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So let me ask the obvious. . .


SPX

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Why are you guys still running 9x?

I mean, hey, I grew up on it (as well as a bit of 3.11), and there are times when I feel inspired to build an old 98 system just for the nostalgia factor, but reading through these topics it looks like there are still some guys here who use 9x as their primary OS and who are seriously developing new stuff for it.

So the question is why? What drives you? What's the point? And how many of you really do use a 9x OS on your primary machine?

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In my case it is :

performance

compatibility with certain hardware I use daily (sound stuff)

my own hardware projects

customisability/tweakability

doesn't spy on you

impossible to take down remotely

more or less modern malware proof

I do have installs of newer windowses but they mostly collect dust, I just don't need to run them very often (only for FPGA stuff really).

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Why are you guys still running 9x?

I mean, hey, I grew up on it (as well as a bit of 3.11), and there are times when I feel inspired to build an old 98 system just for the nostalgia factor, but reading through these topics it looks like there are still some guys here who use 9x as their primary OS and who are seriously developing new stuff for it.

So the question is why? What drives you? What's the point? And how many of you really do use a 9x OS on your primary machine?

I grew up on it.

I like it.

Still works.

No hidden spyware.

Greater control thanks to DOS.

Me is similar to XP.

Faster than nt.

Less dependence on M$.

Less vulnerabilities.

Light on resources.

Me is my primary along Vista

Edited by Flasche
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(1) because I'm satisfied with what I have (2) don't feel like spending money on something newer which is more like a rental, than actually owning it. (3) I mostly use it for storing my photography, so any old program like Xnview 1.6 or FastStone 2.30 is 100% sufficient. (4) I still enjoy playing with DOS.... and yes, I do keep some of those old DOS programs just out of nostalgia :-)

(5) and, pretty much what everyone above me already said :-)

Edited by LostInSpace2012
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Here's a load of answers. I'm not running 98se anymore (I'm not up to running this mobo on 98) but it remains my favourite OS

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/162657-why-use-win-9x-on-new-pcs-in-2013/

Thanks, I'll definitely look through that.

In my case it is :

performance

compatibility with certain hardware I use daily (sound stuff)

my own hardware projects

customisability/tweakability

doesn't spy on you

impossible to take down remotely

more or less modern malware proof

I do have installs of newer windowses but they mostly collect dust, I just don't need to run them very often (only for FPGA stuff really).

1. Performance just because it doesn't require much in terms of system resources?

2. What kind of hardware projects require Win 9x?

3. How is it more customizable/tweakable than modern versions of Windows?

4. Doesn't spy on how you?

5. What do you mean it's impossible to take down remotely?

Why are you guys still running 9x?

I mean, hey, I grew up on it (as well as a bit of 3.11), and there are times when I feel inspired to build an old 98 system just for the nostalgia factor, but reading through these topics it looks like there are still some guys here who use 9x as their primary OS and who are seriously developing new stuff for it.

So the question is why? What drives you? What's the point? And how many of you really do use a 9x OS on your primary machine?

I grew up on it.

I like it.

Still works.

No hidden spyware.

Greater control thanks to DOS.

Me is similar to XP.

Faster than nt.

Less dependence on M$.

Less vulnerabilities.

Light on resources.

Me is my primary along Vista

How is ME similar to XP? I certainly never got that vibe from it. It just seemed like 98 with some 2000-inspired icons and a lot of bugginess.

What do you use more, ME or Vista? Why run both?

And here's another question: What's it like to get on the Internet with a 9x system? Are there even any modern browsers that still support it? What about Flash?

(1) because I'm satisfied with what I have (2) don't feel like spending money on something newer which is more like a rental, than actually owning it. (3) I mostly use it for storing my photography, so any old program like Xnview 1.6 or FastStone 2.30 is 100% sufficient. (4) I still enjoy playing with DOS.... and yes, I do keep some of those old DOS programs just out of nostalgia :-)

So essentially you just don't use your computer for much and it suits your needs?

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What's it like to get on the Internet with a 9x system? Are there even any modern browsers that still support it? What about Flash?

