Tripredacus Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Check it yourself on your Win 7 system... From an elevated CMD window, do this DIR command: DIR C:\Api-ms-win-core-*.* /s Files of this type go back to Vista at least. These names are not always their actual names, but names in this format is what is commonly displayed in Dependency Walker. These are almost always indicative that a redist package is missing. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17023419/win-7-64-bit-dll-problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelC Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 (edited) So I guess the question is: Does an update that adds / updates stub files need to be hidden? As an experiment I installed it and sure enough some 7 folders were created or updated (modification time shows the time at which I installed the update): C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-minkernelapinamespace_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.18923_none_68cc15ff92788e54 C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-minkernelapinamespace_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.18933_none_68c146139280aa45 C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-minkernelapinamespace_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.19110_none_68d3bf15927356c7 C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-minkernelapinamespace_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.23126_none_69588bcaab93ad65 C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-minkernelapinamespace_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.23136_none_694dbbdeab9bc956 C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-minkernelapinamespace_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.23226_none_69588db0ab93aa8c C:\Windows\winsxs\amd64_microsoft-windows-minkernelapinamespace_31bf3856ad364e35_6.1.7601.23313_none_69605ea4ab8e3fbd None of these seem to have much substance, being only a few kbytes in size. There are a lot of the same names in different folders, but with different contents. Differences between a file in each of two of the above folders reveals: -Noel Edited January 15, 2016 by NoelC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
submix8c Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 One is GDR, the other is LDR.I believe there's an explanation "somewhere" (or a link to it) here on MSFN. What you're seeing is some kind of Updates tracking mechanism for WU (AFAICT). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dencorso Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 So I guess the question is: Does an update that adds / updates stub files need to be hidden? In principle, no. Now, even if they're just stubs, if all they serve for is enabling to run things from Win 10 on previous Win versions, as claimed by MS, then I do think it becomes the case of hiding, all right! So, in this case, my answer remains: in theory, no, but in fact, yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoelC Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Still a bit vague... If an application (note the full spelling) built with the Windows 10 SDK needs that change to be able to run on Windows 7 or 8.1, that would probably be a good thing. It might imply software built with the latest tools will still be compatible with Windows 7 or 8.1 - with this update. "Universal CRT" does not imply "Universal" Apps (nor "Cathode Ray Tube") as far as I can tell. It might be something made up to obfuscate easy identification of things that are Windows 10-specific, though. I build applications (again, noting the full spelling - NOT Apps!) using Visual Studio 2015, with the latest SDK, and it's entirely possible those applications may need this update to work properly. It's not clear what would happen if it's not there... Maybe things would work but be potentially flaky. Consider functions like IsWindows10OrGreater(), which can in theory only be used (i.e., successfully linked) if the software is built with the Windows 10 SDK. You COULD of course eschew any application that embraces Windows 10 even a little bit, but that sounds to me like a process that will dead-end your older system (which you'd like to keep running) sooner rather than later. -Noel Edited January 17, 2016 by NoelC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dencorso Posted January 17, 2016 Author Share Posted January 17, 2016 So I guess the question is: Does an update that adds / updates stub files need to be hidden?In principle, no. Now, even if they're just stubs, if all they serve for is enabling to run things from Win 10 on previous Win versions, as claimed by MS, then I do think it becomes the case of hiding, all right! So, in this case, my answer remains: in theory, no, but in fact, yes! Still a bit vague... If an application (note the full spelling) built with the Windows 10 SDK needs that change to be able to run on Windows 7 or 8.1, that would probably be a good thing. It might imply software built with the latest tools will still be compatible with Windows 7 or 8.1 - with this update. "Universal CRT" does not imply "Universal" Apps (nor "Cathode Ray Tube") as far as I can tell. It might be something made up to obfuscate easy identification of things that are Windows 10-specific, though. [...] Of course, YMMV. I'm trying to keep to the principle of listing all updates that, IMO, smell of mischief.Some are obvious and there's quite a consensus about them. Some are controverse, like this one.Then again, you could duplicate your 10 VM, remove it from the duplicate, and demonstrate whether it actually is benefical or not. AFAICS, they've taken the hint from Xeno86 or BlackWingCat and just released an official bunch of stubs to backport things 10 into previous Win versions, and that, in and of itself, should be harmless... provided one wants things 10 to run on them, and that's where we disagree. I concede you may be right, but then, as I said before, it's just a question of adding the update when and if it proves to be needed, not before. One can keep a copy of it forever on an archive disk, or until said need arises, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn9999 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) Consider functions like IsWindows10OrGreater(), which can in theory only be used (i.e., successfully linked) if the software is built with the Windows 10 SDK.Not to steal your thunder in the conversation, but I thought I'd point out that this is a simple macro which calls a function (VerifyVersionInfo) that has existed since Windows 2000. Edit: FWIW, the only real "issue" I've read about over running things on Windows 10 so far is version reporting functions (GetVersionEx, VerifyVersionInfo, etc). These will not return a correct version number