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dencorso

How to avoid being "upgraded to Win 10" against your will:

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The ongoing question still seems to be this:

 

1.  You're taking on additional risk that Microsoft's foot-in-the-door boot size will get bigger if you DO accept updates to the Windows Update process itself.

 

2.  You're taking on additional risk that Windows Update will no longer work if you DON'T accept updates to the Windows Update process itself.

 

While item 2 might seem more like a feature than a bug, it is a consideration when hiding all recent updates to the Windows Update process itself.  It's not hard to imagine them changing software on the servers so as to make it only possible to get updates successfully when you have the updated client software.  We have already seen that with an older version for Win 7 getting updates became mosasses-slow, right?

 

Now, don't get me wrong - I don't advocate getting Windows Updates at all any more without a really good reason - but it seems naïve to me to just think that stopping updates to the Windows Update process itself will be without any downsides.

 

-Noel

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NoelC and others - My home Win 7 machine now shows two updates available:

KB3118401, captioned "Update for Universal C Runtime in Windows",

 

As soon as I saw the magic words "Universal" and "Windows 10" mentioned on the KB page, as per my personal policy I hid the update.

 

This should probably be discussed...

 

From the KB article:

 

The Windows 10 Universal CRT is a Windows operating system component that enables CRT functionality on the Windows operating system. This update allows Windows desktop applications that depend on the Windows 10 Universal CRT release to run on earlier Windows operating systems.

Microsoft Visual Studio 2015 creates a dependency on the Universal CRT when applications are built by using the Windows 10 Software Development Kit (SDK). You can install this update on earlier Windows operating systems to enable these applications to run correctly.

 

What this says to me is that if a software developer has upgraded his software development environment to build against the Windows 10 Software Development Kit (something you get with Visual Studio 2015, even if you're not running Windows 10), and the developer uses the C runtime library functions (e.g., strcpy, printf, etc. which is quite common to do) in the application (note that I didn't say App, this could be a traditional desktop application), it may need to find a copy of the appropriate C runtime library DLL on the target system

 

Developers ARE using the latest SDKs and tools - it benefits them to do so.

 

Many developers provide an installer that makes sure to re-distribute the needed run time libraries to older systems.  Others statically link the library into their code (which I prefer).  In those cases, you would not need this update for that software to work properly on your older system.  Having the update in place already might make the installation process quicker, because the installer might recognize that the needed library is already present.  Or it might not.  Not all programmers always get all the dependencies right!

 

That's all probably programmer gobbledygook to most folks.

 

What it may mean to you is:

 

If you expect to run a brand new version of a commercial or free software application on your older OS, there's a chance that the application won't work (or won't work quite right) without this update! 

 

I think I sense that Microsoft, with the naming and wording of the KB, is trying to obfuscate what "Universal" means, and has some intention of making computing life more difficult for folks who might choose to practice "As soon as I saw the magic words "Universal" and "Windows 10" mentioned on the KB page, as per my personal policy I hid the update".

 

Microsoft only benefits from making your older (e.g., Vista, 7, or 8) system work worse.  At some point you're going to get tired of the problems and either a) accept the Win 10 "upgrade", or b) buy a new computer, which will have Win 10 on it.

 

I see plans within plans...

 

Mixing and matching updates is an activity not without peril!  And I don't have any easy answers.

 

-Noel

Edited by NoelC

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Microsoft only benefits from making your older (e.g., Vista, 7, or 8) system work worse.  At some point you're going to get tired of the problems and either a) accept the Win 10 "upgrade", or b) buy a new computer, which will have Win 10 on it.

 

I see plans within plans...

 

Or,

 

c)  come to your senses, abandon Microsoft and head for Linux.

 

There is a steady stream of people on Linux forums reporting that this is exactly what they doing.

Edited by Radish

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Nice sentiment, but...

 

People sometimes have investments in / reasons to use Windows that can't easily be ported to Linux.

 

And make no mistake - Unix and its derivatives are no panacea of goodness in themselves.  There's a reason those of us using Windows aren't using Unix in the first place.

 

-Noel

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Or,

 

c)  come to your senses, abandon Microsoft and head for Linux.

 

 

Or use both. I like the extra control (and capabilities) that running Windows in a virtual machine gives me. For example, I can easily (and conveniently) deny Windows internet access and enable it only when I need it.

