Mathwiz Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 9 hours ago, NotHereToPlayGames said: GitHub / GitLab is not owned by Google 9 hours ago, NotHereToPlayGames said: BitChute is not owned by Google 9 hours ago, NotHereToPlayGames said: MSN is not owned by Google All true; but you're missing a rather obvious point, I'm afraid. Not sure who owns GitLab, but GitHub, BitChute, and MSN are all owned by Micro$oft. And what browser does Micro$oft provide with their current OS offerings? The Chromium-based version of Edge! So they have a clear vested interest in insuring that their sites only work with Chromium-based browsers like their own Edge. (Oh, and don't forget; starting next year, the latest "official" Chrome won't even run on Windows 7 - even though Win 7 has another year of Extended Support Updates coming in 2022. And even China is giving up on WinXP and Flash. Browsers may be free, but Win 10+ definitely isn't; nor is the new PC you'll need to run it.) It's also likely that anyone using website development software provided by Google or M$ will suffer the same incompatibilities, even if they have no personal or corporate interest in favoring Chromium. I'm speculating here, but I strongly suspect that is behind GitLab's compatibility issues with older browsers. Saying that a company has to be owned by Google to be affected by Google is rather myopic, IMO. Luckily, we have developers like JustOff, who have generously written add-on patches to restore compatibility between GitHub/GitLab and recent versions of UXP browsers. But even a talented developer like JustOff can only deal with so much of what Google is shoveling out these days. Every few weeks, it seems, I have to install a new version of his Web Components Polyfill add-on, or GitLab quits working on IceApe. A lot of work just to keep two websites working on UXP! (Hey, wasn't it you who complained about having to update browsers ridiculously often?) And does any of it actually improve the Web? If it does, I haven't seen it. AFAICS, it has one primary purpose: to render older browsers and their forks obsolete, thus forcing all of us to use either Chromium or a "chromoclone" (i.e., not based on Chromium, but forced to emulate it) like modern Firefox. So, perhaps M$ and Google should both be in the dock for collusion in restraint of trade. Such cases are tough to prove, but there appears to be ample circumstantial evidence to support an investigation, at least. 10 hours ago, NotHereToPlayGames said: In the 90's, I worked for a company where Firefox was forced down the throat of all employees. Do you mean the original post-Netscape Mozilla browser - the one that looked like SeaMonkey? I didn't know Firefox even existed for most of the 90's. (Although IIRC, the original Firefox was essentially the Mozilla browser sans the mail/news reader. It's been a few years.) But I'm with you on stupid corporate mandates. Why even bother with PCs if you're going to force everyone to use the exact same software? A browser should be a browser - you should be able to use whichever one helps you do your job - even IE, if it works for you! But ironically, Google and M$ are doing the same thing your former boss did; it's just a bit less obvious than "you're fired if we find an 'unapproved' browser on your PC!" 10 hours ago, NotHereToPlayGames said: The pendulum swings both ways. "Two wrongs don't make a right." But all that said, as long as I'm forced to use Chromium, I'm glad I can use 360EE, and especially your versions of it. Thanks for all you do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotHereToPlayGames Posted November 20, 2021 Author Share Posted November 20, 2021 Agreed. And NONE OF IT "improves" the web! Would have been very late 90's, perhaps very early 00's. I just remember a college punk working for us that installed it on his computer and "everybody" (EXCEPT ME!) flocked to it in droves because it had "tabs" (I had tabs via Sleipnir or GreenBrowser, don't recall offhand). We hired him for the SUMMER and the entire building (only about 20 of us) was HIT WITH A VIRUS (EXCEPT ME!) that was distributed across the network FROM HIS COMPUTER, originating from HIS web browser! He was a college intern that was supposed to work for us every summer of his college years but needless to say we did not bring him back after that first summer. When did Firefox introduce "tabs"? That would pinpoint a year more closer than me trying to "reminisce". