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Jody Thornton

Is it safe to use Windows 9x on the modern web?

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19 hours ago, dencorso said:

@Dibya: Stop. Right now. :crazy:

Lord Acton (back in 1877)  said:
"It is bad to be oppressed by a minority; but it is worse to be oppressed by a majority."

Good.

Okay 

I hope jodyt will not come back to insult 9x

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On the subject of stability, consider this sequence of Operating Systems.

OS #1: First in series. "A" is buggy.
OS #2: "A" is fixed. New parts "B" and "C" are buggy.
OS #3: "B" and "C" are fixed. New parts "D", "E", and "F" are buggy.

Sound familiar?
Which is more stable?

#3 because they fixed "A", "B", and "C", or #1 because there is only one thing wrong?
None are perfect.

I choose what works best for me.

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I love 98SE, but even I think it's high time not to bother with web browsers for 98SE at all.

If you're doing a build with 98SE, it's probably not powerful enough to run modern YouTube/Facebook on a modern OS like XP/7. Especially if you want period correctness.

Unless you're doing another ASRock motherboard Socket 775 98SE overkill build. Then maybe it is powerful enough, but that's a minority. This won't help for the ever changing websites, thet will break more with every single day under Opera 12.02.

Facebook and YouTube under Opera 12.02 were working fine in 2015 with the latest Flash, but today's Facebook layout is screwed (mind that I was using the 1024x768 resolution), and YouTube is much slower. Also fonts are pretty much always broken and downright ugly. (Times New Roman on YouTube, blargh!)

Edited by MrMateczko
  • Upvote 1

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3 hours ago, MrMateczko said:

I love 98SE, but even I think it's high time not to bother with web browsers for 98SE at all.

If you're doing a build with 98SE, it's probably not powerful enough to run modern YouTube/Facebook on a modern OS like XP/7. Especially if you want period correctness.

See Guys?  I'm not the only one.  I was never trolling.  If you want to use Win9x to run older local software, go for it.  I even use XP as a media jukebox.  But I never put it online.  And there was never anything wrong with saying so. :)

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7 minutes ago, JodyT said:

See Guys?  I'm not the only one.  I was never trolling.  If you want to use Win9x to run older local software, go for it.  I even use XP as a media jukebox.  But I never put it online.  And there was never anything wrong with saying so. :)

Just because someone else has stated that they do not use 98SE online anymore does not give credence to your arrogant theories about it "being a danger to others." And such talk, along with behaving in a "condescending" manner toward those who disagree with you, is most definitely trolling. MrMateczko can at least be counted as a member of the 9x "community" whereas you apparently just came in here to voice unfounded opinions about a system you don't even use.

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OK so Lone Crusader.  Let's be friendly about it then shall we?  That are many who are legit experts in the IT field that would not see calling Windows 9x being a "threat" to others online, an arrogant theory.  IT experts would fired en masse if they ever recommended it in the business world.  How is that arrogant?  Just because you don't agree with it?  And further more, I did use Windows 98 SE and ME extensively for many years, so I do indeed have authority to speak on it.  The system does have its limitations.  It's not a stable protected mode memory model.  Those aren't lies Lone Crusader.  Those are facts.

If I really, genuinely thought something was a poor decision to do (as in running Win9x online), why can't that be expressed?  If someone new came along and read this thread, I wouldn't want them to just read all good things about Windows 9x in 2017.  People should have a fair and balanced view of all sides, including those who disagree with the bulk of the views here.

Besides, many of you balk at Windows NT 6x systems.  There's one fellow who calls Windows 10 the "terrorist edition".  Really?  I loathe Windows 10, and even I think that's ridiculous.  So come on, everything should be fair game.  Strong opinions are not equivalent to trolling.  If you're just wanting everything to be all nicey-nicey to Windows 98 users, isn't that equally biased?  There's no hate or anger being expressed on my part.  Just strong opinion, and that never hurt anyone.

:)

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MrMateczko said:

> I love 98SE, but even I think it's high time not to
> bother with web browsers for 98SE at all.

My office and home PC are both win-98, running on a intel 845 chipset with P4 socket 478, about 2.5 ghz with 1 gb ram and nvidia 6200 AGP 256 mb video card.

It's normal to have several browsers open, multiple tabs on each, outlook 2000 running in the background for email, an old dlink IP-view program monitoring 1 or 2 ip cameras (doing motion-detection on them). Last few days I was doing that and running utorrent (downloading those french emails (several gb worth) that were hacked - lots of .eml files that I click on and voila - Outlook express opens and displays them perfectly!).

> it's probably not powerful enough to run modern YouTube/Facebook

I tend to look down on anyone who includes Faecebook as part of their lives. I've never had it, joined it, touched it. Then again I don't own a cell phone either (I'll take my computer with a full size keyboard, monitor, OS and file system that's under my full control).

