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Palemoon drama has gotten bad


Wunderbar98

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The markup validator works properly on your site so I can't point out an example of what I mean. Validator will ignore the presence of duplicate singular tags such as Doctype, HTML, Body, Head. The browsers do this also, but they didn't use to. These tags which are only supposed to appear once happen because includes (especially from external source) will have them. For the CSS validator, it should be tripping up on duplicate selectors that occur when sites use multiple external linked CSS and/or inline CSS within html but it doesn't. As soon as it became apparent that the rigidity of browsers went away was when I stopped writing webpages. I had come from a time when the browsers actually expected correct code and no shortcuts and if you did something wrong, it wouldn't work.

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Since SeaMonkey was mentioned, the browser part looks interesting. Similar to classic Firefox GUI wise, but different enough that extensions need some amount of tailoring towards it. At first glance, it may have a little bit more support for web bells and whistles than UXP browsers or maybe SeaMonkey has something that UXP doesn't or the other way around.

I'll give it a spin, curious about memory usage, leaks in particular. I have a hard time imagining classic Firefox like browser that frees all associated memory when closing sites/tabs.

That stupid web app I have to suffer with at work...those NPCs there finally broke working JavaScript for good so a bunch of pages don't load anymore in current versions of UXP browsers, SeaMonkey, Chromium 71 >=... I haven't checked the corresponding Firefox version... Guess I need another browser just for that piece of crap.

On 2/24/2022 at 3:59 PM, Tripredacus said:

I had come from a time when the browsers actually expected correct code and no shortcuts and if you did something wrong, it wouldn't work.

As it should be!

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6 minutes ago, UCyborg said:

Since SeaMonkey was mentioned, the browser part looks interesting. Similar to classic Firefox GUI wise, but different enough that extensions need some amount of tailoring towards it. At first glance, it may have a little bit more support for web bells and whistles than UXP browsers or maybe SeaMonkey has something that UXP doesn't or the other way around.

I'll give it a spin, curious about memory usage, leaks in particular. I have a hard time imagining classic Firefox like browser that frees all associated memory when closing sites/tabs.

That stupid web app I have to suffer with at work...those NPCs there finally broke working JavaScript for good so a bunch of pages don't load anymore in current versions of UXP browsers, SeaMonkey, Chromium 71 >=...

You mean Chromium < 71, right?

A lot of breakage seems to have happened right around there.

See release notes, "Specific Polyfills": https://github.com/InterLinked1/chromefill

6 minutes ago, UCyborg said:

I haven't checked the corresponding Firefox version... Guess I need another browser just for that piece of crap.

As it should be!

 

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I've personally "given up" on UXP browsers  :whistle:

360Chrome v11 (Chromium 69) has been able to do 99% of everything I've thrown at it then I use 360Chrome v13 (Chromium 86) for that tiny 1%.

I kinda don't see myself returning to anything-Mozilla until @feodor2's Mypal "2.0" hits the scene (very likely delayed due to recent geopolitical events) - looking forward to seeing what it will have to offer.

 

Please stay safe, @feodor2

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6 minutes ago, InterLinked said:

You mean Chromium < 71, right?

Chromium 72 can handle it, 71 doesn't. Something about classes, fields in them, not sure, didn't find any similar examples.

I meant to say it doesn't work in versions less or equal to 71. Though the actual >= operator in C and other languages means greater or equal to, but since 71 was on the left side, I guess it still came out right. :dubbio:

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Alright, I've calmed down. I'll just use ChrEdge for the app at work in the future. Its target audience are business users and most just use auto-updating Chrome anyway and if some bells and whistles make devs' lives easier, good for them.

So I tried SeaMonkey over the weekend and did detect some memory that was just never freed without restarting. Tried it on both Windows and Linux. Nothing new that I'm not used to already. -_-

I like that it's still single-process, this whole multi-process philosophy just doesn't fly as well with me, though that doesn't mean I avoid multi-process browsers entirely.

4 GB of RAM can get tight as it is. My mobo supports max 8 GB and I thought about upgrading at multiple occasions, but it stops at me not feeling looking around for DDR2 RAM from the museum and then hope it works with my motherboard. I still get by OK more or less, but sometimes some extra GB would be nice.

