98SE

How were you able to isolate what was causing your "MS-DOS compatability mode" to pop up for your drives if you using a clean config that wasn't caused by drivers? Did you try booting 98SE off a USB and doing the same tests? Did MS-DOS compatibility mode pop up?

Good to hear. I'll outline again what I'd like you to test since the system will be for your son after tonight. MAKE SURE THE 98SE BOOT DISK you created is clean and unaltered. IO.SYS and COMMAND.COM should be original and untouched do not patch to what you had called the "Usher method" Use the Format A:/S with a 1.44MB floppy disk booting off your original 98SE CD. Copy Mem.exe from the Windows\Command directory off the 98SE CD to the Floppy disk. [Test 1] Clean 98SE DOS boot disk (no config.sys no autoexec.bat) with mem.exe from 98SE CD. 16GB installed (8GB x2) Mem > Mem1.txt Mem /c > Mem2.txt [Test 2] Clean 98SE DOS boot disk (no config.sys no autoexec.bat) with mem.exe from 98SE CD. 8B installed (8GB x1) Mem > Mem3.txt Mem /c > Mem4.txt [Test 3] You can use your modified files you called the Usher method here. 98SE booted off your config.sys and autoexec.bat settings that you had but going straight to DOS So set the MSDOS.SYS for BOOTGUI=0 16 GB installed (8GB x2) Mem > Mem5.txt Mem /c > Mem6.txt [Test 4] You can use your modified files you called the Usher method here. 98SE booted off your config.sys and autoexec.bat settings that you had but going straight to DOS So set the MSDOS.SYS for BOOTGUI=0 8 GB installed (8GB x1) Mem > Mem7.txt Mem /c > Mem8.txt Now finally upload all test files Mem1-Mem8 making sure no mix up for the filenames for each corresponding test. Add the config.sys, autoexec, and system.ini files as well used in your "unworking" 157MB Windows 98SE boot up. Later if you have time to follow up just two minor BIOS tweaks before building the computer for your son. How low can you set the Core Ratio or Underclock the System in MHz? Were you able to switch Cores from 6 to 1?

Perhaps leaving the original copy here and adding a second copy of it to that thread and adding a original thread link at the bottom of it from where it was extracted in case someone wanted to know where it originated.

I did predict the coffin coming down and the tombstone is laid out in preparation. However seeing if this truly the end of the road (for newer chipsets) as I earlier already predicted and by your two recent 100 series and AM4 results although I have other ideas that might work and it helps to have the actual hardware in front of you and I might be your last hope to confirm through exhaustive efforts if the final nail in the coffin is to be hammered in and the coffin lowered into the ground. Unless you are willing to buy your own set of 100 series and AM4 motherboards to test if any of your patches will change this outcome this is your last chance for access to someone with the skill, hardware, and most importantly time to troubleshoot it. Starting with Z77 for testing since it has a combination of both PCI and PCIe slots I'm able to thoroughly test and move cards around or eliminate and adjust BIOS settings and run a battery of testing (time consuming) before finalizing my results. However seeing this board may have less than a month ? and it appears to be your main domain for luring any potential follow up customers it's probably more your bread and butter for 9X/ME clients. I can only offer I'm testing all possibilities before closing up my experiments. So if there are any patches you want me to try out in my Z77, Z170, and AM4 tests this is your last opportunity. Any results I find working or not working with your patches will be reported here as proof. And given my username probably no better endorsement if they help in any way succeed in making any newer chipsets work. If want to attach any programs you want tested made available for all on here to use freely you can attach it here or if are you still withholding certain ones for a fee but still want me to test them (I will not distribute) as part of my experiments just for the purpose of confirming whether your program will or will not assist in making it work or fix any instabilities you can PM me with a direct link of the working program which I will keep solely for testing. Otherwise I will just finish my experiments and once done it may or may not be the final nail in the coffin depending on the outcome but it will be as thorough as you'll get from anyone.

