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My Browser Builds (Part 3)


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3 hours ago, NotHereToPlayGames said:

This isn't Facebook or Instagram or Twitter or TikTok or YouTube or Reddit or Vimeo.  Our "value" here has NOTHING to do with "upvotes".

Has nothing to do with facebook , it's like a sign of appreciation for me or just showing that I'm agree. You don't want me to do it ? Fine , no prob. ,man .

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3 hours ago, InterLinked said:

If I disable smoothing in Windows 7, it looks like this:

image.png.0dde1c0e3472e710d843bfebc9379932.png

Isn't that the same result?

And here it is with dark theme in Windows 7:

image.png.d8fccd60041e97dcad334fef369c85e1.png

I fail to see how WIN7 is evil... Win8+ though, yes, definitely!

 

And now compare , LOL

Vista is COOL.png

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12 minutes ago, D.Draker said:

Has nothing to do with facebook , it's like a sign of appreciation for me or just showing that I'm agree. You don't want me to do it ? Fine , no prob. ,man .

Let people use it the way that they themselves see fit.  Nothing for or against.
I disagree with "asking" for upvotes, I disagree with "pointing out" upvotes, I disagree with people following people around like shadows upvoting anything and everything that their "shadow-mate" upvotes only to drive up each other's "meaningless tally".

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19 minutes ago, D.Draker said:

Seems like we are going to be under a heavy attack

Nah, I wouldn't say "we" because I kinda don't care if Win 7 users agree with me or not.  "Disagreements" and "attacks" are not one-in-the-same.

The "update servers for 2000, XP, (and Vista?) as of July 2019" thread kinda tells us everything we need to know.

Oh, and the "KernelEx for Win2000" thread.

They've been among the most ACTIVE thread for DAYS.

People really don't flock to MSFN (in my opinion, no statistics to back up this "perception") for 7 or 8 or 10.

But we get a lot of users for 2000, XP, and Vista.

And when 7 is officially retired, we'll start getting more 7s.

Edited by NotHereToPlayGames
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3 hours ago, NotHereToPlayGames said:

7 is officially retired

You missed that more than two years ago . Windows 7 support ended on January 14, 2020

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-7-support-ended-on-january-14-2020-b75d4580-2cc7-895a-2c9c-1466d9a53962

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Just now, D.Draker said:

You missed that more than two years ago . Windows 7 support ended on January 14, 2020

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-7-support-ended-on-january-14-2020-b75d4580-2cc7-895a-2c9c-1466d9a53962

I think maybe he's referring to when Microsoft actually drops support for it completely (when ESU and POS ends) as opposed to what they want consumers to think.

Regardless of the availability or PR campaign Microsoft is running, Windows 7 is still supported at least until next year.

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8 hours ago, UCyborg said:

I used CRT computer screen was at least 15 years ago, so no clue how any browser/OS fonts would appear with different settings on those.

Ironically that may be the solution: CRTs just don't "do" sub-pixel font rendering. I guess in theory they could, but you'd have to set up a custom screen resolution that exactly matched the details of the CRT's shadow mask, and only a Trinitron-style CRT could possibly work with ClearType.

OTOH, a CRT may make things worse on an OS that "assumes" sub-pixel font rendering is always possible.

FWIW, I don't think Win 7 is "evil," but if you can't stand to look at it, it's pretty useless to you.

(I do have a few very old but working CRT monitors lying around; if anyone wants one PM me. Pay for shipping and they're yours.)

As for myself, sub-pixel font rendering has always looked great as long as the colors involved were black and white; but when other colors get used, it starts to look pretty awful.

3 hours ago, InterLinked said:

If I disable smoothing in Windows 7, it looks like this:

image.png.0dde1c0e3472e710d843bfebc9379932.png

Looks fine. Unfortunately we're all trying to render that image on our own monitors, so it may not look to us the same way it looks to you!

I had no idea the vagaries of font rendering were causing so many of us so much grief. Too bad M$ isn't listening. Now, what were we talking about again? Oh, yes....

9 hours ago, UCyborg said:

I suspect only Internet Explorer is keeping them from going nuts with recent JS bells and whistles[.] I had to report a bug a while back since those damn ?? appeared in the code.

I never thought I'd say this, but thank M$ for IE!

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1 hour ago, Mathwiz said:

Looks fine. Unfortunately we're all trying to render that image on our own monitors, so it may not look to us the same way it looks to you!

Might depend on fonts used. Win7 itself with default fonts looks fine to me as well, I think oddities I've seen happen with certain fonts fetched from various web pages. Wish I had technical explanation. The UI of Win98 for instance also looks fine by default.

4 hours ago, NotHereToPlayGames said:

People really don't flock to MSFN (in my opinion, no statistics to back up this "perception") for 7 or 8 or 10.

OldNewExplorer is probably statistically most demanded tool on this forum, its thread has over 2,2m views (visible on page 2 of StartIsBack+ subforum currently).

2 hours ago, Mathwiz said:

FWIW, I don't think Win 7 is "evil," but if you can't stand to look at it, it's pretty useless to you.

I always found assigning human characteristics to inanimate objects odd.

