sonyu

future is react os, wine or some kernelex, one core api... there is no "recycle bin" on earth to throw away all the computers manufactured between 2008-2016 (Windows 7, 8 compatible drivers) this forced programmed obsolescence doesn't have sense and more important: doesn't have a place in this world. Why MS want us to run a laggy OS which seems like it's running Android (UWP/Metro Apps can be considered another os running on top of the Win32 NT api) at the same time? What's a computer for these days ? what can't be done on 2008-2016 computers? If someone invents a small mini PCI-E GPU for a laptop, compatible with Windows 7 or 8 drivers, we will be able to stay with the best OS & GUI (after XP) forever... Every time I try it I remember how fast was w98 on that old hardware...

second video has dwm enabled (aero theme) edit: and at the beginning of the first video (window resize) dwm is enabled too (aero theme visible too)

Yes, slow GUI since Windows 7 WDDM, direct2d and directwrite. Anyway, Windows 8.0 runs really smooth compared to 7, 10 & 11

In my opinion w10 & w11 can use resources and cpu better but the UI, DPI, WDDM, Pagination. Memory compression... make the user experience slower losing cpu cycles that's the reason the benchmarks are higher on w10&w11 but general usage and ui is slower. As always, the more new hardware you have the less you won't feel this. I really don't understand why w10 and w11 can't run file explorer (explorer.exe) and a common browser (chrome / firefox) without lag as in w7, w8 or w8.1. And the GUI.... I really don't like it... Windows XP and Windows 8 have the best gui, in terms of taking advantage of the screen. and also taskbar and caption buttons and fonts... of course can be tweaked as I have done in another post but one can't be productive with w10 & w11 taskbar. But I don't want to go offtopic. I try my tweaks with every new windows version and then I try opening programs, dragging new tab on chrome for example and it all has lag drawing... 2D and ui drawing it's slow even on high end hardware. It's not a personal opinion. Do you remember how did you feel installing Vista on hardware that runs XP? That's how I feel when I install Windows 10 or 11 on hardware that can run windows 8. This is 100% accurate description of how it feels. In my opinion they are currently inspired by Android and MacOS X (and bit a of Elementary Os maybe) offering all easy and pretty and its own app store. But I'm old school and also NEW is not better when something runs fine. It's all Programmed obsolescence, starting from 2008 hardware, all desktops and laptops with windows 8 / 8.1 can give a good computer usage experience: Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Youtube, Web, Emails... just put SSD on it... but we are all forced to upgrade.... non sense. blackwingcat proved that it is not necessary to have the last operating system to run new versions of MS Office for example. Same happens with One Core api... Of course it's not all bad, we have tons of gigabytes of ram nowadays and web is bigger than ever and resource usage is really high so they introduced memory compression and cache improvements that aren't present on w7,w8 and w8.1 but.... the lag is the lag. I can see both sides: the good and the bad of all this new Vista aka 10/11 oses... but I can't see nothing bad on w8 and w8.1 only benefits and no lag.

Is there a fast way to integrate all Server 2012 updates into Windows 8.0 ? @WinClient5270 @Jody Thornton @NoelC @greenhillmaniac Windows 8.0 is the best NT6 Thank you all Edit: I mean without NTLite

Ok ! Thank you all for your efforts with these acpi versions ! I love Windows XP, one of the best OSes

@Mov AX, 0xDEAD Yes, I remember running w7 and w8 live usbs to test the acpi.sys mods Ok, I know it's about XP/2K3. Fastest OS until Windows 8.0 (which is the fastest NT6 OS & doesn't have any lag, no dpi problems, no memory compression, no video memory pagination the way it's happening on w10. But I don't want to go off-topic). @Damnation talked about w8.0 acpi.sys A5 error and immediately I thinked in my modded acpi.sys to run w8.0 on current hardware so I commented to say if the file can help to make the XP version the same way. here Is there any live USB based on XP Integral edition?

@Mov AX, 0xDEAD I'm following this thread since the deleted topic about running XP on modern hardware on "the other forum", I don't know if it helps but I get 0xA5 on Windows 8.0 with default acpi.sys & Intel CPU from 2018, BUT running a modded version of Windows 8.0 acpi.sys, I can boot it. Since you're talking about w8,0 maybe this acpi.sys version can help you with the XP modded acpi version? Just tell me and I will send you the modded version I'm interested too on running XP on modern hardware: NVME + GPT + UEFI + ACPI mod This is also the latest available info about running XP on modern hardware: TXT (99 KB, English) - https://yadi.sk/d/JCLixO6xixweRg TXT (111KB, Russian) - https://yadi.sk/d/Xxq4IGOSOnVZqw