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At home, I only use 2 browsers (well IE is ever present) and they are Palemoon and Chrome. And that is a 32bit PC with 4 GB RAM, and it has been for a couple years now I can say that 4 GB on 32bit is not ideal for using the web for long periods of time. The two main examples I can give is that Chrome on Facebook will work for about 5-10 minutes before a tab crashes because it runs out of memory. The other sites I use don't have that issue but they do not use a continuous feed like Facebook does. As a result, I have dropped my Facebook usage down considerably, now to the point of not being aware of events that are occuring. (It happened to me that I happened to have gone to a place that had an event I was invited to but didn't know, and the event was occuring then. But of course I was late.) Palemoon never had a tab crash but I don't use a continuous site on it like FB. Instead over long periods of time, a memory leak or memory issue still will occur, but the result is that the browser will stop loading images after a period of time.

In either of the cases of the browsers having memory issues, they go away once I close the browser. Sometimes I have to kill the process in Task Manager. This 32bit PC is the one that is never rebooted.

I will have to change the configuration of that computer eventually, I'm just not sure how I want to go about doing it.

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My daughter's pc that I recently converted to Linux also has 4 GB of RAM.
I have tried Edge, it consumes less RAM than Chrome but is less fast.
Firefox is also less fast despite the fact that I have cached it in RAM.
For the test I used Spedometer 2.0.

P.S. 

Feodor2 is almost certainly enlisted in the Ukrainian army
You can tell from what he wrote 3g.

I made for you the translation from his language to English.

 

Quote

In the near future will not be released, and I have a suspicion that soon we will not need browsers at all, there will be nothing and nothing, I can only promise that if after the war I will survive and will still exist the Internet I will lay out.....................

@feodor2

Try to have a thousand eyes and be very careful my friend.:(

Edited by Sampei.Nihira
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/1/2022 at 5:45 PM, Sampei.Nihira said:

My daughter's pc that I recently converted to Linux also has 4 GB of RAM.
I have tried Edge, it consumes less RAM than Chrome but is less fast.
Firefox is also less fast despite the fact that I have cached it in RAM.
For the test I used Spedometer 2.0.

Firefox 96 and Edge 94 are tied on my end on Windows 10 - 43.6.

Don't have Edge on Linux anymore, have Vivaldi instead, forgot to note the version...I guess one of the latest 5.0.x or earliest 5.1.x. They come out slower in this test - Vivaldi wins with 37.0 and Firefox 96 lags behind with 24.6.

Additionally, I ran the test on Pale Moon 29.4.4 and SeaMonkey 2.53.11 beta 1 on Windows, PM scored only 13.4 while SeaMonkey got 27.

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On 2/28/2022 at 6:43 PM, UCyborg said:

I'll just use ChrEdge for the app at work in the future.

Actually figured I still like Firefox better...think I'll reserve ChrEdge for sites wanting Chromium exclusive bells and whistles...

11 hours ago, Jody Thornton said:

Pale Moon 30 has been released, and apparently, it's no longer built on UXP.

Does it mean anything of significance in practice? Seems they shuffled things around and gave it a new name.

Edited by UCyborg
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6 hours ago, UCyborg said:

Actually figured I still like Firefox better...think I'll reserve ChrEdge for sites wanting Chromium exclusive bells and whistles...

Does it mean anything of significance in practice? Seems they shuffled things around and gave it a new name.

I suppose I wondered if Roytam1 can continue making browsers from this base.  Just curious.

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7 hours ago, UCyborg said:

Does it mean anything of significance in practice?

I'll say, "No, it doesn't mean anything of significance."

Maybe it could "in the future" but I ran official Pale Moon 28, latest New Moon 28, and official Pale Moon 30 in several benchmark tests and all tests basically showed the same.

That being official 28 and 30 being basically equivalent in scores and New Moon scoring slightly worse.

 

edit - I did have to disable WebGL in all three because all three would crash on various benchmark tests with WebGL enabled.  Win7 with Intel i3.

Edited by NotHereToPlayGames
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