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What do we even do at this point?


sunryze
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27 minutes ago, Tonny52 said:

Just don't think about the things that I don't like and everything will be fine...

Yeah, I know how that sounds...

But realistically, many things in our lives are outside of our control and one has to keep own sanity somehow.

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3 hours ago, UCyborg said:

But realistically, many things in our lives are outside of our control and one has to keep own sanity somehow.

But then the question is, if the answer is so simple, why do so many people out there still use something like XP or Vista? I don't have a problem with that, but it is a question worthy to ask.

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I suspsed that many of us feel that MS turned evil after Vista. 

Quote

I have somewhat considered just stripping the hell out of 1607 or something, installing that on every computer I have and just leaving it like that forever

...Actually, why not :)

Edited by XPerceniol
sorry guys, having trouble posting
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19 hours ago, Gansangriff said:

Of course you'll have to shape your expectations somewhat around your OS. Brand new killer game performances on a Windows XP and Linux won't happen.

As an aside, I found out I know one of the programmers at CD Projekt RED who worked on Cyberpunk 2077. Not very high up on the totem pole, mind you, but when he found out that my daily driver is an XP64 machine it not only encouraged him to consider running an XP machine of his own for grins, but he also encouraged me to try and get Cyberpunk running on my XP64 machine given the TITAN X Maxwell can actually run the game decently (but not great). Said it would make me internet famous, haha.

That being said, I think you and @Mr.Scienceman2000 have the right of it here. In some respects it's possible to get away with using an older OS to run current software, and for that we have to thank the people who put in the work to keep the older OSes relevant. @roytam1 and the gamut of browser forks he manages, the various extended kernel projects, etc.

So, @Tonny52: look into the projects for your desired OS and see who's done what. Manage your expectations, but as Scienceman said, "don't give up using what you like just because someone told you to do so."

EDIT: Oh, and because I hadn't caught up on all the posts and saw this afterward:

6 hours ago, Tonny52 said:

But then the question is, if the answer is so simple, why do so many people out there still use something like XP or Vista? I don't have a problem with that, but it is a question worthy to ask.

From the perspective of what @UCyborg said, there's people who continue to use the older OSes (like myself) because there's enough people who do have the agency (the technical know-how, time to invest, etc.) to assert some control over and resist the planned obsolescence of older systems.

I can't speak for others as to why they personally use older OSes, but I can say that for me it was a gamut of reasons. XP64 uses the least amount of memory of all the Windows 64-bit operating systems of which I'm aware, which was a big deal for me in 2007 when I made the decision to go with that over Vista. I still really like having as much control over the RAM in my system as possible, even now with my system sporting 128 GB of it.

Also, I dislike Windows 10's telemetry. I of course took all the measures I could to minimize it on the hand-me-down Windows 10 system I have, but even then if I can do something on XP64 I'd much rather do it there. Windows 11's TPM requirements are also a turnoff for me. I can't be the only one who remembers the "Trusted Computing" Palladium FAQ from the early 2000's ...

Edited by TrevMUN
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Windows 10 is pretty much the end of the line for me as far as m$ goes. Windows 11 will be a firm hell no on my LAN.

Luckily, I don't have ginormous screens, exotic interfaces or proprietary A/V capture devices that really run best on Windows, so I can abandon modern Windows for a mixture of legacy commercial OSes and FOSS OSes and software. 

I'm posting here on a modded 360Chrome browser in Vista 32bit running on a Pentium 4; I have my Twitter feed up on my Mac Mini running Leopard in a modified Firefox build which accessses Twitter through a web rendering proxy service running on an Ubuntu Server  VM on another machine. If I push another power switch and flip to another channel on my KVM switch, I can bring up my Mageia Linux gaming machine that runs about 70% of my Steam games collection without having to futz with Proton or Wine (and the other 30% of my Steam games and my entire Gog games collection could run on a Windows 7 box of Core 2 Quad vintage easily).

For the past several years, nearly all of my work flow has been done with open-source software, even on my Windows boxes. If m$ wants to move further down the road of spying on users and controlling how they use their computers, that's fine with me. I already had one foot out the door anyway.

