NoelC

Yes, and the tools are simply not yet fully up to date with the new Windows release. I'm sure that will be corrected soon. A re-skinned Win 10 could then be a viable workhorse OS with suitable tweaking. Near as I can tell, virtually all of Win32 is still in place. Kind of a shame they did their ham-handed porting of some of the control panel applets to XAML, but at least the important parts work with UAC disabled. Someone needs to figure out how to thwart the UAC check in ApplicationFrameHost. -Noel

When you say "cold boot"... Have you disabled Hybrid/Fast Startup? If not, I don't know if you realize but shutdown / bootup in Windows 8 and newer are by default not real shutdowns / bootups, but rather a hybrid "log off and hibernate" kind of thing. What most folks don't realize - especially if running any kind of dual boot arrangement - that the Hybrid/Fast Boot logic can cause a lot of problems. For one thing some parts of the system are not freshly restarted, and for another it's likely the file system will actually be left in a dirty state. I normally advise people to disable Hybrid / Fast Bootup (it can be done in the Power Options panel), though in your case that would probably make it so that your system would boot up slowly in all cases - which of course you're right to try to diagnose. A member here, MagicAndre1981, started a thread giving some advise on how to diagnose slow bootup problems here: http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/158252-trace-why-windows-8-boots-shutsdown-or-hibernates-slowly/ You might post there asking him whether he's willing to extend his expertise to Win 10. He may not see your thread here. -Noel

Did you notice that the 10 reappeared after Windows in the WinVer dialog? -Noel

Re: negative App feedback... Hm, could it be that people just expect software to work, no matter what stupid process the manufacturer thinks will help them achieve their business goals without having to hire as many educated engineers or testers? Moral: Never release software that is unfinished in any way except for missing features. Most people in the world are not interested in finding failures or crashes - they're interested in shaping the future feature set! -Noel

A single pixel is essentially visually nonexistent. The one and only look and feel available to Win 10 users is essentially borderless. But the borders do not concern me much. I already have them under control. It's what's painted on the common controls that most interests me. Flat buttons, scroll bar thumbs, etc. with no visual style whatsoever just aren't as usable as those that let you know that they're there. Visually speaking, the difference between these is at issue: -Noel

I believe 10240 is it. But there may be a host of coincident Windows Updates to fix bugs by the end of the month. Don't be terribly disappointed if it never matures. If you know anything at all about software development you will realize that continuously changing and updating components of a complex software system is the absolute antithesis of what needs to be done in order for a system to become stable and secure. -Noel

IMO UxStyle is not the way to go. Big Muscle (of Aero Glass for Win 8+ fame) has some DLLs (UxThemeSignatureBypass) that facilitate installation of themes. The reason Big Muscle's software is better is that it patches the system at run-time, vs. altering the system files on disk. The trouble at the moment is finding themes specifically crafted to work with Win 10, as Microsoft has changed the way the theming subsystem operates somewhat. I am not intimately familiar with all the tools used to re-theme a system, but I imagine some software changes are needed in order to get things just right for the new OS. After that happens, I imagine DeviantArt will be rich with theme choices in short order. For my current Win 8.1 system I re-theme it with a very good one called "Aero7 v2" which to me has the most important feature: It returns visuals styles to the common controls - i.e., so you can tell a button or scroll bar thumb apart from the client area. With this theme installed, I replace the theme atlas resources used to build the chrome around the windows to update the look and feel so that I don't have a wholly "Win 7 Aero" look, but something fresher and cleaner. To me this is the best of all worlds. You've probably seen the screen grab I made showing all the attributes of it. http://Noel.ProDigitalSoftware.com/ForumPosts/Win81/ThemedDesktop.png I'm confident that there will be folks who will develop similar packages for Win 10 in the near future. If none appear fairly soon I'll take it on myself to put something together. Win 10 just needs it too badly. In the interim, with Big Muscle's current test software, it's already possible (with some small glitches) to replace the graphics resources that define the chrome around windows - this just doesn't re-skin the common controls. Even with just that in place Windows 10 becomes 98% friendlier to use. The things missing to be able to accomplish all of what I showed in the Win 8.1 overview image in Win 10 are: * A stable version of Aero Glass specifically crafted for the released Win 10 (the current test version causes a few glitches). * A fully integrated theme that operates in Win 10 properly (the Aero7 theme causes a few glitches). * A final version of Classic Shell built for and tested against the released Win 10 system. -Noel