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathwiz Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 12 minutes ago, NotHereToPlayGames said: When did Firefox introduce "tabs"? Wikipedia to the rescue (is there anything you can't find on Wikipedia?): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_of_Firefox#Tabbed_browsing Quote Firefox was created in 2002 under the code name "Phoenix" by the Mozilla community members who desired a standalone browser, rather than the Mozilla Application Suite bundle. Quote This feature was carried over from the Mozilla Application Suite, which in turn had borrowed the feature from the popular MultiZilla extension for Mozilla. It was the Mozilla Application Suite that had the SeaMonkey look, and (according to the above) also introduced tabs, so that may have been the browser that was forced down everyone's throat (except yours ). Tabs did catch on, at least; they were an improvement over M$'s "windows within windows" MDI (does anyone remember Win 3 and the Program Mangler?) and now every browser has them. (I'm even starting to see them in apps other than browsers. Ironically, M$ Office could really use them, but as of Office 2016 at least, it still lacked them! I guess M$ thought taskbar buttons were good enough. Maybe M$ finally added tabs in Office 2019?) But that one UI feature, nice as it may be, is a pretty poor excuse to ram one browser down everyone's throat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msfntor Posted November 20, 2021 Share Posted November 20, 2021 Web browser "GPU memory usage" tester July 31, 2016 Each 'Run' in this test should finish in around one second. All 80 runs should complete in under 80 seconds. ALL major web browsers easily pass the test, except for 32-bit Chrome (51.0.2704.103; and Opera, which uses the Chrome engine) which slows to an excruciating crawl (but only with GPU accelerated canvas), and then eventually crashes and burns with an "Aw, Snap!" message. Chrome bug report (confirmed to be an 'out of memory' problem due to a garbage collection problem). UPDATE Aug 2017: Firefox now suffers from an unknown performance regression. Run GPU Memory Test (to see problem, run 32-bit Chrome): https://www.vsynctester.com/gputest.html - then my results (two tests each, in Incognito window): 360Chrome 12 r 8: 153 seconds, 146 s. 12 M: 151 s.,147 s. 13 r 6: 182 s., 175 s. 13 M: 158 s., 156 s. 13.5 r: 161 s., 159 s. DcBrowser M: Aw, Snap!, Aw, Snap! Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotHereToPlayGames Posted November 20, 2021 Author Share Posted November 20, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mathwiz said: But that one UI feature, nice as it may be, is a pretty poor excuse to ram one browser down everyone's throat! The ram-rodding wasn't the early 00's, the ram-rodding was four/five years ago. The factory uses a production tracking system with nested div tables and "IT" couldn't figure out how to get column widths to line up properly. So there "solution" was Firefox-Only on all computers throughout the plant. It was that way for only two years or so until a marketing department intern found a MISSING </div> tag in one of IT's "tables". We now have Chrome, Firefox, and Edge all over the place, every operator is allowed to use what they are most comfortable with - it took an "efficiency expert" to convince IT that he shouldn't force people to use a web browser they are not "familiar" with. Firefox is installed, but I honeslty cannot recall for the life of me the last time any production operator selected it over Chrome or Edge. Pretty much everybody uses Chrome. HR uses Edge. IT uses Firefox. But everyone on the production floor uses Chrome. When folks from the Lab run time studies, we might see Firefox in use on the production floor. I'm no Fan Boy, don't get me wrong, I wish we had a more level playing field. But this is the world we live in "at the moment". H#LL, each and every time anybody has to call the "Help Desk" (located in three different countries), the very FIRST sentence they 'recite' is "Please make sure you are in Chrome." Edited November 20, 2021 by NotHereToPlayGames 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotHereToPlayGames Posted November 20, 2021 Author Share Posted November 20, 2021 48 minutes ago, msfntor said: DcBrowser M: Aw, Snap!, Aw, Snap! Did you try disabling "hardware acceleration"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msfntor Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 (edited) 9 hours ago, NotHereToPlayGames said: Did you try disabling "hardware acceleration"? Yes, disabled in DcBrowser...in all my browsers. Examples: Run 58 - 92 s., 51 - 76 s., Aw, Snap! Not fonts or zoom or dark mode or extensions (disabled all) problem. EDIT: debug.log: [1108/160656.234:ERROR:file_io.cc(89)] ReadExactly: expected 36, observed 0 [1108/231846.531:WARNING:pe_image_reader.cc(181)] CodeView debug entry of unexpected size in C:\WINDOWS\system32\OLEACC.dll [1108/231846.578:WARNING:pe_image_reader.cc(198)] encountered non-7.0 CodeView