NotHereToPlayGames

You've missed the primary point. User Agent is *OLD SCHOOL*. You are better served learning NEW TRICKS and stop relying on the OLD tricks. Test your CLIENT HINTS and *STOP* focusing on User Agent. Go here: https://www.neutrinoapi.com/client-hints-analyzer/ Your old-school user agent is listed at the very top section. The next section (and this does not apply to any 'fox fork, just to any Chrome fork [ie, Supermium]) is your CLIENT HINTS. If BOTH SECTIONS do not AGREE with each other, the web site owner KNOWS THAT YOU ARE A LIAR !!! ie, "spoofing your OLD SCHOOL user agent" but not smart enough to spoof the CLIENT HINT that *goes hand in hand* with that user agent.

And for those that don't want to download that attachment:

Yes... and NO! You "can" change the User Agent, there are *TONS* of extensions that can do that, even just simple command line or Dev Tool Console methods. BUT if you don't ALSO change the CLIENT HINTS that GO WITH that User Agent, then you have DONE NOTHING except feed your own PLACEBO EFFECT. Change one *without the other* is something that even a GRADE SCHOOL "coder" can detect.

Good luck with that! I really think that IF THEY CARED, we wouldn't have needed this thread, or the other two, or the dozens of references. Call it "reverse psycholology", HOPEFULLY the more I say that they don't care, they will chime in to PROVE ME WRONG. But I for one ain't holdin' my breath on that LOST CAUSE. Carry on... GOOD LUCK !!!

I would kind of guess that only 15,000 of those were ever "real people". And that would be my *HIGH* estimate. It's not a violation of forum rules, people have lives, they join, forget that they joined, no longer have first email, join again years later with a different email, et cetera. We have tons of "spammer" accounts that join and are counted as a member, but their spam doesn't land for several weeks later (if it lands at all). MSFN has done a *GREAT* job at preventing SPAM (we used to have days where OVER A HUNDRED spams [Intuit QuickBooks or TurboTax!] would all land in a FIVE MINUTE SPAN). We no longer have that spam. But, we no longer have NEW members. OF ANY KIND! Real or Fake, we don't have either!

And it really comes down to how do NEW MEMBERS find MSFN. Because let's face facts, all MSFN has been for the past SIX MONTHS is all of us that are already members "talking to ourselves". Some odd digital circle jerk, pardon the phrase. And let's face facts, we've *LOST* a lot of GOOD MEMBERS because they already saw that writing on the wall, that all we do is "talk to ourselves". And let's face facts, many of us, whether we admit it or not, are just kind of downright "rude" to anybody not in 100% agreement with our own "paradigm". MSFN is *dead*. It really is. "Management" has left the building. Not even "reverse psychology" can get them to voice a view. Nobody really cares anymore. Just riding out the storm. All we can do, I guess, is keep hoping that the Definition of Insanity doesn't apply here.

Bingo! I did *NOT* become a member here at MSFN because I *searched* for "site:msfn.org whatever". I *searched* for "whatever" and it contained links for topics/threads on a website *I NEVER HEARD OF* prior to it being listed in a search engine's "list of results". Nobody searches for a webiste THEY NEVER HEARD OF by starting off their search query *WITH* the URL of that NEVER-HEARD-OF web site. Yeah, we've all heard of it "now", but it's safe to say that NONE OF US "stumbled onto MSFN" by performing a search for "site:msfn.org whatever".

No, we can't! I'm not saying to take my word for it, I would love for somebody to "trick" Cloudflare. But yeah, ALL SIGNS POINT TO *NO*, it can't be done! My city utilities (sewer and trash) is behind Cloudflare. Like CLOCKWORK, any browser older than a mere TWO MONTHS (just under, actually) can *NOT* be used to pay city utilities. So I've been "experimenting" for the last YEAR (at least). You can *NOT* spoof a UA, you can *NOT* fake Client Hints, you can *NOT* polyfill javascript. I've done a "million" things (exaggerating, but you get the idea). I'm not exactly a "stupid person" (how many people do you know that can FAKE CLIENT HINTS). I'm telling you, IT CAN'T BE DONE. I've been on dozens of sites that are smarter than me and they can't do it either. IT CAN'T BE DONE. The "technology" simply does not exist. Cloudflare is GREAT at what they do. I'm going to keep trying to "break" it. But so far, IT CAN'T BE DONE.