MS (and computer era) isn't what it used to be. Windows is in a neverending "beta" stage or at least I feel it like that. Forcing users to upgrade without any option to have some control over updates can be considered a type of programmed obsolescence in some manner. isn't it? At least they tested the OS before the RTM version in the good old days, or it's what BG says here. Check 00:12:06 : the best thing that could happen will be to start a new Windows version from Windows 8.0, no dpi, no wddm 1.3 / 2.0 video memory pagination, no memory compression, no tons of background processes, no telemetry, no xaml, no metro, no cortana, no meltdown, no spectre... just the good old "click & run" like Windows XP Personal Computer isn't personal anymore. Who wants to buy a computer with this Webpage-alike-Windows running an infinite number of things in background wasting your time, your cpu, ram... just to do the same only difference it's all are shown with more colors here and there... wooow what easy is all... An era ended with w10 version 1511 10586. Any after this (even this) it's a beta OS with a strange & confused GUI. Just a personal opinion. w10/11 memory, cpu and resource management sure it's better but we want less. LESS IS MORE. Why can't we switch between WDDM versions ? or turn things like gpu memory pagination on or off ? why can't we switch DWM versions ? This will be a true advantage... not all these widgets and a new taskbar with less functionality with every new version... Just read this and tell me how do you feel: Windows 9x, 2000, XP, Vista, 7, 8.0. It all started here. The most incredible invention. The taskbar, the GUI, the ".exe", the control panel, the start button, the start menu... the way we loved:

Will this patch make Windows ME compatible with DOSBOX ?

@NotHereToPlayGames Reducing runtime memory in Windows 8 https://web.archive.org/web/20170918122254/https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/b8/2011/10/07/reducing-runtime-memory-in-windows-8/

8.1 is not a bad OS. But: - The UI lag we have and know in w10 right now, started with 8.1 why? Cause new DPI improvements, new Virtual GPU memory pagination and other new features were introduced with this OS with the introduction of WDDM 1.3. do you remember "Windows Blue" ? WDDM 1.2 ( Windows 8.0 ) it's the best WDDM version. You can try Windows 8,0 on all hardware (only requirement is WDDM drivers) and it will improve any Windows XP, Vista and 7 machine (all are good OSes, well.. vista sp2 I mean). You won't have this improvement when you install Windows 8.1 on the same old hardware. The more memory you use on Windows 8.1 the more you will notice how laggy the UI can be. Try it yourself. I have nothing against Windows 8.1, 7, XP or Vista. I tried them all, and I love XP. But after I tried w10 RTM, Windows 10 beta builds on modern hardware (less lag than RTM or 1511 or anything after >1607) and all other Windows 10 builds, as you can see in the following link, I can confirm Windows 8.0 makes a difference on every hardware I tried, it's the last Windows you can decently run on old WDDM compatible hardware and the fastest experience on modern hardware. Start button isn't relevant for me, why? You can run explorer.exe from Windows 7 on w8,0 and you'll have the start button and the start menu or you can install a million alternatives to get start button and menu working on w8.0. The really only interesting part it's the kernel, the virtual memory pagination, the memory management, the WDDM version 1.2 (you can also install some 8.1 gpu drivers on it) and of course the UI lag. In other words, for me Windows 8.0 it's the new Windows XP. All software work on 8.0, no incompatibilities. Just click and run like the good old school windows 9x and 2k and xp and 2k3. It's like Windows 7 but with native uefi support, dwm improvements, memory improvements and less lag than 8.1 or 10. Windows 8.0 it's more like 7. Windows 8.1 it's more like 10. Why? Cause 8.1 loves memory like 10. Anyway you can run Windows 10 1511 on some old hardware from 2008 era and you'll have a better experience playing browser videos, youtube... than you'll have on 7,8.0 or 8.1. it's not all bad, it has a really interesting process, memory and cpu management... but again the more memory you use the more lag you'll have on the UI cause it has WDDM 2.0. This never happens on w8.0 and when you have lot of memory used on 8.0, you can use standby memory cleaner and memreduct and all will be free in seconds like when Windows started. All this comment is based on years of experience. I use windows since 3.1, I spend tons of hours in 95, 98, ME, XP and 2k3. And considering the resources you need these days to run modern software, I get the best and fastest experience in Windows 8.0. both 8.0 and 8.1 are great OSes. but less is more and I can't find the simplicity of 8.0 on 8.1. modern windows 10 UI lag started with 8.1, this is why I love WDDM 1.2 and 8.0 I tried 8.1 and 8.0 on netbooks (atoms, celerons...), powerful desktops, i3, i5, i7, dedicated gpus, integrated gpus... and I always ended using 8.0 having the best experience. better than xp, vista and 7. you will end having the best of an era with windows 8.0: I mean the best of 9x, 2k, xp, 2k3, vista and 7. And of course, I really don't believe the GUI lag of these OSes >10 are caused by less powerful hardware. It's all about how the OS works. If you don't believe think how fast Windows 95 and 98 worked without tons of RAM and SSDs and resources here and there. Even Windows 2000 with the kernel extension shows us how all these modern windows versions are really laggy and feels like a beta OSes. Windows 10/11 it's now like a videogame you need to check first if you have all the minimum resources to play it. To run what or to do what? And all these Metro Apps running in background... it's like a webpage... lot of colours, animations... Click here to remember what a real OS it is. Or here Long live windows 8.0. The best. And why it's better than Windows 7 ? Long story short. Article about 8.0 wrote while MS was finishing the development of Windows 8 RTM release date: https://web.archive.org/web/20170918122254/https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/b8/2011/10/07/reducing-runtime-memory-in-windows-8/ Yes it's the ONLY windows version that needs less memory than it's predecessor.