Tested nVidia GeForce 7600 GS PCIe 256MB 82.69 modified - installed but failed to black screen on desktop. Will test McKracken drivers next. "http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/97786-geforce-67-and-8-agppci-e-driver-edition-for-win98me-by-zak/"

Both cards used IRQ5 so that isn't the problem or the SB Live would have had the same issues. Last few days it seems stable. SB Live definitely is a better choice. I had spent a whole day on the Ensoniq and I think that's enough. I'm still testing with DX 6.1a which I believe was the original version that came with 98SE. I am planning on testing 7.0, 8.0, 9.0 later to see if that changes anything but SB LIVE drivers might be more stable and has support for XP+.

Just don't tear down the system right away when you're done. Just let me know you can make a clean bootable 98SE DOS floppy and copy MEM to it and you should be good or need help. I assume you're pretty good with DOS or you wouldn't use 98SE since it is a love hate relationship with DOS/WIN. I have a 4GB DDR4 here. I used it to troubleshoot the Z170. The other ones I have are single stick 16GB DDR4 which are too large but since you have 16 GB in (8GB x2) and a single 8GB x 1 I can do some comparisons. Do two tests pulling the two mem commands outputs I listed. Two for the 16GB (8GB x 2) and repeat the test for the 8GB x 1 single stick So you should have 4 mem output text files. the last two you can output to mem3.txt and mem4.txt to differentiate before attaching to upload. When I get a chance to try out the AM4 I'll probably use the 4GB DDR4 unless I can find a 2GB DDR4 for cheap. But I want to check out these 4 output files first. I had noticed something similar on the Z170 losing 1GB of RAM out of the first 4GB but that was on XP.

I was mistaken, it didn't extract properly. The converter from .7z to .Zip seemed to correct something and the inside file extracted properly. I now see the 157.0MB shown in the photo. Can you upload your config.sys and autoexec.bat files that you had for that system you booted? Add the system.ini in case you modified it.

I have no problem opening the attachment it's the RTF file I can't open maybe because you are using Office or something to save it. What was inside the RTF and can you split it OR upload it to another location for download? See if you can just do that simple DOS Mem test for me and pull the two mem files commands and upload them. I know you've given up but I am getting AM4 MB on the way and want to do a comparison of the results to see. Also using a Windows based tool is not the same as what I'm asking. This might not solve your problem but it might give some ideas of what could be happening since I also use DDR4 on the Z170. First provide the results of the original 16GB DDR4. Then if you can get a 2GB DDR4 or 4GB DDR4 repeat the same test and upload the two files. There are some other tests I could have you do to see if AM4 compatibility is better than Z170 afterwards.

That old post was regarding my Z170 but I'm focused on the Z77 for testing before moving back to it. But looking at some of the problems with the USB ports not working it is due to the removal of eHCI ports on Skylake so until USB 3.0 drivers for 98SE are properly written you won't be able to use those on Board USB 3 ports. You can try the USB 2.0 headers on the MB but from what I've read they are based off of the USB 3.0 controller so I think they might not work but give those a try using a USB 2.0 header bracket and test it out. Did the rear USB 2.0 ports not work even for the USB mouse or USB keyboard before applying NUSB? There are some strict limits on your MB choice. I would take the 7900 GTO and test it for you. Which video driver did you use for the test? The worst limitation on your MB is only two PCIe slots to play with. If you can find a better one (ATX) with 2 or more PCI slots and the rest PCIe then at least you won't feel as restricted and won't need to have a USB card installed. I might look at some SB Audigy PCIe to test later to see if they can be hacked to work with 98SE since a PCI model exists they could be driver compatible. Another issue is the IRQ conflict. I tested a few PCI/PCIe cards and adding a USB card can conflict with it so it might come down to choosing a PCI/PCIe sound card vs a USB card and using a USB sound card. This could be a tough choice.