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7 hours ago, Tonny52 said:

But then the question is, if the answer is so simple, why do so many people out there still use something like XP or Vista?

They compute differently. Software I use by itself sets the bar to Win7 at bare minimum.

I've spent enough time with each OS to know for a fact what works for me and what doesn't. What others use is of no significance to me.

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10 hours ago, Tonny52 said:

But then the question is, if the answer is so simple, why do so many people out there still use something like XP or Vista? I don't have a problem with that, but it is a question worthy to ask.

For me it originally started from frustration and hate towards Windows 8. Back in 2014 I was still running Windows XP and all sudden everyone were like "OMG xp is out of support, it will be flooded with viruses, it is totally unusable to anything, upgrade to windoze 8." and I hated it. There was plenty of Microsoft propaganda going on to increase sales of Windoze 8 for those who wanted OS that actually worked properly out of box and was designed for non bacon grease covered monitors.

 

I decided to keep using Windows XP until life decided that I wont and was forced use that piece of s#it called office 365 on my personal system. So I decided take last sensible OS called Windows 7. Few years passed and I was sticking with Windows 7 and eventually was rooting for it. It was very decent operating system and had ACTUAL IMPROVEMENTS in my usage. During that time my XP pc fell out of use since I had no time for fun like before.

 

Then Windoze 10 came out that was free update and MS forced it into my pc against my will (since that hidden option to force update to Windoze 10) and at that point it was personal for me. It messed up my computer totally and I had redo everything. If you need to force OS for some doesn't that mean there is something horribly wrong by design? Also everyone were so love with their Windoze 10 systems and praised Microsoft and were insisting everyone to use it and being hostitle to those who did not want it.

I eventually ended up giving it a shot saying that I will never go back to older Windows versions.

As vanilla it was horrible to use so I ended up installing classic shell and some other mods and it was more ok but still felt buggy and also someone in Microsoft  decided that consumers were still not harmed enough when they added new useless task bars , then they decided to disallow disabling "anti consumer inexperience" aka bloatware downloader on home and pro edition of Windows. That combined with inability to pick what updates to download like on Windows 7 and older plus settings resetting after updates I decided I had enough and rolled back to Windows 7.

 

When I mentioned what though from Windows 10 and what could be improved everyone were so insulted like I would have kicked a dog. It is just a software and not everyone want to use what you like. But everyone were thinking Microsoft was their friend and cared from them actually and that is why any critic was not ok. That point around 2015-2016 I decided to permanently ban Windows 10 on my personal network and stick with Windows 7 and newcomer Windows XP that was back in game I also got rid of most of internet services at that point and wont regret it. Then micracle happened and I was no longer required run any of those software on my personal system. It felt so good to install what I wanted and not install anything forcefully.

 

Then Windows 7 eol date came and felt like I was last man standing behind using older OS. Everyone were thinking older Windows was only good for retrogaming and if you plugged into any network it would get flooded with viruses and hackers would turn into botnet even I knew that was bulls#it. Then I found site called MSFN.org while was looking some XP compatible browser and well here I am.

I know this is long answer but you asked why and here is why. At this point in time I am fine for anyone use whatever they want BUT DO NOT TELL ME WHAT OS TO USE. I do not care if you got Windoze 10 or 11 and got picture of Microsoft CEO on it and you worship it, but do not push it down everyone throat. Some are too simple minded to see choice of os or choice of anything in this world. All is forced in this world liked or not and most are fine with it since "someone else knows you benefit better than you"

And if someone think I am stupid, diehard or anything else because I said this then it must be that way. I do not have to please anyone.

Edited by Mr.Scienceman2000
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13 hours ago, TrevMUN said:

So, @Tonny52: look into the projects for your desired OS and see who's done what. Manage your expectations, but as Scienceman said, "don't give up using what you like just because someone told you to do so."

I know that Windows XP, Vista, 7, 8, 8.1 and the really old versions of 10 like 1507 or 1511 are a no-go for me. I've been with modern Win10 for so long that I have gotten used to some of the features. Absolute oldest I could use would be 1607/1703 era. I'm just so stuck in the whole Windows 10 feature update dilemma, because I have been using it since release, that using something older just feels odd to me. I can do it, but not easily.