First let me say there's really no expectation that software written to work with 10130 should function with 10240. I understand that. I'm only posting on the possible chance this might be helpful. Because I run only desktop applications, I'm not seeing the crash issue much. That being said, I did see a series of crashes leading to a series of minidumps being stored in the AeroGlass folder after switching screen sizes (basically when exiting full-screen mode in VMware and going back to 1920 x 1200 in a VMware window). I mention this in case Big Muscle would want to know an alternate method to reproduce the crash. Here's one of the minidumps (270 MB) and the debug.log if that can help at all: http://Noel.ProDigitalSoftware.com/ForumPosts/Win10/10240/minidump-07-17-06-47-39.dmp http://Noel.ProDigitalSoftware.com/ForumPosts/Win10/10240/debug.log -Noel

While it may seem to go without saying that a person presently running that Most Awesome operating system Vista might not want to move up to Win 10, it's not a given. -Noel

And now we know: As it turns out you can run Win 10 in legacy/BIOS mode too. -Noel

Why would you expect any better? Same thing happens when playing Pandora on Project Spartan / Edge. This is the new Microsoft. It doesn't have to work. They just have to say it does. -Noel

One could see that coming. That's why I have two systems on which I have run Win 10 previews just enough... -Noel

Now Win 10 build 10240 is out, and we can see and say what it has become. Out of the box it's not really much different than what I described in the first post of this thread. Fluff, frivolity, and maybe a hint of "to work" apparently being added back in at the last moment. Essentially more of what Win 8 was - which can't possibly succeed on its own merit but may well be adopted by hundreds of millions anyway because of Microsoft's aggressive tactics. There are already 3rd party tools - Classic Shell, Aero Glass for Win 8+, and some old ones that still work - that seek to restore usability to the Win 10. And they actually do. I have embarked on developing a Win 10 configuration with with UAC off and a local account. Surprisingly, it hangs together decently in this fashion - of course without being able to run any Modern Apps. I personally don't miss anything there now, but who knows what will be developed in the future. Right now, today, I believe I've changed my "favorite" system to the one I'm running right now - Win 8.1 with the huge number of tweaks and augments I've done. One of the things that pushed me over the edge to changing my choice (from Win 7 when I wrote the OP in this thread) is the fact that I found a theme online called Aero 7 v2 that now makes the desktop controls look more like they looked in Win 7. Basically it's the best of all worlds - an up-to-date kernel driving a UI that's been made equally usable. So... When Win 10 settles down a bit, and is proven stable, there will no doubt be 3rd party software to correct many of the stupid changes Microsoft has made (such as borderless windows) and make the Win 10 desktop as usable as its predecessors. Given that there have been so many folks developing alternate themes for Win 8.1 and earlier, I don't expect that will stop any time soon, so what we can hope / strive for is: A 3rd party theme plus Aero Glass for Win 10 that returns usability to the desktop.A polished set of tweaks to make Win 10 into the serious workhorse the kernel can support.To develop the ability to run Modern Apps without UAC being enabled (hey, we can dream). The desired result? What Microsoft should be delivering for serious/business users: A usable workhorse operating system with up-to-date high tech underpinnings and the fluff sidelined. -Noel

OK, so now that the RTM is in... Time to switch to more conservative settings? I've been testing with UAC disabled for a while now, and the 10240 update went in without a hitch on a system already running that way. Of course there's no option to run Modern Apps. Aw darn. Today I switched my login from using a Microsoft account to using a local account. There's an option for doing that right in the Accounts section of the Modern control panel. First thing it did upon log off/on is pop up a notification that my "Get Insider Builds" settings needed attention. Apparently one can't get insider builds without logging in with a Microsoft account. What a shame. And in the Advanced Options there is the [ ] Defer upgrades setting that will cause upgrades to be deferred until the unwashed masses of unsuspecting dupes have tested them for 3 months. The system still says it's activated. So, interestingly, with the RTM (build 10240) it actually looks like it may actually be possible that this strategy worked: Get a free license (without needing to use up an existing Win 8- license) by being an insider.Accept Insider Builds until the RTM was delivered.Switch to a local account and more conservative settings.More as I discover it. -Noel

I didn't have any luck experimenting with that value before. I'll try it again... I'm assuming you're meaning this one? [HKCU\Control Panel\Desktop\WindowMetrics] CaptionWidth REG_SZ "-255" Whenever I set it to a small positive value it shortens the buttons on the Taskbar, but does nothing useful to the buttons in the title bars. -Noel

