List of new software unlocked by Second System

[Karla Sleutel]

11 hours ago, NotHereToPlayGames said:

And even provides non-MSFN links on where to download these non-member non-free products.

Intentionally or not, you're missing the point. Members that made contributions to MSFN can post such links.

Win32 sneakily deleted everything he had, therefore him and his horde of commercial bots have no contributions to MSFN.

I was given a very harsh treatment (can't say what exactly, since it's forbidden to discuss moderation), and all of that was just for posting a text that reminded a commercial, "enterprise" wording!

I gave NO links at all!!!! And the product I described was 15 or 20 y.o.! Out of production! So? Any comments?

 

[NotHereToPlayGames]

39 minutes ago, Karla Sleutel said:

Any comments?

I'm failing to see why "win32" has ANYTHING to do with the recent discussion.  I could care less "who" he is and whether or not his content has been deleted or not!

Why?  Because "win32" is *NOT* the person who started this tread!  An active member since 2021 started this thread and that member, as you rightly point out, CAN post links to programs that he follows.

NO DIFFERENT than those security products.

The difference, as I am seeing it, is the "personality conflict" between the members doing the "liking" and the "arguing".

What we have here is nothing more than "I like that member, he CAN post links.  I do not like that member, he can NOT post links."

Sorry, but that IS the bottom line from a "third party perspective".

We have LEMMINGS on MSFN and we ALL know who they are, we know who they "like" and who they do not "like".  It really is that simple.

[Sergiaws]

Here's what can I tell. Win32 used to make great software. Vista Extended Kernel was great, Supermium is great. He was an msfn member, but because of fame (lots of people asking if something works in his/her setup), he might be tired of msfn. Second System might be great, but I don't have money right now to test it. Since he used to be msfn member, I think his software can be shared. What I don't like is that he actually does not update frecquently his website or blog, BlackWingCat used to speak some things about his adventures extending Win2K. My suggestion for him would be to drop WinVista ExKernel users (so second system would work on Vanilla only), make a free version with less frecquent updates, and create paid beta channel updated more frecquently.

[TSNH]

On 11/6/2025 at 6:24 PM, Nokiamies said:

I know this might be bit off topic but can you topic if any about vista haswell patch and what limits it got? Does it fix random launch errors and programs crashing? Is it meant to be used with other extensions or how? I cant find lot of information on it and really would like to know if it is worth it.

"Does it fix random launch errors and programs crashing?"

Pretty much, the System is now very much working rather than not, the improvement is very meaningful but it's not perfect:

I've described my experiences here https://msfn.org/board/topic/186936-force-tsc-system-timer-on-vista/#findComment-1281946

"Is it meant to be used with other extensions or how?"

It's standalone, it's just a very small patch to advapi32.dll

"would like to know if it is worth it."

If you are only interested in the patch and not Second System or RTX drivers - No

and don't buy Haswell+ hardware with Vista in mind

 

While the patch may indeed be fixing the source of crashes that was in advapi.dll, Vista still uses HPET which performs badly and is hardware-wise really bad on new Intel platforms:

higher latency -> lower FPS, lower system responsiveness

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Precision_Event_Timer

Quote

In 2019 it was decided to blacklist HPET in newer Linux kernels when running on some Intel CPUs (Coffee Lake) because of its instability.

All of my testing is in this thread:

I requested this TSC feature on @win32's patreon site but for now there's still no patch for it

 

On 11/6/2025 at 6:24 PM, Nokiamies said:

grab myself prepaid credit card

Another not so great news - the payment process on Patreon is really painful https://old.reddit.com/r/patreon/comments/1cl8vhv/is_there_any_way_to_use_a_prepaid_card_or_even_my/ (have not tried services mentioned in this thread)

Of course only if you don't want to have an active payment source attached to patreon, if so

your best bet would be to find a banking-like service that operates in your country and allows creating online easily trashable (but theoretically not temporary or prepaid) credit cards and pay with that

 

or you can link that card to paypal.

Transfer some money into paypal through one time payment methods perhaps

Than start the patreon subscription with paypal as a payment method, it verifies you have an active credit card

Than trash the credit card

In the following months patreon won't verify if your card is active anymore

And than you need to keep track of your fundings on paypal and either transfer money there regurarly (through one time payment methods) or cancel sub before paypal money run out

Edited 18 hours ago by TSNH

[TSNH]

So from what I've gathered posting links to paid software is allowed, though it can't be done in an advertising-like manner (and also not the first thing you post)

As i mentioned the fact that the link was in the second line of text and that line had a bigger font, may have been interpreted as advertising, maybe I got a bit too excited initially due to this being the only current kernel extension that is for Windows Vista in particular.