It's alright, no problems. Opera 12.02 and latest Flash if you have KernelEx + KexStubs installed.

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What's it like to get on the Internet with a 9x system? Are there even any modern browsers that still support it? What about Flash?

It's alright, no problems. Opera 12.02 and latest Flash if you have KernelEx + KexStubs installed.

So you could easily play YouTube vids or Flash games? What about Java issues?

Any way to play Netflix? I'm assuming not because no Silverlight.

Edited by SPX
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So essentially you just don't use your computer for much and it suits your needs?

Let me put it another way. I use my computer a lot, for the few/minimal needs I require of it.

How is Windows ME really that bad? I can burn audio CD's. I can manage and organize my photography. I can use it as a glorified typewriter. And I can do basic web surfing with it.

If I was a windows XP owner, I would be sort of irritated right now. Basically, the only reason people are being forced to upgrade is because there are criminals out there. Not because the computer itself is worthless or bad. But simply because of criminal activity. Would you get rid of your car because it doesn't have a good anti-theft device? Sole reason for throwing away a perfectly good computer. If my opinion offends anyone, sorry. I will leave and never come back.

*edit

You can read my long winded explanation in that link in post #2. I think this is the last opinion piece I will be submitting. Good day.

Edited by LostInSpace2012
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So essentially you just don't use your computer for much and it suits your needs?

Let me put it another way. I use my computer a lot, for the few/minimal needs I require of it.

How is Windows ME really that bad? I can burn audio CD's. I can manage and organize my photography. I can use it as a glorified typewriter. And I can do basic web surfing with it.

If I was a windows XP owner, I would be sort of irritated right now. Basically, the only reason people are being forced to upgrade is because there are criminals out there. Not because the computer itself is worthless. But simply because of criminal activity. Sole reason for throwing away a perfectly good computer.

I've decided not to worry about what criminal may or may not do to my computer. Instead, I'm going to enjoy it and not worry about it. Sure, I'll do what I can to prevent that... but throwing it away and spending money for something else isn't at the top of my list of options.

What I'm starting to gather, I think, is that if you want to do basic things on your computer--the same things you were doing 15 years ago--then a Win 9x machine (with a few tweaks and mods) can be used to suit your needs. But if you want to do things that require modern computing resources--watching Netflix, high-end video editing (or related video tasks like post-processing), watching Blu-Rays, playing the newest games, etc--then you really need a newer computer running a new OS.

As for XP, I don't the whole thing about Microsoft cutting off support for it. Who cares? When I had an XP machine and I turned off Windows updates and didn't even run an anti-virus/Internet security suite and there were no problems. No one is being forced to upgrade and just because Microsoft is no longer supporting the OS doesn't mean XP computers are going to stop working. As long as you're careful, you should be fine.

Edited by SPX
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So essentially you just don't use your computer for much and it suits your needs?

Let me put it another way. I use my computer a lot, for the few/minimal needs I require of it.

How is Windows ME really that bad? I can burn audio CD's. I can manage and organize my photography. I can use it as a glorified typewriter. And I can do basic web surfing with it.

If I was a windows XP owner, I would be sort of irritated right now. Basically, the only reason people are being forced to upgrade is because there are criminals out there. Not because the computer itself is worthless. But simply because of criminal activity. Sole reason for throwing away a perfectly good computer.

I've decided not to worry about what criminal may or may not do to my computer. Instead, I'm going to enjoy it and not worry about it. Sure, I'll do what I can to prevent that... but throwing it away and spending money for something else isn't at the top of my list of options.

What I'm starting to gather, I think, is that if you want to do basic things on your computer--the same things you were doing 15 years ago--then a Win 9x machine (with a few tweaks and mods) can be used to suit your needs. But if you want to do things that require modern computing resources--watching Netflix, high-end video editing (or related video tasks like post-processing), watching Blu-Rays, playing the newest games, etc--then you really need a newer computer running a new OS.