> Unless you're doing another ASRock motherboard Socket 775
> 98SE overkill build. Then maybe it is powerful enough,

Sorry, but the ancient P4 2+ ghz socket 478 with at least 512 mb ram is perfectly good at surfing any web site these days, and rendering youtube video. Be it win-98 or XP. Now maybe win-7+ needs more horsepower...

 

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4 minutes ago, Nomen said:


> it's probably not powerful enough to run modern YouTube/Facebook

I tend to look down on anyone who includes Faecebook as part of their lives. I've never had it, joined it, touched it. Then again I don't own a cell phone either (I'll take my computer with a full size keyboard, monitor, OS and file system that's under my full control).

 

So see?  Isn't that just as "condescending" to someone who does engage in modern-day social media?  But I don't see that statement as trolling.  I wholeheartedly disagree with it, but Nomen should have the right to say it.  This is precisely what I'm getting at.  So why is it any different when I've expressed my views?  I think it's an important point to make.

Edited by JodyT

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46 minutes ago, JodyT said:

OK so Lone Crusader.  Let's be friendly about it then shall we?  That are many who are legit experts in the IT field that would not see calling Windows 9x being a "threat" to others online, an arrogant theory.  IT experts would fired en masse if they ever recommended it in the business world.  How is that arrogant?  Just because you don't agree with it?

I will repeat, this time with the full proper quote.

"If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

I am not interested in your appeal to authority or appeal to popularity. All I see in your argument is the biased opinion of a bunch of people who have been indoctrinated by Microsoft and who believe in the fallacy that newer is always better or that somehow because something is older makes it inferior. Just because a bunch of people may advocate for using a newer system does not make the older system "dangerous" and I would love to see any concrete proof that somehow running an older system can affect a different machine using a newer system. Such an argument defies all logic, and would certainly refute the idea that the newer system is somehow superior if it can in fact be damaged by an older system. Such an attitude is arrogant because it has absolutely no basis in fact and is entirely based on opinion. Show me concrete proof otherwise. And the "opinion" of some so-called expert is most definitely not proof.

46 minutes ago, JodyT said:

And further more, I did use Windows 98 SE and ME extensively for many years, so I do indeed have authority to speak on it.  The system does have its limitations.  It's not a stable protected mode memory model.  Those aren't lies Lone Crusader.  Those are facts.

Any operating system has limits. Limits of the time period do not translate into "dangers." "Stable" is also a subjective term here. Hardly "facts" of any relevance to your "dangerous" argument.

46 minutes ago, JodyT said:

If I really, genuinely thought something was a poor decision to do (as in running Win9x online), why can't that be expressed?  If someone new came along and read this thread, I wouldn't want them to just read all good things about Windows 9x in 2017.  People should have a fair and balanced view of all sides, including those who disagree with the bulk of the views here.

Besides, many of you balk at Windows NT 6x systems.  There's one fellow who calls Windows 10 the "terrorist edition".  Really?  I loathe Windows 10, and even I think that's ridiculous.  So come on, everything should be fair game.  Strong opinions are not equivalent to trolling.  If you're just wanting everything to be all nicey-nicey to Windows 98 users, isn't that equally biased?  There's no hate or anger being expressed on my part.  Just strong opinion, and that never hurt anyone.

Anyone who comes here to read this thread is most likely to be looking for a solution, not looking for someone's biased opinions on why they should not use their computer in the manner they choose. Is the Internet "usable" on Windows 9x these days? This is subjective as well. Depends on how determined the user is to achieve this and how many annoyances they are willing to put up with. I see the purpose of this thread and this forum as being a place for 9x users to get support and solutions, not a place for people to tell them how "ignorant" they are for wishing to do so. I expect 98 users to be able to come here and discuss their system of choice and get meaningful solutions (insomuch as they can be found these days) without some form of "Microsoft toadie" constantly chiming in to tell them to "upgrade" because they're not safe or some other FUD. This forum is not a vehicle for the Microsoft Lifecycle Policy.

You cite the "Terrorist Edition" remark as ridiculous, but you tell Dibya to come "out of his XP cave"? How are you any better? You said you were going to leave the issue to rest and have not done so. Enough of this. Get back on topic and respect the topic for what it intended to be (i.e. helpful information, not biased BS).

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Maybe that "Terrorist Edition" remark is not so ridiculous after all.

Running Windows 10 has corrupted some of my FAT32 Partitions, even ones that I did not intentionally access.

Don't even think about putting a Floppy Disk in a machine running Windows 10.

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@rloew: Please do open a new thread on Win 10 and FAT32.
Here in the 9x/ME forums obviously, because this is of maximum interest for this community, of course! :)
I, for one, im very much interested in knowing more about your findings, since I use FA32 extensively and even my bootable XP partitions are FAT32.



 

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@dencorso:  I have identified the problem and a solution. It is not specific to FAT32. It can affect any non-Microsoft Controlled Multi-Boot System or swappable Drive. Windows 8 may also be susceptible.

I will open a thread shortly.

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