I'm the one with the Z170 on MSFN. This post above contains the specs of the test build that should go to to the thread below: MOVE this "http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/176889-pci-to-pcie-adapter-work-great/?do=findComment&comment=1142085" Can we get a moderator to move this post to the top of this new thread? TO here "http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/176983-ultimate-98se-pc-ultimate-disappointment/"

<<constant freezes when there's lots of file moving/copying. What are you doing when this going on? Are you running a program or just idling on the desktop? Your MB only has two PCIe slots, one tied up by the Graphics card leaving you with just the PCIe slot. I'd go with a PCIe sound card if all you want to do is game. But if you want to hook up other external hard drives then you have to get a PCIe USB card and then try your USB sound card on it. So the choice is between gaming by adding a PCIe sound card or if you want external storage access (and the possibility of the USB sound card working) go with a PCIe USB card and hope it works without issues. Sometimes you have to take a break and sleep and a new idea pops in your head overnight or during the relax period. This 98SE is a headache (reliving) it can be frustrating but the payoff is when it's finally working. What programs are planning for this system to run in the end aside from the benchmark when the build is working?

You only added this line to solve the compat. nag? Keep the experiments going... Always interesting to see what else can be done.

Creative Labs uses IRQ5 for the newer sounds cards. The SB Live is working it's the Ensoniq that couldn't handle multiple audio streams at once. I ran 6 simultaneous files with continuous playback while using Mame and DOSBOX.

How many files are this this attachment? I couldn't open it due to some compression error in the RTF. Can you separate the files out individually if they are jpg? Unplug everything all adapters and cards, hook up a USB floppy drive and bootable disk with a clean 98SE DOS (no config.sys or autoexec.bat) with only the MEM DOS program on it. All you need is one graphics card 128MB or less for PCIe or you can use a PCI one if it has got 8MB to 64MB video memory and use your PCIe to PCI slot adapter. Do a DOS Mem check. MEM > Mem.txt and attach that here. MEM /c > Mem2.txt and attach that here.

I thought you meant you were using a different brand of the NEC chipset PCI-E USB card since your Gigabyte GA-X99-UD4P has no PCI slots. So you are not using any USB cards at all and just the onboard Intel for USB 2.0? Without NUSB 3.5 drivers loaded were the on board rear USB 2.0 ports working properly for USB mouse and USB keyboard?

Sound Blaster Live PCI testing... Scouring the internet for working drivers. http://www.mdgx.com/sbdrv/ http://www.mdgx.com/sbdrv/SB_Live!Ware_3.0_CD_ISO+update.7z Multiple Audio and Video stream tests overlapping successful. Ensoniq PCI - Disqualified as 98SE compliant stability on Z77.

