Dave-H

Interested to be offered an update to Silverlight by Microsoft Update today. I don't know if that's because I'm also getting the Windows XP Embedded updates, I had assumed that no further updates would be offered for any MS programs on XP now.

There is a much later unofficial service pack now for 98SE here. Give that a try. Good luck!

Indeed, if you looked at Help>About Internet Explorer in IE6, it always still said that it was SP2 even after updating Windows XP to SP3. Although there obviously were many subsequent updates after it changed from SP1 to SP2, that never changed. IIRC MS were actually asked why they didn't include IE7 with XP SP3, and they said they decided to let people upgrade IE manually only if they wanted to.

I didn't think there was a SP3 for IE6, perhaps it came out after I upgraded to IE8. IIRC IE6 SP2 came with Windows XP SP2 (it was never released for Windows 2000), but Windows XP SP3 didn't include an update for IE.

Well I got a reply from Supermicro. Not unexpectedly they just said that the X7DVL-E hasn't been in production for many years and (of course) was never tested with Windows 8. That doesn't mean that it won't work with it of course. My present board, an X5DAE, was never tested with Windows 98, but works fine with it! I have asked them if they have any other recommended hardware for what I want to do.

I guess the only way to find out if I can deactivate and uninstall Windows 8.1 from my netbook and then use the same disks to do a new install and activation on another machine is to actually try it! I still think I'll go with Windows 8 as long as Supermicro come back and tell me it will be OK. Otherwise I'll look on eBay for some Windows 7 FPP disks. That's how I got my Windows 2000 to Windows XP upgrade!

LOL, well of course that could well indeed be an issue, but if I can't now install and activate the 64bit version I can presumably deactivate and uninstall the 32bit version from my netbook if necessary.

Thanks Den, of course I value your opinion immensely! The reason I was going to go with 8.1 was simply because I already have a 64bit Windows 8 installation disk, which was sent to me when I upgraded my netbook from Windows 7 Starter to Windows 8. They sent a 32bit disk and a 64bit disk, and I only used the 32bit version on the netbook of course. It was a cheap upgrade offered when Windows 8 launched which I wasn't really eligible for as I only had Windows 7 Starter, but I tried it and it worked! I later did the free upgrade to Windows 8.1, which I would hope to be able to do again. From experience with my netbook, once you've put Classic Shell on it, Windows 8.1 seems fine. Classic Shell is one of those programs that is so brilliant you can't believe that it's actually free! I now have a start menu on Windows 8.1 that looks and acts exactly the same as the start menu of Windows 98 and XP, which actually makes Windows 8.1 usable IMO. Classic Shell even allowed you to boot straight to the desktop before MS officially added the facility in 8.1. Interesting that you suggest Linux as a third OS, I will certainly consider that if it proves impossible to get Windows 98SE to work on the new system. I have e-mailed Supermicro to see if they think that Windows 8.1 will be OK on that motherboard, I'll let you know what they come back with. Cheers, Dave.

Thanks, yes reading it that way it does sound more hopeful! Looking at the drivers offered for that board however, the only drivers offered for Windows 8/8.1 are for the LAN, there are no others listed. There are chipset drivers for Windows 7 however, and I would think it's likely that they would also work with Windows 8. If I'm going to go for this, I would rather go for Windows 8.1 than Windows 7. I think I will just e-mail Supermicro support and ask them if Windows 8.1 will work with that motherboard.

That's very interesting, in fact I am getting the blank window so presumably need the hotfix! My shdocvw.dll file is older than the one in the hotfix, but as it's a hotfix you need to request from MS and can't just download, I don't think I'll bother!

That's good to know Den! I still wonder why they would update files for IE6 installations but not for IE7 or 8, unless the updates weren't actually necessary in those browsers.

Any thoughts on this Den, or anyone else? Any opinions for or against what I'm considering would be very welcome.

Hmm, I don't think I'll bother doing that then! Presumably these later files aren't that critical for IE7 and IE8 or they would surely have been included in the updates for those browsers.

Thanks Den, good to know that Windows 98SE can run on 64bit hardware. Driver availability is another issue though of course! I've actually found a possible Supermicro motherboard that looks attractive, a X7DVL-E. It's not too different from the one I've already got, and has an impressive amount of expansion slots. It's from 2009, and therefore still has a floppy connector and serial ports (and a header for a parallel port)! It doesn't have on-board sound, which my board does, but it does have on-board graphics, which mine doesn't. It also has one IDE connector, which I can work around. The details are here. It uses an Intel 5000V chipset, which I don't know very much about, but it supports Windows XP of course. Obviously Windows 98 would be a problem, both with the chipset and the graphics, in fact even finding Windows 7/8 drivers for the ES1000 graphics looks a bit dodgy! I could of course just replace the on-board graphics with an add-in card, which I will have to use for sound anyway. My main worry is that the motherboard won't actually support Windows 7 or 8. It's not actually listed as supporting Vista in Supermicro's OS compatibility chart. The only motherboard in that series that says it's compatible with Vista is the X7DVL-L, which is far too limited on expansion slots to be any use to me. The X7DVL-E motherboard is still available here in England for a reasonable price. Any thoughts? Cheers, Dave.

