My Browser Builds (Part 4)

[AstroSkipper]

57 minutes ago, UCyborg said:

Good lord...minutes!? It goes through in 7 seconds here, both St52 and Mypal 68. 360Chrome is through in 5 seconds. My Xperia E3 takes almost 40 seconds though, it's on Chromium 118 engine. You guys really do browse the web with computers that are equivalent of putting a Ford Model T on a modern highway...

Right! Using browsers such as Mypal 68, New Moon or Serpent means the user is running old hardware with old operation systems. Such systems are slow and weak in general. On more recent hardware, I personally wouldn't think of using old OSes or legacy browsers. Thus, your comment is not very logical, rather absurd or provocative and certainly not helpful. And BTW, I drive a very old car and speed doesn't matter for me.  One particularly positive aspect is that I produce very little electronic waste. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by AstroSkipper

[NotHereToPlayGames]

My daily drivers are a 2003 and a 1991 - so yep, I drive a very old car also, so RESPECT, my dear friend!  

I'm afraid I don't quite see the older-browser on older-hardware quite the same.

I mean, one post tells other folks to consult to a modern browser on a tablet.

Another post cites Mypal 68, New Moon, and Serpent being for the sake of old hardware on old operating systems.

Did you really cite a full MINUTE on one browser and five to six times that on another browser?  *SIX MINUTES* to wait for a "captcha" to complete?

Okay, that's *WHY* you have the tablet, lol.

The thing is, though, web browsers USED TO BE "optimized" relative to the OS.

Nowadays, that is NOT what these browser forks "do".

Consider, for a moment, a bucket of 2,000 javascript functions.

If 100 of those functions are seldom used "in the wild" but the mere compatability being implemented results in a captcha taking SIX MINUTES versus THIRTY SECONDS, then should that browser "support" those 100 javascript functions?

I say a resounding NO.  But again, that's not how these forks are designed, they're designed to get us as close as possible to that FULL bucket of 2,000 javascript functions NO MATTER WHAT THE COST IS TO "PERFORMANCE".

I mean, most of us (myself included!) try to have it both ways, we expect to run our old hardware but think it should do everything that new hardware can do.

But again, RESPECT, my fellow old car driver.  

[mina7601]

8 hours ago, anton12 said:

mina7601, please can you also tell how much time it took  for
St52  for the verification process ?

You actually misunderstood me, but no worries. What I was trying to say is, the link to the website in your post doesn't load for me at all, it just says to me: "Registrierung aktuell nicht möglich". And it says that message regardless of the browser I use, so it's not St52-exclusive.

[AstroSkipper]

Here are some facts: my car is from 1989, my Windows XP computer is from 2000 but my tablet is an Android 9 one with most recent apps. I could use a much more modern desktop computer but I love my old one. I also could use a notebook with dualboot of Win 7 and Win 10. Websites which don't run properly on my Win XP machine I usually open on my Android tablet. I am an experienced Android user and can do nearly all things under Android if needed. BTW, many of my posts are written on my tablet. And I love throwing Google-infested websites at my tablet. This part can handle them perfectly. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by AstroSkipper
Update of content

[NotHereToPlayGames]

30 minutes ago, AstroSkipper said:

BTW, many of my posts are written on my tablet.

Pretty much what I expected.  Not the first time you've cited how slow your computer is and I know I wouldn't use that "all the time" if I didn't HAVE TO, lol.

Almost some sort of, "What are you doing this weekend?"  "I'm paying bills."  "All weekend?"  "Yep, it takes about 2 hours to pay the water bill, about 3 hours to pay the electric bill, about 2.5 hours to pay for cable, et cetera."  

I have a '55 also, but it doesn't exaclty get driven every day.

[AstroSkipper]

30 minutes ago, NotHereToPlayGames said:

Pretty much what I expected.  Not the first time you've cited how slow your computer is and I know I wouldn't use that "all the time" if I didn't HAVE TO, lol.

