thanks mazin. apps install all ok with no issues, use runonceex & guirunonce it's just hotfixes that are a pain, i can't see any reason why some work and others don't. i've checked them in sense of installing clean xpsp2 listing all auto updates and manually downloading again adding to svcpack.inf & folder and still same issue, some do some don't install, but some don't, as auto updates wants to re-downlaond and yet they do show in add/remove programs so i'm at a total loss