 

There are also other options. Like this one:

 

ReactOS 0.4 brings open source Windows closer to reality

 

 

Thanks to the direction that Microsoft has been moving in, I believe that project is likely to see an increase in donations in the coming years.

 

Phil

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With all due respect, I'd like to remind you all, folks, that this thread is about "How to avoid being "upgraded to Win 10" against your will", not how to migrate to VMS, unix, OS/2, CP/M or whatever OS one may fancy. So, please, let's keep on topic. Thanks for your understanding.

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What it may mean to you is:

 

If you expect to run a brand new version of a commercial or free software application on your older OS, there's a chance that the application won't work (or won't work quite right) without this update! 

 

I think I sense that Microsoft, with the naming and wording of the KB, is trying to obfuscate what "Universal" means, and has some intention of making computing life more difficult for folks who might choose to practice "As soon as I saw the magic words "Universal" and "Windows 10" mentioned on the KB page, as per my personal policy I hid the update".

 

Microsoft only benefits from making your older (e.g., Vista, 7, or 8) system work worse.  At some point you're going to get tired of the problems and either a) accept the Win 10 "upgrade", or b) buy a new computer, which will have Win 10 on it.

 

I see plans within plans...

 

Mixing and matching updates is an activity not without peril!  And I don't have any easy answers.

 

-Noel

 

 

Nice discussion (and I did understand *almost* all of it -- uh-oh!).

 

IIRC, you have disabled all or virtually all Windows Updates from your Win7 systems. So you would be running this same risk of new versions of software no longer running, is that right?

 

--JorgeA

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Yes, and this discussion has made me consider whether I want to install some of the updates.

 

I could, of course, just install that one.

 

Or I could remember that there is a potential issue, and deal with it if I have a problem.

 

Trouble is, I have a serious worry that Microsoft is motivated to not do good things to existing systems any more with their updates.  All they would have to do is just not be as careful to ensure new bugs aren't introduced, they wouldn't even have to be actively malicious.  Now, what company do we know that has shifted more of the software testing to users?

 

Thing is, I have zero problems right now.  My reliability readings are all solid 10s, I have systems that have literally been running for months without fault.

 

"If it works, don't fix it."

 

-Noel

 

 

P.S., Woody Leonhard, someone I respect, at the moment is holding at MS-DEFCON 2 - "Patch reliability is unclear. Unless you have an immediate, pressing need to install a specific patch, don't do it.".  I generally consider myself even more conservative and less trusting than Woody, so...

Edited by NoelC

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I noticed on a Win 7 VM that the updates I had previously hidden were shown in italics.  Is everyone seeing that?

 

-Noel

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I noticed on a Win 7 VM that the updates I had previously hidden were shown in italics.  Is everyone seeing that?

 

I believe that Woody may have the answer:

 

 

 

Phil

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Thanks.  That's exactly it.  I unchecked that "same way" box not long ago.

 

-Noel

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The 1st post has been updated again!

"Windows Update Client for Windows x and Windows Server 20xx R2: March 2016" update pair added to the list. ;)

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Malware alert:

 

Get Windows 10 patch KB 3035583 suddenly reappears on Win7/8.1 PCs

 

"The 10th version of the Microsoft's much-maligned malware rolled out Tuesday afternoon with no warning or mention"

 

KB2952664 showed up yet again for me this week.

 

This is why there are "Do Not Call" lists and why a lot of neighborhoods have "no soliciting" signs posted at the entrance: they don't want pushy salesmen phoning or knocking at people's doors over and over and over again.

 

In Windows, the analogous way to put up a "no soliciting" sign is to turn off Windows Update altogether. :(

 

--JorgeA

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"Windows Update Client for Windows x and Windows Server 20xx R2: March 2016" update pair added to the list. ;)

 

Not that I'm fond of Windows Updates at all - nor have I installed this one - but it does bring back up the discussion:

 

Will Microsoft continue to support updating via software that doesn't have a recently updated Windows Update client?  Or by hiding this update are you assuring an ultimate divorce from Microsoft's update process entirely?

 

People have been reporting really slow update performance and (Woody Leonhard I think it was) said that this update might fix that.  Maybe it's just a matter of putting up with a slower update if one doesn't take this one.

 

Just to be clear, I've pretty much decided on such a divorce voluntarily, and so far things are going fine.  But I know not everyone will want to be disconnected from security updates.

 

This is a case where we simply don't have enough information to make a well-informed decision.

 

-Noel

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