My Windows XP desktop computer is not permanently switched on. But my tablet is. This means that many daily tasks can be done immediately. But I generally prefer to surf with my old machine. I love the legacy browsers such as New Moon 28 and Serpent 52. And complex articles are written there, of course. But all that bloated Google stuff is ideal food for my tablet. 

Edited December 6, 2023 by AstroSkipper

[VistaLover]

On 12/5/2023 at 8:02 PM, anton12 said:

After entering the e-mail address and password,
the next step is the anti-robot-verification:

Anti-Roboter-Verifizierung
Hier klicken   (click here)

This anti-robot-verification seems to be an endless loop
with the latest versions of NM28 and St52.
And SSUAO does not help.

Any ideas how to solve this (unfriendly) friendlyCaptcha problem ?

Returning, hopefully, on topic , I tried your "problem" in a quasi-fresh profile in latest NM28 [28.10.7a1 (32-bit) (2023-11-30)]; only extension installed is uBO-legacy v1.16.4.31b2 ; I first disabled it fully and then acquired a German IP address via VPN; when I accessed

https://www.huk24.de/zugang/registrierung/anmeldedaten

an overlay appeared that asked me to consent to their cookie-setting in my browser (I didn't read it all, I just pressed the "Zustimmen" blue button), then the "Registrierung" page loaded; as soon as I accessed with my cursor the "E-Mail-Adresse" input field, the "Anti-Roboter-Verifizierung" process auto-kicked-in (alternatively, I guess, you can skip the two input fields and go straight to the "Hier klicken" button); in NM28 it took ca. 85s for the process to complete successfully and yield the "Ich bin ein Mensch" result...

All I can tell you is that the process is CPU/RAM-intensive, for the duration the bar moves to the right (towards completion), my CPU was constantly at 100% (2009-era Intel Core2 Duo); I conducted several additional tests and by exiting all unneeded running applications and having only this one tab open in NM28, I achieved a completion time of just 39s ... What you need to concentrate on here is the fact the anti-robot-verification did complete successfully!

How old exactly is your CPU? Does it support the SSE2 instruction set?
How much RAM do you have available for the browser?

If the process does require an SSE2 CPU, then you'd be out of luck if your CPU can't cope ... In your initial post you said

Quote

This anti-robot-verification seems to be an endless loop

i.e. you did not say "it started but takes an awful lot to finish" - as AstroSkipper wrote, even with a very old CPU, the process would ultimately finish (though I do agree 5-6min is way too much ) ; my advice to you is to try again with a fresh NM28 profile (I assume you have updated to the latest NM28 release ) - give it the 5min reported here and see how it goes...

On 12/5/2023 at 11:29 PM, mina7601 said:

This is what it gave me when I accessed your link (to try to replicate your issue) through the latest version of St52.

On 12/6/2023 at 10:32 PM, mina7601 said:

the link to the website in your post doesn't load for me at all, it just says to me: "Registrierung aktuell nicht möglich". And it says that message regardless of the browser I use, so it's not St52-exclusive.

I, too, ended up on that "Registration is currently not possible" webpage during my testing; clearing browser cookies and trying anew several times did finally yield the proper "Registration" page (the one inside AstroSkipper's post) - however, for the sake of just this test, you can click on the "Zur Anmeldung" label and be served another page which also contains the ""Anti-Roboter-Verifizierung" test/button ...

Edited December 7, 2023 by VistaLover
corrected latest NM28 version details

[mina7601]

2 hours ago, VistaLover said:

you can click on the "Zur Anmeldung" label and be served another page which also contains the ""Anti-Roboter-Verifizierung" test/button ...

Thanks, wasn't aware of this.

@anton12 Now, to answer your questions:

12 hours ago, anton12 said:

mina7601, please can you also tell how much time it took  for
St52  for the verification process ?