As for XP, I don't the whole thing about Microsoft cutting off support for it. Who cares? When I had an XP machine and I turned off Windows updates and didn't even run an anti-virus/Internet security suite and there were no problems. No one is being forced to upgrade and just because Microsoft is no longer supporting the OS doesn't mean XP computers are going to stop working. As long as you're careful, you should be fine.

In about 5 years, everything you said about 9x will apply to XP as well. A few years after that Vista, then 7 then 8 etc.

As far as being limited to basic stuff, I don't think so. I do quite a bit with 9x and where it is lacking I write new code to make it better. I'm still struggling to get Windows 8 to work in a 4TB Hard Drive with other stuff present. A task I solved years ago with Windows 9x.

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So you could easily play YouTube vids or Flash games? What about Java issues?

Any way to play Netflix? I'm assuming not because no Silverlight.

Flash vids OK apart from HD ones because Flash is so abysmally slow at decoding but I can use a streaming Media Player that doesn't use Flash such as QMPlay2 for those ones.

Java 7 can run in Opera 10 with some hacks, not in 11 or 12 however.

Silverlight, no but that's most probably only because nobody's made the effort to sort out installing WPF on 9x. Not much point to it IMO.

Why are you guys still running 9x?

Because I can, it's still a viable option (thanks to KernelEx and related projects) for everything if you're not into the latest commercial stuff.

No activation, whatever I do with my machine I never have to phone Microsoft to reauthorize the use of my OS. When/if I build myself a new rig on which it's not possible to run 9x, I will go Linux because I will never ever use something that require online activation and stop working whenever you upgrade a bit of hardware or two.

Edited by puntoMX
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I use Win98 to access legacy sound card functions, rarely ancient Nokia cellphone utilities that communicate via a COM port, and to play older games. Win98 also in my view includes DOS in itself, and this kind of DOS is perfectly capable of running Yamaha/AdLib sound utilities that don't run well under Windows, as well as play even older games...

This is strictly stuff that can't be done on a modern computer. Emulation isn't serious.

For Web browsing I use Opera 10.63 and Flash 10. I'm accustomed to running a web search every now and then to solve random problems. Opera 10 is the latest version that officially supported 9x and Flash 10 with KernelEx works better than 9, which hung my PC... Last time I checked, Flash 10 played YouTube vids. It may stop working any time, as they decide.

I have not a single time watched NetFlix, nor seen other people browsing it. I see that this is an unpleasant online technology, which in principle locks the user into an upgrade cycle, and into sort of dependancy from it. Neither yor computer, nor any single operating system will permanently work with that evil system. Maybe time comes and it will require some kind of DRM path and what not.

Win9x can play full quality movies, assuming your CPU is fast enough, using ffdshow and Haali components (primarily). These are movies that are fully in your ownership, which nobody can take away. I see that as the main goal, and NetFlix is just one path to reach it.

The security related support and updates of a Microsoft system are indeed mostly irrelevant. Sadly, whenever Windows becomes "unsupported", drivers also stop being developed and offered for download.

The only good thing I noticed about Me, is that I no longer needed to disable the network adapter to apply new IP configuration. The hidden DOS, the system restore and file protection that must be removed, the superficial XP features like more various "My" directories, only get in the way. Since 98SE has been the most supported OS version here (driver-wise), that is my choice to run on the old gear.

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Your basic question is "WHY?"

A simple answer is "Because we can."

Your complex questions, as you responded, appear to be "Should I or not, because of such-and-such problems?"

The answers given say "there are work-arounds, and some limitations have to be accepted."

What's your point? :unsure: You know there are multiple Topics just like this one and the Software to do "more" is available here. :yes: Go browse them rather than asking the same questions that have already been answered elsewhere. ;)

HTH

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In about 5 years, everything you said about 9x will apply to XP as well. A few years after that Vista, then 7 then 8 etc.

As far as being limited to basic stuff, I don't think so. I do quite a bit with 9x and where it is lacking I write new code to make it better. I'm still struggling to get Windows 8 to work in a 4TB Hard Drive with other stuff present. A task I solved years ago with Windows 9x.

You're right, it will apply, but I really don't see a problem with buying a new computer every five years or so, which is my usual cycle.

