the warcraftIII are pretty good i think. but ur last statement there... i mentioned that too, and thats one of my main point about games today, the graphics will be good anyways. so how are we supposed to pick gameplay or grahpics? there has to be extremes. like oblivion type gameplay with 16bit colors, or oblivion hdr graphics but with some pointless annoying game. btw, i like ur avatar. i have a 33mhz 486 sitting right next to me, i just pulled it from a friends vry old como, its so fun to play with i cant beleive that they didnt even use a heatsink with it...