From what I can see, Microsoft is painting the caption buttons across the entire vertical space of the title bar now. It's possible to reduce the title bar height by importing WindowMetrics information from an older system into the Win 10 registry, and it's possible to make a Theme Atlas that reduces the footprint of the caption buttons, so one can get close to what you want. I used to like flat-ish looking caption buttons, but I've started to like the deep gel button look now. Mostly my buttons stay very subtle until one hovers over them. http://Noel.ProDigitalSoftware.com/ForumPosts/Win10/10240/RoundedCornersBlueActive.png -Noel

Seems like they've changed nothing in the Theme Atlas layout in build 10240. Aero Glass for Win 10 can clearly be made to work, and it will be a Really Great add-on for the OS. -Noel

It's from the link that ptd163 provided at the top of the thread. -Noel

So what they're saying is that having a piece of crap OS that's inherently as vulnerable as swiss cheese means you darn well better stay on the update path - or else! Anyone besides me see the sheer ridiculousness of that? -Noel

My understanding is that (for non-insiders) they're going to download it well in advance of "the day", and it will sit dormant. Will people notice the extra 3GB of .ESD file that will be sitting around somewhere? Almost certainly. Some may even learn how to make an ISO from it and get it installed. It's already available to insiders. -Noel

You all have said what I've been thinking as well. Right now people in general (outside the informed insider camp) can't believe they'd really be so devious as to force themselves into your computer after answering one prompt. Everyone assumes the best - and that the "build a better mousetrap" model is still in force. What I want to know is this: How do they keep their invasion off the tabloid news (i.e., so that the backlash doesn't happen until after the deed is done and people have already fallen through the trap door)? Is there a gargantuan payoff happening? Is everyone still so sickeningly optimistic? -Noel

I put together a small business server system in my home office running on Win 7 x64 Ultimate (I had a license on hand not being used for anything else). It's a nice little Dell PowerEdge T20 box, which is surprisingly capable given its low price. I set the thing up with reliability in mind, using a RAID 5 array of SSDs, internal and external HDDs for backup, and a good austere software configuration doing regular snapshots and system image backups. Powering the thing is a UPS that will keep it running for a while even in the absence of mains power. The power backup extends to the network hardware it's connected to as well. You'd think it would be a good and solid setup, and indeed it did run for weeks without trouble. I thought I had thought of and planned for everything. Then it went offline. Turns out the UPS has a power button on top that's slightly recessed but not too hard to depress. The family cat found the spot under the desk where there was a warm surface to sit on. You can guess what happened. No harm done, no corruption due to the unexpected power-down, and the UPS now has a nice new cover. No cat was harmed in the making of this post. -Noel

Have you seen any recent evidence that anyone left at Microsoft understands these things even as well as you do? Win 8 introduced the hint of a few possible big things under the covers, being developed by smart people, and as far as I can see Win 10 hasn't furthered them. Instead it's all been about re-packaging and duping the public. I think it's possible smart people can no longer abide the environment in Redmond, where crap is king. -Noel

Microsoft has little interest in making their new operating system run on old hardware. But they're forced into supporting some of that - or they'd have to actually develop something truly good and wait to kick start their next big thing until people swapped out for newer hardware. Laptop makers have even less interest in maintaining their hardware after the sale. I would never expect a laptop to be able to run a newer OS. They can't even take new drivers for the most part. I have customers who have faulty OpenGL implementations on laptops because they simply can't get new display drivers to update their circa 2011 software. Between Microsoft not wanting to put in the effort to develop good products because they feel they can survive as an "our way or the highway" monopoly, and the culture they've built around them, it's a brutal reality. -Noel

To be fair, it really depends on what theme the atlas was generated for. I have, for example, developed a theme atlas that I use with the Aero 7 v2 theme (on my Win 8.1 system). Basically, you start by extracting the appropriate PNG file contained in the STREAM resource list from the theme.msstyles file, and change the appropriate elements. In the cases of the theme atlases I've posted recently here, they're based on the stock aero.msstyles file that comes with Win 10. -Noel P.S., by the way have you noticed that Microsoft is now painting slider handles with the "accent color"? This may not seem like a big deal, but it represents elements of the Modern interface interacting with the desktop standard controls. I have a real worry about what will be revealed when we see the final release. Through such changes to the common controls more stuff may be dis-integrated on the desktop at the last minute than we expect.