I think there's too much drama here at times and these discussions which OS is better practically never go anywhere, everyone seems to only see things from their own perspective.

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23 minutes ago, UCyborg said:

I always found assigning human characteristics to inanimate objects odd.

Yes, it is. Often it's a kind of shorthand: I often say, "this program is stupid" when what I really mean is "this program was designed stupidly." Similarly, I think describing an OS as "evil" is usually shorthand for ascribing evil motives to its designers.

In the case above, though, I think "ugly" may have been a better adjective, since the complaint was about appearance, not (say) telemetry.

We'll never all agree on which OS is the most pleasing to the eye, let alone "best." To each his own; that's one reason MSFN exists!

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1 hour ago, UCyborg said:

OldNewExplorer is probably statistically most demanded tool on this forum, its thread has over 2,2m views (visible on page 2 of StartIsBack+ subforum currently).

True.  Not familiar with it.  But do see it was started in 2013 and hasn't been posted to in over 4 months or so.

Geuss I was thinking more along the lines of seeing posts pop up in the "Unread Content" / "Activity" links and thinking to myself "don't care" and not even reading them, lol.

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roytam1, why can't I still install extensions from the SeaMonkey browser in your build of the Iceape-UXP browser? For example, the FoxyProxy Standard 4.6.5 extension. I get error that the extension is incompatible with Iceape-UXP.

Edited by Egorkaru
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13 hours ago, Mathwiz said:

Ironically that may be the solution: CRTs just don't "do" sub-pixel font rendering. I guess in theory they could, but you'd have to set up a custom screen resolution that exactly matched the details of the CRT's shadow mask, and only a Trinitron-style CRT could possibly work with ClearType.

OTOH, a CRT may make things worse on an OS that "assumes" sub-pixel font rendering is always possible.

For me it would make worse... I salvaged a CRT monitor that was in the recycling pile a few months ago for an "additional" monitor, never mind that it took up half my desk space on its own.

Didn't work too well, as I got serious eyestrain from it to the point of being almost half blind in one eye (went away after it was turned off for 20 or 30 minutes). I think it might have been some radiation leakage when turning it off or on, since it made some crackly sounds and when turning it on subsequent times, if I looked in the other direction, I didn't quite have that issue.

Nonetheless, a bunch of nicer Dell LCDs were getting recycled not much later, so I sent the CRT back to the recycling pile and picked those up instead! In fact, I'm using one of those monitors right now! (It's the super-duper Dell monitor from 2007 that has every connector known to man on the back - seriously there are like 10 or 15 inputs - VGA, DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort, S-Video, USB, etc. It's the same one that gets really hot - hotter than a computer would, typically, as heat dissipation's apparently nonexistent on this thing.

13 hours ago, Mathwiz said:

FWIW, I don't think Win 7 is "evil," but if you can't stand to look at it, it's pretty useless to you.

(I do have a few very old but working CRT monitors lying around; if anyone wants one PM me. Pay for shipping and they're yours.)

 

I had one as well that I offered at the time; nobody bit so who knows where it is now.

A real shame, as I don't discount the value of CRTs in and of themselves, but practically speaking, they didn't make sense for me. Still a shame to get rid of it though.

 

13 hours ago, Mathwiz said:

As for myself, sub-pixel font rendering has always looked great as long as the colors involved were black and white; but when other colors get used, it starts to look pretty awful.

Looks fine. Unfortunately we're all trying to render that image on our own monitors, so it may not look to us the same way it looks to you!

I had no idea the vagaries of font rendering were causing so many of us so much grief. Too bad M$ isn't listening. Now, what were we talking about again? Oh, yes....

I never thought I'd say this, but thank M$ for IE!

Indeed... I'm more upset with browsers that push their own crap JS "standards" than those that simply follow the rules (like IE11 does, more or less...)

I was writing some JavaScript yesterday for a websockets-based application, and as I was referencing different things (I usually do PHP for web programming, rarely JS, since I rarely have a legitimate need for it) I found one that said "won't work on < IE 8" and at the time that was posted, that would have been a serious concern. Even now, that's about as much compatibility as I'm willing to trade off: anything I do has to work in IE11 if reasonably possible (I think websockets aren't supported, but my realtime chat service has an AJAX-based fallback so that service still works fine in IE11).

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5 hours ago, Egorkaru said:

roytam1, why can't I still install extensions from the SeaMonkey browser in your build of the Iceape-UXP browser? For example, the FoxyProxy Standard 4.6.5 extension. I get error that the extension is incompatible with Iceape-UXP.

you need to modify both install.rdf and chrome.manifest in order to get it working.

you may try my modded version: http://o.rthost.win/boc-uxp/foxyproxy_standard-4.6.5-pm.xpi

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roytam1, why do the following browsers still not support the ECDHE_ECDSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 cipher suite?:

Because of this, in the above browsers on the site https://lurkmore.to, images from the domain https://lurkmore.so are not loaded via HTTPS. I get errors about unsupported encryption protocols. Adding security.ssl3.ecdhe_ecdsa_aes_256_gcm_sha384 = true to about:config doesn't help.

Edited by Egorkaru
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