes from hilariety to pity for me, but I really don't give a damn. Then again, I'm almost 60, so it's mostly attributed to senility. 

[jaclaz]

1 minute ago, dencorso said:

For everything else I need a cell phone for, I always bring with me my trusty Nokia C2-01, and that's all! Of course, answering in public to such a phone causes from hilariety to pity for me, but I really don't give a damn. Then again, I'm almost 60, so it's mostly attributed to senility. 

Well, great minds think alike , this is my everyday phone:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_1280

but, since smartphone "keyboard" is too d@mn small for my fingers (and display too d@mn small for my eyes) the portable device that always stays at home is a small, obviously el-cheapo tablet, I used to have a Chuwi 8 (nice little thingy, dual booting Android and Windows 10, but it died) and now I have a Lenovo 7" (TB-7305F) which is just about the right size.

jaclaz

 

 

[XPerceniol]

~~That was a funny story D and D

<off-topic> Same here, guys, I use a LG442BG 'pay as you go' Flip phone - I've NEVER owned, and have no interest in ever owning a smartphone. I've tried out other peoples and I don't like it. Don't like the text; nor do I like the sound. I got used to pressing the phone right up against my ear and the person at the other end just keeps say "huh" all the time, I don't have that issue with my flip phone. Also; there is this lag I experienced on a smart phone when speaking that I also never had with my trusty old phone.

Ok, I'll also share something very off topic others might consider a bit odd/funny.

I see people al the time while walking around town with earbuds connected to their smartphone. Me.. my earbuds are connected to a tiny offline mp3 player HA!! Even better, sometimes I will also walk around with a (wait for it..) cassette player Walkman. I'm almost 48 and I could truly care less what other people think :) </off-topic>

Edited December 19, 2020 by XPerceniol

[Win10-Hater]

On 9/1/2020 at 3:26 AM, UCyborg said:

What a load of crap! So one's supposed to just buy new phone for one stupid app...which could function on the old one...if it wanted to.

Planned obsolescence in general is really strong there...let's buy a new smartphone every year or two. New one would just be bigger, clunkier and preloaded with tons of crap I don't want or need, that can't be removed without root access and since Google's fixing SafetyNet...

End of rant!

What the h***?

It's somewhat like Apple' restrictions that don't allow 2012-era MacBooks to run MacOS Big Sur!! 

On 11/4/2020 at 2:22 AM, UCyborg said:

Not just banks.

I always thought of smartphones as complementary pocket computers. It seems cultural shift started to occur at some point that they became center of everything.

Slovenian government was going to make an app that warns you if you've been in proximity of someone infected with SARS-CoV-2 mandatory to use, though realization failed.

PS: old way to access my bank's site still works, it was supposed to stop working with November. I imagine getting people to switch from the old trusted way isn't a smooth process.

Same here. I always thought of smartphones as computers in essential, replacing desktops and laptops when we were away from them. Now everything has moved to the 'modern mobile first ' trend. Don't you agree?

Not meaning to insult my country in any way, but I was thinking, Indian government made an app to track COVID-19 cases nearby that always showed the security status as Safe, even when there were patients in nearby houses. And this was made mandatory once lockdown was lifted!!! What is this??

[Gansangriff]

On 12/20/2020 at 3:02 AM, Win10-Hater said:

What is this??

Ridiculous! Wasting money from the people who work hard to build a technology, that can't reach the one's who are truly endangered by the illness called Covid19. The old staff! The retired ones! Usually, they don't have a smartphone, and therefore can't be traced. What a well thought plan!
 
As we can see, the true virus is worldwide goverment stupidity. Spreads via television, radio, newspapers and the internet.

On 12/19/2020 at 5:29 PM, dencorso said:

but lately all them moved on to what they call "app authentication"

Is that true? Aren't there any banks at all at your place, that let you do your online banking properly on a computer? Without smartphones needed? I opened my bank account three years ago and it was still possible to open an offline account, which would have cost a bit more, because less things are automated. But the online banking is a proper thing without smartphones. If a smartphone would be required for online banking, I'd switch to an offline bank. Absolute No-Go.

Wait, I've thought a little bit about this. Actually, there is a root checking taking place on my bank account too. But it is send via SMS! Old technology, you know.

Therefore I can still use a Sony Ericsson from 2008. Drops into puddles, drops into toilets, drops on the floor, still operates. The battery in it lasts longer than these modern wipe-o-phones. And you can even exchange it (!!!), when it's broken. I, and only I as the user of the technology, will decide when to retire it! Not you, Apple and Google! Fortuneately alternatives like the finnish Jolla phone exist. A Sailfish OS device would be the only compromise I'd be willing to take.

 

(Edit: Excuse me, I misunderstood the term "root checking" as checking, where the the owner of the bank account is. So that the bank knows, where the root of the login came from. But no, it's checking if a phone was "rooted", improved by the user.)

Edited December 23, 2020 by Gansangriff
Thank you for clarifying the term "Root Checking"

[dencorso]

Yeah, well... to be precise, just after they stopped providing the physical tokens, thare was a thing they called "SMS token" that was just as you described,,, but not anymore: no they've all moved into the future already (all those SMSs cost the banks something, after all, while their own apps cost them next to nothing, in comparison)! Ain't it a beaut? They outsource next to all their costs to the customer!