It took just around 6-7 seconds for St52. (Same as @UCyborg's time )

12 hours ago, anton12 said:

Did you, mina7601, use extensions or special settings

for St52?

No extensions or special settings used.

Edited December 7, 2023 by mina7601
Same as @UCyborg's time :P

[UCyborg]

On 12/6/2023 at 8:10 PM, AstroSkipper said:

Thus, your comment is not very logical, rather absurd or provocative and certainly not helpful.

I don't see it that way. if anything, it's the waiting time that is absurd.

The waiting time does increase to about half-minute when forcing affinity to 1 core, but I'd have to boot into XP to get the exact seconds as it slipped off my mind. That's on some version of St52 from first half of October 2023. It's done in 15 seconds on Pale Moon 32.5.0 on Windows 10. Single-core here increases waiting time to about 85 seconds.

It does manage to load all 4 cores as-is, which is a rare sight in UXP browser in my experience, when it's stuck with some websites' scripts, it's always one core that is working.

21 hours ago, NotHereToPlayGames said:

Not the first time you've cited how slow your computer is and I know I wouldn't use that "all the time" if I didn't HAVE TO, lol.

From what I remember from his posts mentioning specs, it reminds me of my previous one, but mine was definitely slower, a Celeron instead of a Pentium, less RAM, worse GPU, it didn't even do DirectX 8.

23 hours ago, AstroSkipper said:

Here are some facts: my car is from 1989

23 hours ago, NotHereToPlayGames said:

My daily drivers are a 2003 and a 1991 - so yep, I drive a very old car also

I drove a 2001 model until autumn last year, after I switched to a 2022 model, I was the reason the old car was at the house 5 years longer than it would have been otherwise, I'm the youngest in the family, BTW. And we only got rid of the 37+ years old freezing cabinet last year, no idea how much electric bill was inflated because of it, I don't pay electric bills currently and I never asked.

Regarding the car, issues were just cropping up one after another in recent times and engine shutting down mid-motorway shot my anxiety through the roof, which was the last straw. I'm on the road almost every day and the peace of mind is worth a lot to me.

Edited December 7, 2023 by UCyborg

[mina7601]

23 hours ago, VistaLover said:

I tried your "problem" in a quasi-fresh profile in latest NM28 [28.10.7a1 (32-bit) (2023-11-17)]

? That isn't the latest NM28. The latest NM28 is [28.10.7a1 (32-bit) (2023-11-30)] (with the filename having 20231202 in it), but even then, I generously did a quick test for the verification process of the website @anton12 mentioned in latest NM28 [28.10.7a1 (32-bit) (2023-11-30)] as well (no extensions or special settings used there either), and it took exactly the same time it took in St52.

Edited December 7, 2023 by mina7601

[VistaLover]

23 minutes ago, mina7601 said:

That isn't the latest NM28. The latest NM28 is [28.10.7a1 (32-bit) (2023-11-30)] (with the filename having 20231202 in it),

... Of course you're correct , I mis-pasted the version details of the latest NM28 release, its package filename being

palemoon-28.10.7a1.win32-git-20231202-d849524bd-uxp-aa8671dc1b-xpmod.7z

In fact, "(2023-11-17)" was the version prior to me updating to the "true latest" one, (2023-11-30), for the sake of testing; my daily UXP-based "driver" is St52, I update my NM28 copy less frequently; actual test mentioned in my previous post was performed on the (2023-11-30) build  ; I don't expect noteworthy differences in the test results across recent NM28 builds - as the relevant discussion has revealed already, the deciding factor here seems to be H/W (how powerful your CPU is) ...

43 minutes ago, mina7601 said:

and it took exactly the same time it took in St52.

Am not surprised, the underlying platform being common ; and you do possess a powerful recent machine, so, just like UCyborg reported, you achieved < 10s in test completion time...

However, we've not heard back from @anton12 yet ...

