On 6/29/2020 at 3:30 PM, NT 6.0 said:

Wow! What a long and thoughtful post. I'd like to voice my opinion, or to be exact, share my knowledge with you. Flat Design is not something for everyone - neither is it for me - but here it is Microsoft itself that started this trend. It started with Windows 8..and it changed the standard design language for quite a few years. As we all know, the reasoning behind that is mostly scaling. Scaling marble and wood or glass textures across multiple devices does not work. And for Microsoft, that was a huge deal. Their idea was (and is) to make Windows an all-rounder. A platform that works with touch inputs as well as with classic mice and keyboards. That means that there are many different sizes of displays and that there must also be a focus on touch functionality.

I don't consider myself someone who likes Apple. But here I have to give them credit for once: Apple understands that there cannot be the same OS for devices that mainly rely on touchscreens and devices that are meant to be used with classical input types. So they have MacOS and IOS, and it works. No bulky buttons, no unnatural movements (like swiping with a mouse), etc.

There is nothing wrong with the old. But I fear it is simply in our nature that we continue to evolve, try out new things and therefore change. I am not someone who necessarily likes that idea, but it is a fact. I would much rather use Vista than 10, but the evolution must go on. You could argue that Windows 3.1 was good enough already, why did they have to introduce a start menu? What is it with that taskbar? If Microsoft would have stopped innovating, we would still be stuck there - assuming that no one else would have done that, which is highly unlikely. It lies like the process that some changes are good..some are not. But to find that out, you have to try it and see what happens. Without this general approach to anything, our society would be nowhere close to where it is today. Another thing that I have noticed is that with time passing, you are simply required to get accustomed to tech. You need to do certain things online, you NEED to learn how to use a computer properly, etc. I am not supportive of that idea, but that is simply how our modern society works. If you want to hop onto the train, you will have to accept these principles. Society is merciless to those who do not want to change - in certain cases, I included. As it is generally assumed that you know how e.g. Windows works, Microsoft has decided to streamline Windows to make it simpler and faster to use. Windows exist for quite a while now, so it is assumed that we know how to do certain things, like navigating Windows without everything having a separate text that explains what this and that does. That is why skeuomorphism initially existed; to make the computing experience more natural. But now, after the internet and computers existing for a while now, it is generally believed that we know enough about these things. So that e.g. skeuomorphism is not necessary any longer, as it was meant to be a feature mainly, a helper so to say. But as you can see, we humans tend to get bored with staring at the same thing over and over again...welcome neumorphism. If you are not a part of the group that constantly evolves together with society and tech hand in hand, you are out of luck. It is sad how our world works. Do you want this job? Can't use a computer? 100 others can. Bye-bye. Changing this is virtually impossible, it is always about progress and progressing and there is not much if any room for anything else. I wish it was different, but it's not. So I have come to accept that. All while trying to do the things I like the way I LIKE them to do. E.g. by having a notebook with W10 for work and trying to install Vista on my machine at home - with which I have not been successful so far.

And regarding all the other numerous issues, that Windows 10 has; as long as we consumers accept it and deal with it, nothing will change. We would have to boycott W10, avoid it. The issue is that we start to depend on things. We can't boycott W10, e.g. I have to go to work and use it there. Or buy a PC with it preinstalled, or update it, because my boss requires it. Maybe because certain software or functionality is needed. It's a vicious circle. For most, it is not worth to make such compromises. And if you do, you know that you will not be missed. Because others will do it instead of you. I fear it's just how it is..I wish it was different, but it isn't.

I think this time it is different. There is really a lot of backlash against Windows 10, and really Windows 8, that has just never been the case with previous version of Windows. Yeah, there was Vista backlash, but people got over it, and Vista itself wasn't bad at all. Same thing with XP when it came out, though I think 2000 is better.

My point is, people really are boycotting Windows 10, and I hope it will never see the adoption rates that previous versions of Windows have.

Microsoft has made my job easy. They have lost me as a customer. I have all the software from them already that I'll ever need. My wallet thanks them! 

17 hours ago, Dylan Cruz said:

Yeah, it's amazing how Windows 2000 is so speedy compared to every other version of Windows NT out there, including XP. Seriously, every time I use it, I just say WOW. Everything is just instantaneous.

Where specifically do you observe a greater speed in Windows 2000 compared to XP with superfluous services, system file protection, and the visual theme switched off? The boot time in XP is shorter, with a similar size of startup programs and drivers(!). For a weird reason, there is a significant delay when deleting files in Total Commander under Windows 2000. I don't have much experience with Win2k and am probably missing more important differences.