It's been two decades since I ran a website. But I have ran a website so there is at least a tiny shred of experience doing this speaking. Old and probably outdated, I cannot speak towards that. Back then, *I* (as owner of that website server) had to define what content could be "crawled" by search bots. I cannot speak for "today", but I have to assume that the owner of any website "still" has to define what content can even be SEEN by search bots. And what content is **HIDDEN** from search bots. Not to keep beating the dead horse, but all of that falls on the OWNER. I continue to place *zero* "blame" upon Google. They have a "brand" to PROTECT. And "allowing" Siamese results CUTS INTO that "reputation".

I am affected "now". As of just a few days ago. But prior to that, no effect here. So it's possible (strictly theoretically) that this "issue" that was gradually rolled out to all, will also gradually "un-roll". But only AFTER the owner "takes action". Google isn't going to do it "for him".

While I applaud the "enthusiasm" and you already know my perspective (that the owner has FULL BLAME), I have to say that there comes a point where this is nothing but "beating a dead horse". THREE threads? Inciting a riot? Violation of forum rules? I did it myself (the "out of context" 'bump'). So *YES*, again, I AGREE WITH YOU. But I still think "we" are beating a dead horse. "No answer is an answer." I guess I don't care anymore, it's been like this since January, to some countries more than others. You asked for feedback. That is mine. It's not "in lock-step with" yours, but it is still in AGREEMENT with yours. No matter how often either one of us 'bumps', the owner/admins/supervisors have "already spoken". Carry on...

I think he has the right thread. Just a language barrier. He's basically referring to how Cloudflare does *NOT* rely solely on UA.

No UA will fix that. crx4chrome may be trying to INSTALL instead of trying to DOWNLOAD and the INSTALL is being blocked (ie, such as would happen if using an UNGOOGLED version). Does v122 have a flag similar to this? ie, the MIME type options would be to DOWNLOAD instead of INSTALL:

Agreed!

Looks like we have our "answer".

Most likely NO! https://github.com/e3kskoy7wqk/Chromium-for-windows-7-REWORK/issues/6#issuecomment-4101818115

Since January 2nd's v145 release.

<disregard previous statement. e3k is both faster by score *and* faster by duration of test.> <granted, this also compares v144 to v150 because those are the most recent of both forks> <I personally like e3k *way more* than Supermium. BUT... I would also call it more of a "gut feeling" than a "scientific justification".> <Plus, in my readings throughout the 'net, there are DOZENS of forks that REFERENCE e3k as their "base" and *NONE* that reference Supermium as their "base".> Here is my Supermium test result: Here is my e3k test result:

I really need a screencap'd example. I consider PROXOMITRON "old technical knowledge" and Google Search has ZERO problems in PROPERLY indexing PROXOMITRON. BUT... Eureka! Yeah, while not "Siamese", there is that "odd looking" red-arrow result! I searched several of what I would consider "old technical knowledge", none of the others did this (the red-arrow result). So okay, I'll give credence to the Google Blame. But it still does not trump (card game slang) placing 100% blame upon any forum owner befallen to such.

BUT... as far as I can tell, it's the **ONLY** victim! Which (until proven otherwise) is why I *FULLY* blame the forum OWNER. I have NEVER witnessed this type of "Siamese results" since being brought up on computers in the early EIGHTIES. So I've basically been on the internet "since day one". What we have happening here, to the best of my knowledge, has NEVER happened to any other forum. I kind of do not like to "divide" blame. I don't see it as 20% to the Siamese hacker, 10% to all members not seeking "better management" by the OWNER, 10% to all members just sitting idly by, 29% to Google Search, and 31% to the forum owner. I myself place all 100% on the forum owner. I would totally flip blame from forum owner to Google Search *IF* (and only if) somebody provides a screencap of those types of results (Siamese) for *ANY* other forum. But since (to the best of my knowledge) this has hit ***OO NN LL YY*** MSFN, then I cannot (in good faith) blame Google Search (they are PROTECTING their "BRAND", as *any* business SHOULD).

Bingo!