11 hours ago, comp_ed82 said:

Windows 10 is pretty much the end of the line for me as far as m$ goes. Windows 11 will be a firm hell no on my LAN.

Luckily, I don't have ginormous screens, exotic interfaces or proprietary A/V capture devices that really run best on Windows, so I can abandon modern Windows for a mixture of legacy commercial OSes and FOSS OSes and software.

The issue with Windows 11 for me is that I just don't like it. I've thought about it like this. Essentially, Windows 10 is the OS that I used most. I have been using it more than I did 7, 8.1, and XP. So because of Windows 11, I am in a situation that many people were back in 2015. They wished that Windows 10 didn't exist, and I wish that Windows 11 didn't exist, but that is not possible. My two choices is to stay on Windows 10, or go to Windows 11 at some point. I don't want to do either of them. Now I am just hoping Linux becomes a player in my book in a few years.

10 hours ago, UCyborg said:

They compute differently. Software I use by itself sets the bar to Win7 at bare minimum.

Because of my hardware, Windows 7 still supports a good amount of my stuff, but not well.

Essentially, I am stuck having to choose what I like about something I don't like. I don't want to keep using Windows 10 as it is.

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@Tonny: Do you have a necktie nearby? Anyways, let's talk business. If you learn to tinker with Linux, with all the troubles you'll encounter, that's one step in the door of the IT industry. Probably a good place to be at the moment (moneywise, if that's a concern). So the troubles with Linux will pay off, I think.

Give Linux a second thought. New Windows versions won't go in the direction that you like. This comapany would rape you if it brings them money. So to have some options on the table is not the worst thing.

Why the old Windows OS? Always a combination with the hardware that is in use. You can get old computers for free, but of course they are underpowered for a current Windows. Why Windows then at all if Linux is the holy grail? Some programs are better on Windows. I prefer the old PhotoImpact against mtPaint and Gimp for example. Dual-boot, get the best from both worlds, and have fun with your computer.

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3 hours ago, Gansangriff said:

If you learn to tinker with Linux, with all the troubles you'll encounter, that's one step in the door of the IT industry.

Now I understand why we have to deal with an absolute crap software in the last 15 years. 

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On 12/18/2021 at 7:28 AM, TrevMUN said:

he also encouraged me to try and get Cyberpunk running on my XP64 

Trolling lvl 168 . I'm sure you know Cyberpunk 2077 is directx12 only , not to mention it's buggy as hell. And XP is what , 9.0b maximum ? Or smth like that.

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On 12/17/2021 at 8:10 PM, Tonny52 said:

I can probably use anything 1703 and newer. I don't like using 7 and 8.1 nowadays due to support and stuff, 1507, 1511 and 1607 have problems with me. I don't like explorer in 1709 and 1803. I don't entirely enjoy enablement packages. So that limits it to 1703, 1809, 1903, 2004, and ill add 21H2 into the mix. Linux is missing some useful features I use.

It seems you already decided to stay on Win10 long time ago and no matter what , so what's the point ? 

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13 minutes ago, Dixel said:

Trolling lvl 168 . I'm sure you know Cyberpunk 2077 is directx12 only , not to mention it's buggy as hell. And XP is what , 9.0b maximum ? Or smth like that.

There was a reason I had mentioned the kernel extension projects. The group working on OneCore API has had success getting the XP family of OSes to run DirectX 10 games. There's a few other screenshots like that on their site.

I would have given OneCore API a spin already, but before I do that I plan on backing up my system just in case.

And to be clear, I don't doubt that getting Cyberpunk to run on XP would be a tall order. It's not very high on my list of priorities, but hey; apparently CDPR provided some assistance to Windows 7 users wanting to run the game, even though 7 doesn't have DX12 support. It would be an interesting challenge to see if some combination of these tricks could pull it off.

Edited by TrevMUN
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1 hour ago, TrevMUN said:

wait...company provides support effort for other than Windoze 10 or 11? I guess ms forgot bribe them or they did not have leg breaking deal. Either way that is good if I ever want to run it (it must be cyberpunk first and not cyberjunk)

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