Official - Windows 10 Worst Crap Ever!

[Dibya]

Shall i ask what you get extra in Photoshop that not their in CS6? Except some cloud crap. 

[UCyborg]

GDI is at least partially hardware accelerated. On Windows 7, WDDM 1.1 driver is required and DWM must be active for acceleration to work (so no acceleration with basic and classic themes). Vista is an oddball here, where GDI is 100% on the CPU.

[xpclient]

They took 6 of the most commonly called functions out of 100s of GDI functions and added hardware acceleration for them: https://web.archive.org/web/20120322202136/http://www.passmark.com/support/performancetest/2d_windows7_performance.htm (BitBlt, ColorFill, StretchBlt, AlphaBlend, ClearType fonts & TransparentBlt). Anyway the point of those tweets is whatever performance hit GDI took from XP to Vista/7/8/10 seems to be getting worse with newer versions of Windows 10 as they probably don't pay attention to that old code and focus only on Direct2D, Direct3D, DirectWrite APIs.

Is there a way to know which apps use GDI vs which ones use DirectX-based APIs? And even the ones that use Direct2D, don't they use GDI for many drawing tasks? Maybe we could make a short list. I know for one that all web browsers use DirectX, parts of the Explorer shell - taskbar, Start menu and all of the modern UI/XAML-based panels use DirectX. As do apps like Paint.net, Notepad2, Telegram, Steam client, Office 2013 and later - all DirectX. But there are tons of native code (in Microsoft's words: "legacy") relevant and updated apps which use GDI and WinForms apps use it as well. WPF is DirectX-based (but can use GDI via InteropBitmap/WriteableBitmap). Classic Shell/Open Shell uses GDI. Many "legacy" parts of Windows use GDI all over the place e.g. I think MMC/Management Console?

Edited February 2, 2021 by xpclient

[Tripredacus]

On 1/30/2021 at 8:52 PM, vinifera said:

but isn't this clashing with itself ?
i mean win10 when can't and/or doesn't use GPU "powered" DWM (D3D), uses CPU "powered" mode, which is GDI no ?

What the designers at MS want to do, and then what the developers are told to do, as well as what the execs resign themselves to be able to do (market-wise) are totally different things. What I get from what little birdies tell me is that a plan was put into motion to do a thing, then was "rolled back" at least partially and then bandaids are put in along the way. So in this instance, I fully believe that GDI/+ was intended to be removed, a decision that came about from the planning stages of UEFI 2.3.1, and work on the new system almost certainly was started and does exist within the OS. But the decision to fully cut out GDI was rescinded and they left a compatibility layer in place.

[UCyborg]

11 hours ago, xpclient said:

Is there a way to know which apps use GDI vs which ones use DirectX-based APIs?

You can tell by inspecting the program's executable or its dependent DLLs whether they import GDI32.dll or not. Process Hacker comes with PE Viewer. Some programs are packed so their import table looks weird when inspected and I'm not sure whether all DLLs are shown or not. Also, OpenGL applications need certain functions from GDI32.dll.

Though even if a lot of functions are used, which is probably a good indicator GDI is supported and that the program can do interesting things with it, it might just be present as the fallback.

.NET programs call methods from System.Drawing namespace, which encapsulates basic GDI+ functionality. Seems System.Drawing.ni.dll is loaded by the process when used.

12 hours ago, xpclient said:

But there are tons of native code legacy apps which use GDI and WinForms apps use it as well. WPF is DirectX-based (but can use GDI via InteropBitmap/WriteableBitmap). Classic Shell/Open Shell uses GDI. Many "legacy" parts of Windows use GDI all over the place e.g. I think MMC/Management Console?

Aye, it's pretty widespread and updated programs that use it are out there (KeePass. 7-Zip, HD Tune...).

On 1/27/2021 at 6:57 AM, xpclient said:

Finally he posted the test itself for you to test it on your physical hardware if you have different versions installed in multi-boot configuration on the same hardware:

https://github.com/ADeltaX/REGDI/

This should be re-targeted to lower .NET Framework version. Are there even any noticeable differences between different .NET versions? I suspect invoking GDI from .NET isn't very expensive.