I get this WOW experience using any old OS, especially freshly installed, on a modern hard drive.

Edited December 8, 20205 yr by j7n

6 hours ago, j7n said:

Where specifically do you observe a greater speed in Windows 2000 compared to XP with superfluous services, system file protection, and the visual theme switched off? The boot time in XP is shorter,

 

I'm willing to take a slow boot for faster overall operation. Fast boot is meaningless if it's laggy afterwards.

 

6 hours ago, j7n said:

with a similar size of startup programs and drivers(!). For a weird reason, there is a significant delay when deleting files in Total Commander under Windows 2000. I don't have much experience with Win2k and am probably missing more important differences.

 

I also use W2K with KernelEx, not vanilla SP4, but should be only better in that case.

I've tried with XP and it's just never been as good. W2K is great out of the box with near-XP compatibility with KernelEx.

 

6 hours ago, j7n said:

I get this WOW experience using any old OS, especially freshly installed, on a modern hard drive.

Yeah, agreed!

I use Windows 7, which isn't as fast as something older like W2K, but there are other benefits obviously.

4 hours ago, Dylan Cruz said:

 

I'm willing to take a slow boot for faster overall operation. Fast boot is meaningless if it's laggy afterwards.

 

 

I also use W2K with KernelEx, not vanilla SP4, but should be only better in that case.

I've tried with XP and it's just never been as good. W2K is great out of the box with near-XP compatibility with KernelEx.

 

Yeah, agreed!

I use Windows 7, which isn't as fast as something older like W2K, but there are other benefits obviously.

You never specify what's faster, or how it's faster

On 6/28/2020 at 3:47 AM, Ximonite said:

Windows Vista SP2 is not a bad OS or slow.

Windows Vista SP1 is very fast too , at least for me. 

On 12/7/2020 at 7:38 AM, j7n said:

Not sure why 2003 is mixed with 64-bit, when the later was not so good due to poor support.

Windows XP x64 Edition = NT 5.2 (Server 2003 x64), essentially couid be considered a 'consumer edition' SKU of sorts as a response to the Athlon 64's release to home users.

@TECHGEEK Pentium D is horribly inefficient, but yeah Windows 7 definitely tends to be a hog compared to Vista SP1/2 (as @Dixel pointed out, SP1 performs pretty decently, it's just the RTM that has issues which were mainly hardware related at the time).

In fact 7 is honestly just a marketing term for a re-issue of Vista...

Edited December 8, 20205 yr by Koishi Komeiji

On 6/30/2020 at 12:33 AM, win32 said:

latter doesn't support connecting to WPA2-EAP networks (or maybe it does but I couldn't manage it with the built-in client; had to use Boingo client that also works on Windows 2000)

If you're referring to those like they have on private/corporate networks (say, college wifi) then that's doable, I've done it before. It's just a complete mess, it took me a good half hour to figure it out and I don't remember how now.

On 10/24/2020 at 3:19 AM, Jody Thornton said:

I used a theme editor to modify the background buttons and colours.  I can send it to you.  I use a few home-made modified themes.  I hate when background windows have no colour.

 

You did it for Vista too ? Perhaps someone knows how to change the white background in folders without installing any themes , just the colour ?

Edited December 10, 20205 yr by D.Draker

On 10/23/2020 at 11:52 PM, monkeylove said:

Win 10 the best.

Huh? I strongly disagree and I'm 100% sure that many other guys out there feel the same way. Not intending to pick a fight though

On 12/26/2020 at 8:37 PM, Win10-Hater said:

Huh? I strongly disagree and I'm 100% sure that many other guys out there feel the same way. Not intending to pick a fight though

I no longer have Win 7, so I can't show benchmark differences for my PC (where I used Win 7, 8.1, and 10), so the best I can do is defer to what others have shown:

https://www.lakesidesoftware.com/sites/default/files/Analysis_of_Windows10_versus_Windows7_Performance_Implications.pdf

FWIW, other tests show only a slight improvement for Win 10. In which case, we can look at the improvements,

https://www.techrepublic.com/article/windows-10-the-smart-persons-guide/

which includes additional critical features for Windows Security (core isolation, virtualization, controlled folder access, etc.), sandboxing, enhanced graphics, etc. For example,

https://download.microsoft.com/documents/uk/enterprise/windows10/win10-win7-security-comparison.pdf

That plus the point that drivers are developed for it with new hardware, lots of features like Dark Mode, Night Mode, color picker, etc.

I remember doing some of these for earlier versions of Windows, like using WindowsBlinds, Sandboxie, etc., but many third-party software are no longer being developed or updated for older operating systems. Even the lack of security updates is a critical point to consider, especially given increased sophistication of new malware.