That being said I've been getting absolutely zero financial gains currently or in the past from any of @win32's products. Bot accusations here are immediately obviously ridiculous, I doubt that I should even take them seriously at all

Therefore I may re add the link to the patreon, but put it under external links or something

The link to patreon is btw not like a "buy" button and instead it just links to (afaik) the only other page which has any resources about the Second System. i.e. it's like a software product's website rather than donate or shop link. The is also a free 'sub' plan for reading news and no downloads. Surprisingly it is popular looking at the counter.

This thread while being the main one on Second System, is still mainly a list of programs that it allows to launch

[Nokiamies]

13 hours ago, TSNH said:

"Does it fix random launch errors and programs crashing?"

Pretty much, the System is now very much working rather than not, the improvement is very meaningful but it's not perfect:

I've described my experiences here https://msfn.org/board/topic/186936-force-tsc-system-timer-on-vista/#findComment-1281946

"Is it meant to be used with other extensions or how?"

It's standalone, it's just a very small patch to advapi32.dll

"would like to know if it is worth it."

If you are only interested in the patch and not Second System or RTX drivers - No

and don't buy Haswell+ hardware with Vista in mind

 

While the patch may indeed be fixing the source of crashes that was in advapi.dll, Vista still uses HPET which performs badly and is hardware-wise really bad on new Intel platforms:

higher latency -> lower FPS, lower system responsiveness

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Precision_Event_Timer

All of my testing is in this thread:

I requested this TSC feature on @win32's patreon site but for now there's still no patch for it

That is too bad. I got one nice Haswell system around, I guess I keep it on pre Haswell or AMD platform. Second system is also in my list of products interested as it seems to be much more compatible than any other kernel at the time plus having vista support is nice.

One question that I got from second system is that is it globally forced on after install or can I make off by default and only enabled if needed? That came to my mind since you mentioned some programs needing it to be disabled from them. Having it on for all would cause too much headache with system having lot of programs.

13 hours ago, TSNH said:

Another not so great news - the payment process on Patreon is really painful https://old.reddit.com/r/patreon/comments/1cl8vhv/is_there_any_way_to_use_a_prepaid_card_or_even_my/ (have not tried services mentioned in this thread)

Of course only if you don't want to have an active payment source attached to patreon, if so

your best bet would be to find a banking-like service that operates in your country and allows creating online easily trashable (but theoretically not temporary or prepaid) credit cards and pay with that

 

or you can link that card to paypal.

Transfer some money into paypal through one time payment methods perhaps

Than start the patreon subscription with paypal as a payment method, it verifies you have an active credit card

Than trash the credit card

In the following months patreon won't verify if your card is active anymore

And than you need to keep track of your fundings on paypal and either transfer money there regurarly (through one time payment methods) or cancel sub before paypal money run out

I do have debit card but it got pretty much zero funds and it I blocked it usage on online shops. I use it to fill up car on self service stations mostly. I don't know about Poland but here electric money transfers are performed on billing or wire transfers. What I usually get is weird look when I ask can those be used for paying. I prefer not have anything funded automatically as it makes disputing chargers way harder.

[TSNH]

32 minutes ago, Nokiamies said:

One question that I got from second system is that is it globally forced on after install or can I make off by default and only enabled if needed? That came to my mind since you mentioned some programs needing it to be disabled from them. Having it on for all would cause too much headache with system having lot of programs.

By default globally forced, can be made per-program only

https://msfn.org/board/topic/186928-list-of-new-software-unlocked-by-second-system/#findComment-1281897

[NotHereToPlayGames]

4 hours ago, TSNH said:

So from what I've gathered posting links to paid software is allowed, though it can't be done in an advertising-like manner (and also not the first thing you post)

That is my understanding.  Admins [plural] have been cited in this thread, so if any violations were made, the thread would have been locked.

Anything beyond that is really all just "personality clashes" and one set of rules attempted to be forced upon a subset of "liked contributions" and a different set of rules attempted to be forced upon a subset of "disliked contributions".

Strictly speaking as a third-party.  I'm not a fan of these types of programs, but as far as I can tell, you didn't do anything at all different than other members here have done in the past.

You are a fan of something not hosted here, and you came here to discuss with your MSFN Family.

Personally, in my opinion, things like "extended kernels" have always been a very fine line.  To the best of my knowledged, MSFN has never allowed direct links to their downloads as they violate MICROSOFT licensing terms.

Admins have the last word, of course.

[TSNH]

26 minutes ago, NotHereToPlayGames said:

Personally, in my opinion, things like "extended kernels" have always been a very fine line.  To the best of my knowledged, MSFN has never allowed direct links to their downloads as they violate MICROSOFT licensing terms.

Second System could be considered an exception for this as it doesn't contain modified Microsoft binaries (from what I can tell, no reverse engineering was done) and instead injects custom win32's own files, so it's more like VxKex. And links to VxKex on github weren't being taken down here