[anton12]

Hello AstroSkipper,mina7601,UCyborg and VistaLover,
Thank you very much  for your feedback !

https://www.huk24.de/zugang/registrierung/anmeldedaten

Concluding from your test results, it is obvious that NM28 and St52
can handle that verification process of the  above website.

Dear VistaLover,
In your post you ask:

Quote

"How old exactly is your CPU? Does it support the SSE2 instruction set?
  How much RAM do you have available for the browser?"

And you recommend:

Quote

"as AstroSkipper wrote, even with a very old CPU, the process would ultimately   finish"
" my advice to you is to try again with a fresh NM28 profile"

Following your advice I tested the HUK24/verification  with fresh installations
incl. fresh profiles - without any modifications - of NM28 and St52 :

basilisk/basilisk52-g4.8.win32-git-20231202-3219d2d-uxp-aa8671dc1b-xpmod-ia32

palemoon/palemoon-28.10.7a1.win32-git-20231202-d849524bd-uxp-aa8671dc1b-xpmod-sse

Since the test results of the HUK24/verification  are the same for NM28 and St52,
I focus my description on  NM28.

The hardware used is a Fujitsu Siemens Scenic PC
with a D1215 systemboard with all-Intel components
i.e. i815e , P3 CPU , max. RAM (512 MB),Intel NIC

As old fashioned as this hardware might seem, it is in fact very reliable !
And it was not designed as a gaming pc but it is an office pc
through and through, perfect for W2K-KernelEx.
I certainly would not knock this old fellow in the dust.

In your latest post you write:

Quote

"as the relevant discussion has revealed already, the deciding factor here seems to be H/W (how powerful your CPU is) ..."

Yes certainly, but concerning the above H/W specifications, we must keep in mind that  NT5.0  is an extremely lean OS compared with NT6.x
and the P3 CPU does not have to fight with a big fat sumo wrestler.

And now the HUK24/verification results with the latest NM28:

After starting NM28  and entering e-mail address and password,
the following notification is shown:

 Anti-Roboter-Verifizierung wird geladen..

This antl-robot-verification loading process goes on and on
and on and after 1 hour this loading process stops with the
notification:

  Verifizierung abgelaufen (verification run out)

Now HUK24 offers you the chance to start that whole sequence all over again.
No thanks !

The Web Console of  palemoon-28.10.7a1.win32-git-20231202-xpmod-sse
gives the following error message:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

container.buildInfo.environment is deprecated.Please use `container.environment.stage` instead  
launch-EN02f08e3456644c9888813876898d8d4a.min.js:11:12514
Error: WebGL: Failed to create WebGL context: WebGL creation failed:
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Exhausted GL driver caps.  
adb_at.js:2795:15
Error: WebGL: Failed to create WebGL context: WebGL creation failed:
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Exhausted GL driver caps.  
adb_at.js:2795:40
container.buildInfo.environment is deprecated.Please use `container.environment.stage` instead  
launch-EN02f08e3456644c9888813876898d8d4a.min.js:11:12514
Error: WebGL: Failed to create WebGL context: WebGL creation failed:
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Exhausted GL driver caps.  
vendor.f94081867aa27320.js:1:572067
Error: WebGL: Failed to create WebGL context: WebGL creation failed:
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Exhausted GL driver caps.  
vendor.f94081867aa27320.js:1:572090
{"technical":true,"functional":true,"marketing":true,"action":"accept-all"}  
anmeldedaten:2:92
Error: WebGL: Failed to create WebGL context: WebGL creation failed:
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Exhausted GL driver caps.  
vendor.f94081867aa27320.js:1:572067
Error: WebGL: Failed to create WebGL context: WebGL creation failed:
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Error during ANGLE OpenGL init.
* Exhausted GL driver caps.  
vendor.f94081867aa27320.js:1:572090
container.buildInfo.environment is deprecated.Please use `container.environment.stage` instead  
launch-EN02f08e3456644c9888813876898d8d4a.min.js:11:12514
FriendlyCaptcha failed to initialize WebAssembly, falling back to Javascript solver: ReferenceError: WebAssembly is not defined  
453dacfc-d754-439f-9049-f2ac6995f594:1:9300
FriendlyCaptcha failed to initialize WebAssembly, falling back to Javascript solver: ReferenceError: WebAssembly is not defined  
a1904e71-0a8d-49ad-bfb2-0ad668254a93:1:9300
FriendlyCaptcha failed to initialize WebAssembly, falling back to Javascript solver: ReferenceError: WebAssembly is not defined  
736c91f5-36ed-4b74-a878-c2efbf02f9ba:1:9300
FriendlyCaptcha failed to initialize WebAssembly, falling back to Javascript solver: ReferenceError: WebAssembly is not defined  
f35e145b-bff8-4cf6-9075-090e85336fdf:1:9300
container.buildInfo.environment is deprecated.Please use `container.environment.stage` instead  
launch-EN02f08e3456644c9888813876898d8d4a.min.js:11:12514
Can not start FriendlyCaptcha widget which has already been started  
p-fe8222d6.entry.js:1:40344