Is it necessary to format within 98SE? Copying from 360KB, 720KB, 1.2MB, 1.44MB, and 2.88MB floppies should be fine. Instead of using DOS 2.10, use at least MS-DOS 5.0 since you are using a pretty modern system and are experiencing problems. DOS 2.1 is better suited for low memory under 640KB systems like the IBM PCjr or the IBM PC. Make sure you confirm you have a TEAC 360KB 5 1/4 Floppy drive and not a 1.2MB for best compatibility. Hook up Floppy Cable (Dual Drive) using the end of the ribbon cable connector to the 360KB Floppy drive and Molex power connector. Do not use the center cable connector or it will not detect this drive. Only use the middle connector for the 2nd Floppy drive but for the purpose of this test do not hook a 2nd floppy disk drive. Make sure the floppy connector to the floppy drive is correctly oriented Red stripe for Pin 1. Double check The Floppy Drive Ribbon cable connected to the motherboard is correctly plugged in. Some Floppy Cables don't have a notch and you could plug it in the wrong orientation. I know 3.5" drives have fried from this but I think 5.25" drives might be a little sturdier if plugged in wrong and turned off. Check BIOS and set the Floppy Disk Drive #1 to 360KB 5 1/4" setting, not 720KB, not 1.2MB, not 1.44MB, and not 2.88MB. Set Floppy Disk Drive #2 to None. If there is an option for Swap Floppy Drives set to No. Make sure the BIOS is set to Boot Priority #1 Set BIOS to do Floppy seek test if present. Save BIOS settings and reboot. Insert a DOS 5.0 Bootable 5 1/4" disk fully and turn the locking mechanism solid. Once rebooting there should be a Floppy seeking light on and you could hear the floppy drive motor moving briefly. It should load the DOS 5.0 disk get to the date and time prompt, Enter twice to skip those. Format A:/U It should load and ask you to insert a disk to be formatted. Make sure the 5 1/4" diskette is DS DD for 360KB and nod DS HD which is for 1.2MB and look almost identical. When the disk is inserted hit Enter to begin formatting. Format another diskette enter N for No. DIR just to check the Floppy is formatted readable and empty. If you need a DOS bootable disk replace FORMAT A:/U with FORMAT A:/U/S That's as low level as you can go. This should work and if it doesn't the Floppy Drive could be defective. If this worked then you can try it inside Windows 98 by clicking the Start Button Run Type "Command" without quotes. Enter FORMAT A:/U It should work as long as everything previously configured is the same. But it is better to Restart to MS-DOS Prompt from 98SE (exiting out of 98SE). I hardly format 5 1/4" diskettes within that OS and prefer Pure DOS level or use a Bootable MS-DOS 5.0 disk. 1.44MB diskettes should be fine inside 98SE and shouldn't experience any problems. 720KB I haven't tested formatting in 98SE in some time but I'd go with MS-DOS 5.0 or 98SE Pure DOS mode and you'll need to use the Format parameters for forcing 720KB if the 3 1/2 drive is not a 720KB floppy drive.

I thought DX10 for XP were just fake. I think I tried testing a few of those. Any concrete testing done by you or any links showing the results? Dibya got DX10 or DX11 working in XP some time ago according to him. I'm not sure if that was limited to certain games or if the game required modding to work.

Which one did you test PCIe NEC? Did the 98SE drivers install automatically or did you have to manually add them? Any other things you had to do to make them work with USB storage drives? I think the news is they exist but just haven't been tested until now. I tested the PCI USB card with 6 USB ports. 2 ports if you plug a device in it will freeze up 98SE if you plug the devices inside the OS while running or if you plug them in before loading the OS it doesn't make a difference. So stick with 4 port USB ports or tape over the USB ports that you find that don't work only if you're only using this for 98SE. I think XP and later OS will be fine for all 6 ports.

nVidia GeForce 6600 GT PCIe 256MB Functional so far. Windows 9x/ME Drivers - ForceWare Version: 77.72 Release Date: June 22, 2005 http://download.nvidia.com/Windows/77.72/77.72_win9x_international.exe

Do you have a confirmed link matching the driver from the CD that came with the sound card matching on the C-media site? I don't think the main site carries the 9X/ME drivers anymore or maybe I missed it. IS this SoundWave 5.1 PCI 9X/ME driver compatible? Photo shows a PCI card. SoundWave 5.1 PCI IC-510012-S2 http://www.siig.com/download/search/?keyword=IC-510012-S2 Hardware Version: 1 VXD http://www.siig.com/media/files/drivers/0005/sw51_95-me_v1.1.exe WDM: http://www.siig.com/media/files/drivers/0005/sw51_xp-2003_v1.1.exe

What's the link? It might be possible to use it to hack the future drivers to continue using Vista (my preferred 64-bit OS) user interface.

I have tried both PCI and PCIe USB cards so far. It seems if I used the PCI and PCIe of the same Chipset it hangs before booting to BIOS. So it might only be possible to mix two different Chipsets one NEC and one VIA. Looks like great minds think alike. Did your EXSYS EX-11066 Auto install drivers once it booted into 98SE or did you have to manually add it? I use the PCIe ones on the Z170 for the XP/7/10 drivers. Looks like the added 9X/ME driver benefit is going to pay off.

There is a SB Audigy PCIe model. It might be interesting to see if the SB Audigy PCI model driver can work with it by just adding the Hardware ID.