Thanks Den, and sorry for the delay in replying. I must say when I looked at those links my heart did sink a bit! I really don't want to end up having two separate systems, so it looks as if I will have to make compromises, as I thought I would. That Asus motherboard looks very interesting (and is remarkably cheap!) and I do have other Asus hardware (netbooks and monitors) that I've been very pleased with, so it certainly deserves some consideration. I like the fact that it has on-board sound and graphics, which means more room for expansion cards. It doesn't seem to have any IDE interfaces (although I was pleased to see that it still has PS/2!) but I guess that can be added via an expansion card to drive my IDE hardware until I update it all to SATA. One question I still haven't been able to find a definitive answer for is whether Windows 98SE can run at all on a 64bit system. I know of course that there was never a 64bit version of 98, but is the backwards compatibility good enough to let it run at all on 64bit hardware, ignoring the driver problems for a moment?! Cheers, Dave.

Really sorry for the multiple posts guys! I was just getting SQL server errors whenever I tried to post the new topic, and tried multiple times without realising that they'd actually worked! Please remove the duplicates. EDIT: Thanks!

Hi all, I really wasn't sure where to put this thread, as it relates to Windows XP, Windows 98SE, and Windows 7/8! As XP is "piggy in the middle" here though this is where I'm starting it, mods please feel free to move it if you need to. I'm after advice on an upgrade to my system. This has been prompted by the fact that a piece of software I use all the time has just (without any warning) gone 64 bit only. My motherboard (a Supermicro X5DAE) is now over ten years old (2003) but it was very expensive so I have stuck with it. It's a dual processor Xeon server board, and has served me very well for many years now dual booting Windows 98SE and Windows XP. I'm now looking at a 64bit upgrade, and I'm wondering if what I am considering is at all possible (or sane!) Supermicro sell a 64bit equivalent of the board I have, and as I've been very pleased with my current board I'm thinking that would be the obvious route to take. What I want to do, in an ideal scenario, is to have a triple boot machine, with the Windows 98 and Windows XP that I've got, with the addition of a 64bit installation of Windows 7 or 8.1. I of course realise that driver availability will be a severe and very probably insurmountable problem with this setup. I'll probably be lucky to find any XP drivers for the new motherboard, and there certainly won't be any 98SE ones! It is an Intel based motherboard though, and I was wondering how successful I might be with generic drivers, even if there is some loss of functionality. Drivers for the graphics card will be a big problem of course, as will interfacing the rest of my hardware, which includes four devices which use IDE interfaces. Fundamentally, will my 32bit Windows XP work on a 64bit motherboard anyway? My researches seem to indicate that it will, as there is backwards compatibility, but what about Windows 98SE? Will that run (driver problems apart) on a 64bit processor and motherboard anyway? I know I can run it in a virtual machine, but I'd rather run it natively if it's at all possible. So, am I speaking of the impossible here? Of course being a computer hobbyist I really just want to do this to prove that I can, not for any practical reason! If I was being completely realistic I'd just upgrade to 64bit Windows 8.1 only and be done with it, but where would be the fun in that! Any thoughts gratefully received. Cheers, Dave.

Got it now, thanks!

Thanks harkaz! I take it it's not actually there yet. The download link just says "Reuploading the sfxcab installer".

I wonder if the person who had the problem had messed with the "ProductSuite" registry entry. As far as I'm concerned if Windows Update still offers and installs the new patches without changing that, I'm leaving well alone! I have always manually scanned for and installed updates on Windows Update anyway, I've never let it do it automatically as I like to know exactly what's being offered before I allow it to be downloaded and installed. It goes without saying that you must switch off the "Automatic Updates" option in the Control Panel too!

It will be interesting to see if MS do try to block this somehow. It can hardly have come as a surprise to them that people have discovered it! I'm hoping that as long as it's confined to a relatively few geeks like us they won't worry too much, after all we're hardly going to be expecting support for it!

Thanks harkaz, I've re-downloaded the three files you modified which are relevant to my system. Two of them I have re-installed the updates anyway using Microsoft Update, but do I need to manually reinstall KB2931352? It did appear to install OK the first time before you modified it. Cheers and thanks, Dave.

Well I've installed the offered updates using Microsoft Update, carefully one by one, and there has been no ill effects so far! The only one missing that I had installed on my other machine using harkaz's files was the KB2931352 .NET update, which MS Update isn't offering. BTW I was heartened to see in my local supermarket today one of their brand new self-service tills rebooting, and yes, it looked very like XP!

Thanks, that is reassuring! I don't have Security Essentials installed, I use Trend Titanium Internet Security, so it will be interesting to see what that makes of it.