My last word on this: Apologies, we are all entitled to our own World View, THIS ALL FALLS SQUARELY ON THE FORUM OWNER. At the stage we are at now, I kind of "fully support" the NON-EXISTENCE of MSFN. The OWNER is running a FAILED BUSINESS MODEL. You have your view, I have mine. AGREE TO DISAGREE. BUT... That is NOT me taking Google's "side". That is me "wanting" a forum owner HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO HIS SHORTCOMINGS in this matter. edit: that said, *IF* there was evidence of Google doing this to another site similar to MSFN, then (and only then) would I jump onto your bandwagon. But from what I have seen throughout my history of being an MSFN member, this all is a "failed business model", a model that *DID* work in the past. But business models must evolve when the industry that the business resides within evolves.

No disagreement here! I *agree*. Just saying, I kind of think that the algorithm is doing what it is "designed to do". Everything else (like have a member list that MEANS SOMETHING, none of those "fake accounts" cluttering the 'statistics') is nothing more than a "the buck stops here" philosophy. That buck lands squarely on the forum OWNER. Not Google. I don't place ANY "blame" in all of this on Google. The buck stops at the forum OWNER. The "donations" section of MSFN isn't as clear as the Members List, but it kind of looks like ZERO DONATIONS since January. I am *NOT* saying that Google (and the like) are "innocent" in all of this. But I also really do think that the algorithm is doing EXACTLY what it was DESIGNED to do. NO NEW MEMBERS IN SIX MONTHS. That really does tell me everything I need to know. Me personally, I don't want those Siamese results! And if I *owned* the algorithm, INCLUDING them cuts into the "brand reputation". "I'm not going to use Google anymore, all it ever does is feed me fake Siamese results." So yeah, Google all but *HAS TO* fine tune the "algorithm" to PREVENT that "loss of client base". I'm not on Google's side here !!! But I also have to look at it UNBIASED from the view of "I love MSFN, I hate any search engine that doesn't share that love!"

To further that Devil's Advocate take on things, if I were a "globally reknown" search engine, WHY WOULD I INCLUDE SUCH A LOW-TRAFFIC RESULT ??? The "algorithm" seems to be DOING ITS JOB, if you ask me. MSFN is *NOT* a "high traffic" website, it really is just a bunch of OLD MEMBERS that just TALK TO THEMSELVES. We haven't had any NEW MEMBERS for **SIX MONTHS** !!! So yeah, if I ran a "search engine", I would have been demoting MSFN each and every month for the past SIX MONTHS. And at month SIX, yeah, I'd remove it from the "list of results" ENTIRELY. Again, MSFN is *dead*. It really is! No new members for six months, just a CRAPLOAD of *FAKE* members with ZERO "posts". The "algorithm" is basically doing what I myself would do if I "owned" that algorithm.

Another Devil's Advocate way of looking at this is that this has been happening for THREE MONTHS. And we have all been continuing to visit at our normal rate! ie, NONE OF US HAVE LEFT (I actually think we "should", but yet I'm still here also!). I've always been skeptic of the effectiveness of "boycotts", but are not *all of us* telling the owner that this "issue" is a *non-issue* for the CURRENT MEMBERS ??? We are all still here, afterall. BUT... Now the flipside. Look at the MEMBERS LIST and sort it by "Joined". This website *always* has had (past tense!) "NEW" members each and every month spanning DECADES. Yeah, many of these aren't really "real" people, but I still request you to look at that LIST. We haven't had any "new" members since JANUARY. And NONE from January have a "post count" higher than ZERO. Look deeper. None of our DECEMBER 2025 "new" members have a "post count" higher than ZERO. Keep going. NOVEMBER 2025's "new" members only has FOUR members (out of 82 !!!) with an actual "post count". You can read into this what you want. TO ME, this all says that MSFN is ***DEAD*** and the *only* people that still visit/post kind of do so more out of "habit" than anything. Myself included. MSFN hasn't really been what we all knew it to be *ALL OF THIS YEAR*. It has been reduced to a very small number of members, NO NEW MEMBERS, that just keep "talking to ourselves". I really do think that the "owner" is just content with "as-is" and DOESN'T CARE that we technically don't have NEW MEMBERS that CONTRIBUTE. Not since last NOVEMBER. How can the owner not have NOTICED THAT? It can't be JUST ME that has noticed that! Don't believe me? Take a look for yourself -- https://msfn.org/board/search/?type=core_members&sortby=joined&sortdirection=desc And look through the first several "pages" of that "new members" sorted by "joined date". MSFN IS *DEAD* !!!