When you say you "do quite a bit" with 9x, can you give some examples? What advanced tasks do you perform that generally are regarded as things that can only be done on newer computers running newer OSes?

Flash vids OK apart from HD ones because Flash is so abysmally slow at decoding but I can use a streaming Media Player that doesn't use Flash such as QMPlay2 for those ones.

Java 7 can run in Opera 10 with some hacks, not in 11 or 12 however.

Silverlight, no but that's most probably only because nobody's made the effort to sort out installing WPF on 9x. Not much point to it IMO.

You use a streaming media player that doesn't use Flash to play Flash vids? I guess I don't understand how that works.

Are 9x enthusiasts hard at work trying to figure out how to make newer versions of Flash work with their systems? Because soon enough no Flash content at all is going to work. What then?

As for Silverlight, a lot of people like watching Netflix on their laptops so I'm not sure what you mean by "not much point" to it. Certain friends of mine consider this to be an essential function of their computers.

I use Win98 to access legacy sound card functions, rarely ancient Nokia cellphone utilities that communicate via a COM port, and to play older games. Win98 also in my view includes DOS in itself, and this kind of DOS is perfectly capable of running Yamaha/AdLib sound utilities that don't run well under Windows, as well as play even older games...

This is strictly stuff that can't be done on a modern computer. Emulation isn't serious.

For Web browsing I use Opera 10.63 and Flash 10. I'm accustomed to running a web search every now and then to solve random problems. Opera 10 is the latest version that officially supported 9x and Flash 10 with KernelEx works better than 9, which hung my PC... Last time I checked, Flash 10 played YouTube vids. It may stop working any time, as they decide.

I have not a single time watched NetFlix, nor seen other people browsing it. I see that this is an unpleasant online technology, which in principle locks the user into an upgrade cycle, and into sort of dependancy from it. Neither yor computer, nor any single operating system will permanently work with that evil system. Maybe time comes and it will require some kind of DRM path and what not.

Win9x can play full quality movies, assuming your CPU is fast enough, using ffdshow and Haali components (primarily). These are movies that are fully in your ownership, which nobody can take away. I see that as the main goal, and NetFlix is just one path to reach it.

The security related support and updates of a Microsoft system are indeed mostly irrelevant. Sadly, whenever Windows becomes "unsupported", drivers also stop being developed and offered for download.

The only good thing I noticed about Me, is that I no longer needed to disable the network adapter to apply new IP configuration. The hidden DOS, the system restore and file protection that must be removed, the superficial XP features like more various "My" directories, only get in the way. Since 98SE has been the most supported OS version here (driver-wise), that is my choice to run on the old gear.

Not sure what you mean by "emulation isn't serious."

When YouTube stops supporting Flash 10, what then?

I'm not sure what you mean by Netflix "is an unpleasant online technology, which in principle locks the user into an upgrade cycle, and into sort of dependancy from it. Neither yor computer, nor any single operating system will permanently work with that evil system." You lost me there.

When you say Win 9x can play full quality movies, you mean HD files? If so, from what you say, it sounds like I'd need to rip the files from my existing Blu-Rays on another system rather than playing them directly on a 9x machine.

Your basic question is "WHY?"

A simple answer is "Because we can."

Your complex questions, as you responded, appear to be "Should I or not, because of such-and-such problems?"

The answers given say "there are work-arounds, and some limitations have to be accepted."

What's your point? :unsure: You know there are multiple Topics just like this one and the Software to do "more" is available here. :yes: Go browse them rather than asking the same questions that have already been answered elsewhere. ;)

HTH

I regard this as a very time-sensitive issue. The reasoning--or at least exact reasons--may be different now for users here than they were five years ago or two years ago or even six months ago. It could be that 9x users who were perfectly comfortable using the OS this time last year are now finally thinking about moving on to a newer OS. I'm sure that this thread itself will be mostly irrelevant five years from now because times will have changed even more and people's reasons for using 9x (if indeed anyone here still will be) and their thoughts on the subject will have evolved accordingly.

I'm trying to generate a present-day dialogue and be part of that dialogue.

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