[sunryze]

A bit off topic, but the only reason I don't like 10 (as i have said earlier but not given a full explanation to) follows with these:
 

Why I like Windows 10:

• Multi monitor support is fantastic
• Full UEFI is nice (but W8 brought this)
• The more modern task manager may seem more dumb but is actually pretty useful now with the GPU temp and such
• Fluency is at least existant, rather than versions pre 1803
• Most apps work well with 10
• My hardware just generally runs better on it (system from the era of late 2017)

Why I don't like Windows 10:

• Constant feature updates can get annoying sometimes, especially with it doing it when you don't know it
• Telemetry is annoying, but just a feature of modern internet
• Sometimes it just doesn't make sense even though it should (like forcing certain drivers)
• It really just isn't fun to use
• You have to do shenanigans to get the OS to run the way you want it to (Winaero Tweaker, Open Shell, 7+TT)
• Inconsistent (The fact that there are two places for settings, which both redirect to each other)
• Compatibility (One game I have does not work on Win10)

 

Personally, I would much much more prefer Windows 7 as my main computing OS, but with its EoL and uncertainty I sadly don't find my time worth it to mess with it in the future. I have been looking at options like Windows 8.1 and Linux but for now it seems like Windows 10 fits my needs the most. I've mainly used it since release so that generally makes sense to just stick with the disaster. Ive been locked into Microsoft's hold and I can't escape. I don't like Windows 10 because they are forcing us to use what we don't like. Unfortunate part of rolling release software, where you have to use it wether you like it or not. Plus, Windows 7 is now entering the ACPI BSOD zone with some motherboards.

Unless someone finds a way to put me on 7 and keep me there, Windows 10 is sadly my only option for the rest of time until Microsoft decides to stop being lazy and make something useful for once. Windows 10 doesn't suck, but it just isn't the best thing out there. I don't happily use it, but I can tolerate it. I can happily use Windows 7 and 8.1. I used 7 on and off over the last 5 years but always moved back to 10 after I felt like I was sticking with a sinking ship. No offense to those who still use it. 

Windows 10 sucks and sadly Microsoft really meant it as the last version of Windows. If any of us normal classic Windows users wants a Windows like experience, we will just have to hope Microsoft wakes up from their coma or move to Linux, which that in itself is already a fetus in the computer world and has a long way to go before it will make its way on the desktops of today, but even then that isn't Linus's intent for Linux. He made it as just the flexible OS which the server and embedded community took into their own. Desktops never went there because Windows "just works" except it "just doesn't."

Remember when people had those heavily customized and themed Windows XP / Vista / 7 installs back 10 years ago? How common they were? Now with 10 we just see the same desktop. Start, search, task view, cortana, tons of ads in the start menu, tons of ads on the taskbar, microsoft edge. 

[Tripredacus]

11 hours ago, Tonny52 said:

Full UEFI is nice (but W8 brought this)

Windows 10 is not full UEFI, neither was Windows 8. Windows only has an EFI bootloader using the same basic methods as Vista and Windows 7. The OS itself is still "legacy" (hence why it still has stuff from XP in it) and only has the ability to hook into UEFI features.

To put it this way, if Windows 10 was actually an EFI application, it would be impossible to image/convert a Windows partition between EFI/GPT and BIOS/MBR disks and be able to get it to boot. You can do that now because when you do this type of conversion, you only need to change the bootloader to get the OS to boot.

[sunryze]

Then that is what I meant, an EFI bootloader.

[TrevMUN]

On 1/31/2021 at 4:51 AM, Dibya said:

Shall i ask what you get extra in Photoshop that not their in CS6? Except some cloud crap. 

I imagine that the differences are much greater since the time that this article was written, but this one says CC 2014 introduced Focus Mask selection, two new types of motion blurs (path blur, spin blur), smart guides from Illustrator and InDesign, and the ability to link or embed Smart Objects, which allow you to treat imported images the way you would use a Symbol in Flash and other Adobe products. (That is to say: you can import instances of a file to other Photoshop files, and then if you update or change the original file all the instances will change as well.)

Content aware tools had some refinement in CC 2014 as well, according to that article.

Adobe's site does detail new features in the latest releases of Photoshop CC, too. Some are useful, others are just cloud crap.

[BudwS]

Happy to find this topic again.  Am Insider testing 12 Win 10 installations over 9 computers.  Just "Stay at Home" activity over the last year.  Still looking for a version that could be trusted as a main household computer that has minimal c*** in it.  Concerned about the invasive personal information gathering capability of W10.  Change browser search engine with each new version that comes out. IE 11 is in end of life cycle, maybe good or bad?  Am favoring 21H1.  Old MacBook still seems to run updates of W10 (21H1) the fastest, so there is a smile here.  To offset the c***, have built multiple boot computers.  Penta-boot is the latest, 2 XPs, 1 7 and 2 10s.  That way will be able to say that the hardware is not the problem if one OS doesn't work and the other OSs do work. Enough c*** for now.