as of the newest Windows 8.1s unless the application is explicitly manifested for those versions. This reflects Microsoft's application compatibility change, which leaves it up to the application for versioning instead of the OS. Edited January 17, 2016 by Glenn9999 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathletic Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 I predict that one or more of the following will happen soon...1. Microsoft will extend the free update period.Given the evident desperation that Msoft are displaying in all of this, they'll do this to capture more and more machines; it seems unlikely that they'll let go of this bone readily. Then, of course, the speculation about their truly nefarious intent will end, and will, instead, be proven - although some plantpots will no doubt call it kindness on Msoft's part, and laud them for it. Even if they do reach payment time for Win 10, while the nagging to update may stop, it seems unlikely that the snooping updates will stop. They've seen how much we are prepared to put up with, and they obviously feel very powerful right now. Or just don't care.2. Microsoft will renege on the 7 and 8 support schedules.The recent outrageous statement that Windows 7 is unsafe sounded to me like a precursor warning that they intend dropping it sooner rather than later. If a similar statement is made about 8, then we'll know that we've all been abandoned.3. Microsoft will produce a once-longed-for Service Pack 2 for Windows 7.This SP2 will contain all the nasties that we (have been\are being) careful to avoid. This will be a cynical mopping-up operation to ensnare the half-hearted, unobservant, or distracted naysayers. Anyone here going to install that doozy? Hands up. So that's no one, then.Despite a long and fruitful, and largely enjoyable relationship with Windows, (95, 98SE, XP, 7 - I missed all the duffers) I too have installed Linux Mint alongside my 7, and am familiarising myself with it ready for the day. Sad, but true, and, I fear, inevitable now for many. They may come to regret this attack on us and our machines. I hope so. Come the day, I will install a clean 7, and turn off updates completely, just to be able to run those Windows-specific programs I own - assuming they allow me to do that, of course. (I'm a user, not a programmer, and so I am under no illusion that I can win and ultimately defeat any attack they execute - other than reinstall, take image, and install that image every four weeks. It's something, at least.)This current debacle has elicited a change in forum threads. Over the years, in any thread, anywhere, seeking help with a Windows problem, there was always at least one of, "Just ditch Windows and move to Linux." Linux users are now silent because the previously loyal Windows users are now suggesting it themselves. Sign of the times.I'll add my thanks for ALL the advice, links, and maintenance in this thread. It is appreciated.I'm retired, and unlike most of you, this is now just a hobby - I'm not doing anything important with my machines, and so, I'm actually quite enjoying the chase. Something to do while I wait for Half Life 3. Steam works fine on Mint. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TELVM Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 ^ That's a well put post by Mathlectic. ... I'm actually quite enjoying the chase. Something to do while I wait for Half Life 3 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcalvert Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 A friend sent this to me today: Microsoft Reveals Real Cost Of 'Free' Windows 10 Phil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTDirector Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 There is a new update for Windows 7 and 8.1 wich advertise for Windows 10 features, the KB3123862 : "The update adds capabilities to some computers that lets users easily learn about Windows 10 or start an upgrade to Windows 10." https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3123862 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeA Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 I predict that one or more of the following will happen soon...[...]2. Microsoft will renege on the 7 and 8 support schedules.The recent outrageous statement that Windows 7 is unsafe sounded to me like a precursor warning that they intend dropping it sooner rather than later. If a similar statement is made about 8, then we'll know that we've all been abandoned.3. Microsoft will produce a once-longed-for Service Pack 2 for Windows 7.This SP2 will contain all the nasties that we (have been\are being) careful to avoid. This will be a cynical mopping-up operation to ensnare the half-hearted, unobservant, or distracted naysayers. Anyone here going to install that doozy? Hands up. So that's no one, then. Welcome, Mathletic, Great post! Your points 2 and 3 could be accomplished in one stroke, by issuing that Service Pack 2 for Windows 7. Because the release of a SP shortens the support period for the previous SP, Microsoft could say that it's now "Windows 7 SP2" that will be supported until 2020 and not the current SP1, with the Win7 we know and love reaching EOS in (say) 2018. And of course that SP2 would contain all the stuff we don't want. Like you, I'm exploring making the switch to Linux if and when running Windows 7 becomes untenable. --JorgeA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JorgeA Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 There is a new update for Windows 7 and 8.1 wich advertise for Windows 10 features, the KB3123862 : "The update adds capabilities to some computers that lets users easily learn about Windows 10 or start an upgrade to Windows 10." https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3123862 Thanks for the warning! One more update to look out for, in case it turns from an optional update into a "recommended" one. --JorgeA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dencorso Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 There is a new update for Windows 7 and 8.1 wich advertise for Windows 10 features, the KB3123862 : "The update adds capabilities to some computers that lets users easily learn about Windows 10 or start an upgrade to Windows 10." https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3123862 Thank you! List updated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dencorso Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 Like you, I'm exploring making the switch to Linux if and when running Windows 7 becomes untenable. There are really 3 options... Linux, BSD (FreeBSD, OpenBSD or NetBSD) and maybe Illumos (former OpenSolaris). And ... well ... maybe ... Hackintosh ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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