Given that, I don't see any logic behind your strong disagreement except probably in complaints about telemetry (which has been in place since Win 7) and the UI (which can easily be changed using Open-Shell).

 

 

28 minutes ago, monkeylove said:

I no longer have Win 7, so I can't show benchmark differences for my PC (where I used Win 7, 8.1, and 10), so the best I can do is defer to what others have shown:

https://www.lakesidesoftware.com/sites/default/files/Analysis_of_Windows10_versus_Windows7_Performance_Implications.pdf

FWIW, other tests show only a slight improvement for Win 10. In which case, we can look at the improvements,

https://www.techrepublic.com/article/windows-10-the-smart-persons-guide/

which includes additional critical features for Windows Security (core isolation, virtualization, controlled folder access, etc.), sandboxing, enhanced graphics, etc. For example,

https://download.microsoft.com/documents/uk/enterprise/windows10/win10-win7-security-comparison.pdf

That plus the point that drivers are developed for it with new hardware, lots of features like Dark Mode, Night Mode, color picker, etc.

I remember doing some of these for earlier versions of Windows, like using WindowsBlinds, Sandboxie, etc., but many third-party software are no longer being developed or updated for older operating systems. Even the lack of security updates is a critical point to consider, especially given increased sophistication of new malware.

Given that, I don't see any logic behind your strong disagreement except probably in complaints about telemetry (which has been in place since Win 7) and the UI (which can easily be changed using Open-Shell).

 

Yes, I do understand, but in my experience of using Windows 10 for around 3 years, it was horrible to me (and I ran Windows 10 on a 5400rpm HDD, which made it slow, therefore explaining its lack of optimisation for HDD's, as opposed to Windows 8.x, which is very fast even on a 5400rpm HDD). I know about dark themes, night mode etc.etc., but I have a Windows Vista Business installation on my main laptop that has been customised to include night mode (through f.lux). Also, I know that Open Shell exists to fix the horrible UI, but third party themes are also needed to correct the Metro UI abomination, and Windows 10 keeps breaking themes with every single update, so, thumbs down from me again.

On 12/7/2020 at 4:03 PM, xpclient said:

Best: XP or 7/8.1 with Winaero Tweaker, 7+ Taskbar Tweaker, Classic Shell, VistaSwitcher, OldNewExplorer

Worst: 10 but Winaero Tweaker, 7+TT, Classic Shell, VistaSwitcher and StartIsBack++, OldNewExplorer make it tolerable

Vista also, but I found 8.x to be better (with some UI tweaks).

19 hours ago, Win10-Hater said:

Yes, I do understand, but in my experience of using Windows 10 for around 3 years, it was horrible to me (and I ran Windows 10 on a 5400rpm HDD, which made it slow, therefore explaining its lack of optimisation for HDD's, as opposed to Windows 8.x, which is very fast even on a 5400rpm HDD). I know about dark themes, night mode etc.etc., but I have a Windows Vista Business installation on my main laptop that has been customised to include night mode (through f.lux). Also, I know that Open Shell exists to fix the horrible UI, but third party themes are also needed to correct the Metro UI abomination, and Windows 10 keeps breaking themes with every single update, so, thumbs down from me again.

I had the same problems with optimization even with Win 7 (where the defragmenter did not run as scheduled and I had to use Puran).

Win 8.1 was a major improvement in terms of performance, but the customization options like making bright backgrounds darker were gone; I had to drill down to the registry to fix that. Using Open-Shell was the easy part. Also, using an SSD made things even better.

I switched to Win 10 because it had the same internals as 8.1, security updates were about to end, the upgrade was free, and all customization from 8.1 carried over to it. With dark mode and night light, I no longer need f.lux, etc. I just have to see what more new features will be placed in PowerToys.

To remove the Metro UI, just set Open-Shell to use Win 7 style for the start menu.

Given that, I see no point in staying with older versions of Win, esp. given the lack of updates, lack of drivers for it for newer hardware, lack of updated security programs with it (core isolation, controlled folder access, behavior blocking and machine learning, etc.). If I only need to use a few programs (like browsers, spreadsheets, word processors, music and video players) and want to customize the UI in as many ways as possible while avoiding telemetry while receiving critical security updates, then I'd choose other operating systems.

 

I have switched to  8.1 because of drivers getting harder to find and It Is pretty good with classic shell and a lot of tweaking

Edited December 1, 20223 yr by legacyfan
Fixed Spelling

Windows 10 the best if u want to be spied on

Edited February 22, 20215 yr by Micro-Scopic Soft-ware