 

[BudwS]

New crap or same old crap repackaged? Are pieces of MS being bought out by other companies?  Browser?  Is personal information being gathered and then sold, now the big money maker? Some crap.

 

[bookie32]

On 6/3/2021 at 11:04 PM, BudwS said:

New crap or same old crap repackaged? Are pieces of MS being bought out by other companies?  Browser?  Is personal information being gathered and then sold, now the big money maker? Some crap.

 

It would be interesting to know how many of you think the new edge (based on Chrome) is worth a try...but maybe an opinion would be hard because as Microsoft say...it is based on Chrome...

[vinifera]

i personally wouldn't touch it, just like chrome itself or Opera...
i had hopes for Opera in its early 15 versions, but since they got bought by some china company... f*** that

anyhows, since alot "major" browsers are based on Chromium, again personally, i think it's better to get something "clean" and just use external plugins
that way you still have this Webkit or is it Blink now ... ? // compatible browser without spyware

 

[NoelC]

With Win 7, then with more effort with Win 8.1, I had developed a fully secure, private system setup that I managed with a deny-by-default firewall setup and a number of layers of atypical protection against malware.  I was involved with every decision whether to allow an application to communicate online.

With Win 10 I have been forced to give up the deny-by-default firewall setup.  Nowadays, too many applications require too much complex network communication to make it practical to manage such a setup, and they keep changing!  I have retained some of what I had set up before, but I don't feel nearly as secure, because I just am not able to keep on top of what talks to what.  There is a real cost to having an extra 100 processes running.

What's curious is that I'm not really doing any more work - I mean, back then I had Skype teleconferencing and eMail and web browsing and remote control over other systems, etc. on my Win 8.1 setup.  It was initially a bit of a feat to get things like Skype - which is promiscuous as hell online - to work within constraints but I ultimately accomplished it.  But now we have Teams and shared Office documents and Bluejeans and Zoom and 50 different ways to get those same things done that someone else requires in order for me to do my job.  Because someone else thinks those things are important to be able to do.  If anything the slightly less stable nature of the latest OSs cut into my productive time.  I can never seem to print anything reliably any more.  That never used to be a problem; now it is.  The most useful things I do are still done the "old fashioned" way - developed right here locally on my computer system then shared later.  Who thinks they're more productive while on a video call?  Who isn't overloaded by all the inputs?  But because everyone else seems to have swallowed the hype that "cloud apps are better" there's no getting away from it.

It's a bit like walking quietly along a street to go to the store then being swept up by an overwhelming crowd of people headed to a riot.  You end up being pushed and shoved to where you don't want to go, rather than reaching your intended destination, and you don't get to do what you wanted to do.  You can't even remember what you wanted to do.  And there is nothing you could have done to create a different outcome.

-Noel

[NoelC]

Following up on an earlier bit of conversation about what's improved...

I actually HAVE found a few things - and they're not huge - that I do like better about Windows 10 than its predecessors...

- Dark applications (such as File Explorer).  MUCH easier on the eyes.
- Seamless Bluetooth switching between e.g., speakers and headphones just by turning devices on/off.
- All new hardware I've plugged in has just worked.

I spent quite a while on the above list and could really only think of these three.

A few ongoing frustrations:

- An occasional 30 second stall when working with Explorer (e.g., sometimes when opening a context menu).
- Now I have to have an application running that works around the cursor catching in corners; that used to be fixable via a registry tweak.
- Loss of the ability to easily differentiate windows from one another on the desktop (Aero Glass and Big Muscle's tool are long gone).
- SO many useless processes chewing up system resources just to have an empty desktop.
- Desktop interactivity not improved in any practical sense even with much better hardware.
- Microsoft trying to prevent me from managing my own system through sneaky permissions settings, "waas medic", scheduled tasks, etc.
- More communications with more sites online, all the time, without clear benefit.

Someone mentioned better multi-monitor support, and I guess things may be improving, but TBH having run multiple monitors since XP I'm not sure I agree things are all that much better.  Once setup I don't change monitors though.

I suppose things could be worse.  And they could be better.

-Noel

Edited July 11, 2021 by NoelC