debug record in C:\WINDOWS\system32\msacm32.drv [1111/201946.921:WARNING:pe_image_reader.cc(181)] CodeView debug entry of unexpected size in C:\WINDOWS\system32\OLEACC.dll [1111/201946.953:WARNING:pe_image_reader.cc(198)] encountered non-7.0 CodeView debug record in C:\WINDOWS\system32\msacm32.drv [1117/153329.944:WARNING:pe_image_reader.cc(181)] CodeView debug entry of unexpected size in C:\WINDOWS\system32\OLEACC.dll Edited November 21, 2021 by msfntor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotHereToPlayGames Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 (edited) Would take some time and I still need to complete my dark theme, but here is what I am thinking for my next major release - a "Build Your Own All-in-One". Right now, I offer ten different downloads. A "Build...One" would be one download and that one download would contain several compressed "data files". Then end user would only need to execute the "Build Process" once (or whenever they wish to switch "modes"). By executing the "Build Process", the "data files" that pertain to what you wish to build is extracted and you are up-and-running. Future launches are just launched as they always have been, direct from the "360Loader" executable. If you want to change "modes", you just run the "Build Process" again. Edited November 21, 2021 by NotHereToPlayGames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotHereToPlayGames Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 A "Build...One" release would have all four (six if you include XP SP2) share one profile. The only problems that could arise is if you have an extension that doesn't work in all four (six) releases [I've personally not encountered any extension that doesn't work in all four]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msfntor Posted November 21, 2021 Share Posted November 21, 2021 (edited) https://msfn.org/board/uploads/monthly_2021_11/image.png.fef86ea824d40ae5e960e7a7524da728.png 404 NOT found error: "The file you were looking for could not be found" - "intensity" of this address fluctuates rhythmically every second, here Always your images are empty, spacer.png etc Single-Pixel ...why? Did you premeditate it this way or not? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacer_GIF Hmm could I disable hardware acceleration system-wise? Totally or partially?.. Edited November 21, 2021 by msfntor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotHereToPlayGames Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 (edited) <delete> Edited November 21, 2021 by NotHereToPlayGames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotHereToPlayGames Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 (edited) <delete> Edited November 21, 2021 by NotHereToPlayGames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotHereToPlayGames Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 (edited) The "Build Process" would basically be a small GUI with a series of checkboxes (not in these colors per se) -- Edited November 21, 2021 by NotHereToPlayGames 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotHereToPlayGames Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 56 minutes ago, msfntor said: Always your images are empty, spacer.png etc Single-Pixel ...why? Did you premeditate it this way or not? Not premeditated, lol. See post above, I had to modify the way that I pasted the image into the forum's reply box. Some of my past posts are intentional in the sense that I'll "waste time" to upload an image to an image hosting site (I use Dropbox because I already use it for other stuff), grab a share-link, then embed that share-link on my posts here. All of that really is a "waste of time" (and "space"). When those images are simply for the sake of "discussion", I do not keep them on my Dropbox, I delete them when the conversation is done (don't care that folks not engaged currently will not see those images "after" the conversation is over). I'll delete them from my Dropbox to prevent the "waste of space" - downside is that future readers will just see an empty space. Don't care. Was only there for the sake of discussion and I removed them when the discussion was over. Maybe I should look into Imgur (sp?) to host those "temporary" images, but can't say I'm really all that concerned, to be perfectly honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotHereToPlayGames Posted November 21, 2021 Author Share Posted November 21, 2021 ps - I was going to abandon v13 completely in favor of v13.5 but have since decided to keep both. At least until I can (if possible) find a way to hard code the Developer Tools language preference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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