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lack of RAM is probably not the reason for the failure of the
antl-robot-verification loading process since of the 512 MB RAM
there were still about 230 MB RAM free.

If that Web Console error message is the consequence of a CPU
without at least SSE2 is beyond my knowledge.
What do you think ?

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by anton12

[VistaLover]

On 12/8/2023 at 3:53 AM, anton12 said:

If that Web Console error message is the consequence of a CPU
without at least SSE2 is beyond my knowledge.
What do you think ?

Top of the morning to you ; I'll be traveling soon 400km away from home, won't be back until Monday ; I had only a cursory look at your posted details (thanks!), it is now evident your CPU lacks the SSE2 instruction set by the mere fact you've installed the "-ia32" & "-sse" variants of the UXP browsers (I presume the default "-xpmod" varieties can't run on your setup ...).

Success reports thus far had to do with the "normal" SSE2+-capable NM28/St52 builds, on at least WinXP SP3 32-bit systems; your system is indeed quite old, TBH (and I have 0 experience with a Win2k+KEx system) ...

On 12/8/2023 at 3:53 AM, anton12 said:

The Web Console of  palemoon-28.10.7a1.win32-git-20231202-xpmod-sse
gives the following error message:

WebGL errors aside, I think the crux of your predicament is:

Quote

FriendlyCaptcha failed to initialize WebAssembly, falling back to Javascript solver: ReferenceError: WebAssembly is not defined

Given that you have already tried fresh profiles, the about:config pref below should be at its default value of true:

javascript.options.wasm;true

It is my belief/educated guess that the WASM code inside the Anti-Bot-Verification test emits SSE2 instructions, that your very old CPU (P3) is incapable of executing ; am afraid nothing can be done to mitigate this; I must go now, forum experts like @roytam1 or even @UCyborg are free to chime in with additional info/details, if known to them ...

Kind regards ...

Edited December 11, 2023 by VistaLover

[NotHereToPlayGames]

6 hours ago, anton12 said:

This antl-robot-verification loading process goes on and on
and on and after 1 hour this loading process stops with the
notification:

[NotHereToPlayGames]

7 hours ago, anton12 said:

The hardware used is a Fujitsu Siemens Scenic PC
with a D1215 systemboard with all-Intel components
i.e. i815e , P3 CPU , max. RAM (512 MB),Intel NIC

Without an extensive search/verification, this seems date to July thru August time frame of the year 2000.

It is a P3 and SSE was introduced in 1999 with the Pentium III.

SSE2 was introduced in 2000 with the Pentium 4.

That said, I personally do not know what the "-sse" variants of the UXP browsers really means.

Your PC can/should be able to use SSE but not SSE2.  Unknown if these UXP browsers have an SSE without SSE2 and seems to me you can/should be using SSE.