[UCyborg]

Didn't mention this yet, but at some later point, I've confirmed that the app was only picking up on SELinux status somehow, so removing Magisk for the activation process was unnecessary. Maybe the more accurate description is that permissive SELinux lets the app see something it doesn't like, but I'm unable to confirm that theory.

I'd report the issue to Magisk developer to help improve MagiskHide, but unless you actually know the technicalities on how some app is picking that your device is not "clean" (https://github.com/topjohnwu/Magisk/issues/1152), it's pointless.

Some banks still send you the SMS with the code to confirm it's really you rather than rely on the app. In my case, the reliability of the particular app is also a problem. You don't get a lot of bad user reviews on Google Play unless your app is really fishy.

4 hours ago, Gansangriff said:

Actually, there is a root checking taking place on my bank account too.

The title of this topic refers to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooting_(Android) Financial apps don't like rooted phones.

 

Regarding COVID-19 app in this country, they called it #OstaniZdrav (translates to #StayHealthy) and since 14th December, if you cross your municipality's border and your reason is not one of the allowed exceptions for which you have a confirmation like a permit from your employer, you're permitted to move around if you have the activated app on your phone. If a cop pulls you over and you have neither, you're either warned or pay a fine, then sent back to where you came from.

There are reported reliability issues with the app, a lot of people don't have the smartphone, others don't have the phone that would support the app (it requires Android 6.0+), it's considered unconstitutional since there's no alternative for those that can't use it for one reason or another etc. etc.

The whole crisis has turned into a political game and people have had bad attitude since the beginning. Your typical Slovene's mentality, even when reasonable measures were just recommended rather than enforced: "It's recommended, therefore, it only applies to others, not me.". They've opened up certain shops/services temporarily recently until the holidays and of course people rushed there in big numbers as usual. Third wave is already anticipated for the next year. Slovenia is currently at the top in the deaths per million (last 7 days) criteria, according to this: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

App or no app, I don't think it matters at this point.

[jaclaz]

Ow, come on, mobile and bank apps security is so high ...

... what can possibly go wrong?

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/12/evil-mobile-emulator-farms-used-to-steal-millions-from-us-and-eu-banks/

jaclaz

[Dixel]

13 hours ago, UCyborg said:

Financial apps don't like rooted phones.

Banking sector is being heavily regulated by governments , right ? So write to the bank and demand to show you the >federal< law which clearly states that this form  of identification is required. I'm guessing there will be none . As my understanding goes, your country is in the EU , so file a complaint to Brussels , BELGIUM .

Also , I think we need to stop being on their leash . Today we do what they want , tomorrow it will identification by DNA , have your tried using ordinary paper money ?

Official links and info from their page below :

"EU policy areas with a direct effect on the rights of European consumers, such as banking..."

https://ec.europa.eu/info/policies/consumers/consumer-protection_en

You have the right (Article 227 TFEU) to submit a petition to the European Parliament :

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/citizen/index_en.htm

If you consider that the European Commission has not dealt with your request properly, you may contact the European Ombudsman(Articles 24 and 228 TFEU).

http://www.ombudsman.europa.eu/home.faces

[jaclaz]

Dixel, take it easy.

The norm exists, it is called PSD2:

 Payment Services Directive 2 (PSD2): DIRECTIVE 2015/2366/EU (PSD2)

https://eba.europa.eu/regulation-and-policy/single-rulebook/interactive-single-rulebook/5402

it is the way it has been (and will be) implemented, particularly regarding SCA (Strong Customer Authentication) which is debatable.

jaclaz

[D.Draker]

On 12/21/2020 at 2:36 AM, jaclaz said:

Dixel, take it easy.

The norm exists, it is called PSD2:

 Payment Services Directive 2 (PSD2): DIRECTIVE 2015/2366/EU (PSD2)

https://eba.europa.eu/regulation-and-policy/single-rulebook/interactive-single-rulebook/5402

it is the way it has been (and will be) implemented, particularly regarding SCA (Strong Customer Authentication) which is debatable.

jaclaz

Dixel is right . It's not >federal< law. What a hybrid times we are living in . Half-laws , somewhat-laws , para-laws , half-measures , hypocrisy all around. 

But most don't mind and will obey anything. Boycott them.

Edited December 24, 2020 by D.Draker
removed bold fonts that jaclaz didn't like

[Dixel]

“The doctrine of  blind obedience and unqualified submission to any human power…

…is the doctrine of  despotism.”

- Angelina Grimke. American abolitionist, political activist, women's rights advocate.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Dixel

[jaclaz]

The EU is as much "federal" as it can be.

jaclaz

[Dixel]

3 hours ago, jaclaz said:

The EU is as much "federal" as it can be.

jaclaz

Hello , I'm having a really hard time understanding what are you trying to suggest to this fella by saying this ? It means he just needs to obey any "directive" ? Of course , I'm sorry in advance , if I made a wrong assumption . Though , you may want to know that directives (even federal) are not federal laws . https://www.dailyleader.com/2016/06/02/myers-federal-directive-is-not-law/

And this is regarding EU directives in particular.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directive_(European_Union)

"Directives normally leave member states with a certain amount of leeway as to the exact rules to be adopted..."

So again , directives are not federal laws. And , as a citizen , he supposed to obey federal laws . Let him write to the bank and demand to show the >federal< law , which clearly states that this form  of identification is required.