@Tonny52 Modern NET Framework 4.8 can be installed on 1507 and 1511. Not officially but there is a way. I don't know if I'm allowed to post the how to here, 1511 it's the fastest I tried since 10.0.10074 beta compared to all other w10 modern builds. 1507 aka 10240 aka LTSB 2015 is not bad, but WDDM 2.0 works better with less ui lag in this build. Anyway best and fastest Windows it's 8.0 x64 of course

Windows 8.0 6.2.9200 is the best Windows with WDDM 1.2. I'm interested in this too since it's also possible to install Net Framework 4.8 on Server 2012 (same kernel as 8.0) and also PowerShell version 5.1

@ABCDEFG May you please reupload the video? I'm interested too in this

@LowLander The only problem with these builds is the taskbar skin option in StartIsBack by @Tihiy doesn't skin the taskbar buttons, it shows empty icons instead but you can use ViGlance by Lee-soft You can also port w8.1 files and use an utility to display W8.1 taskbar

search for w10 debloat scripts After some tests, I can say 10102 has a faster interface compared to 10064. They are really close in some performance tests, but Windows Interface in 10102 it's similar to w8.1 So in general terms 10102 it's faster and more stable than 10064 and 10074: 10102 > 10064 > 10074

I'm currently getting similar performance on LTSB 2015 updated and slimmed down and with lot of tweaks... When I say a lot I'm talking about multiple .reg and .bat files However I'm gonna apply all these tweaks on 10064 to see if I get similar score on PerformanceTest

@LowLander fre versions (CHK is checked build with extra packages for debugging) so: amd64fre_client-professional x86fre_client-enterprise x86fre_client-professional enterprise versions are faster but there is no x64 version, professional is ok in this case. Regards Currently I'm doing some tests on LTSB 2015 with a lot of tweaks applied. I'll post results about how fast it can be and also compared to 10064.

@LowLander 10074>10586>10240 In terms of performance, less resource usage, better cpu benchmark & better graphics... but 10064>10074 in terms of windows interface performance 10064 is the first 100% stable wddm 2.0 build and one of the latest Technical Preview Performance comparison between builds: Cpu sinlge thread performance: 10064>10102>10074 (yes, there's also a 10102 build dated before 10074) Gpu performance: 10102>10074>10062 windows interface performance: 10064>1074>10102 you need to tweak them a little so... considering I want the less UI lag as possible with best cpu usage, 10064 it's the best, also the most old so it's close to w8.1 10064,10102 and 10074 are faster than 10586. UI has less lag.

@Mr.Scienceman2000 Yes, w98 flies on these hardware. What I said is: why actual windows versions doesn't work faster than how w98 works in Pentium 150mhz, considering we have increased the hardware of these days x1000

@RanCorX2 what I said is w10 / w11 (aka w10 with new UI) it's getting slower with every new build I have it tweaked, with all bloatware removed, with all possible tweaks and I use some w81 dll files on it, but you can compare yourself the Windows Interface score between w8, w81, w10 beta, w10 rtm, w10 AU and w10 19XX & 20XX and w11 on "PerformanceTest" utility and you will see each score (in Windows Interface option) lower than the previous (if you do it from older to newer windows version w8->w10->w11) doesn't matter if you have tweaked all or if you disabled immersive shell (metro ui), it's not all bad, memory management of w10 it's better than w8 / 81 but GPU virtual VRAM pagination starting with WDDM 2.0 it's really a penalty. w11 has some potential but the UI isn't optimized, I think it's time for a new "w2k3toworkstation" but with w11 server, of course cause you need to apply 1000 tweaks and when you have a good working OS, "voila" windows shows "new update KBXXXXX is pending install". The only reason to have these new OSes starting with Vista, is the use of RAM cache and better memory management and also better cpu resource management. But starting with w8.1 GPU vram management gets worse, but still a nice OS compared to w10. w11 has potential, but for some reason they don't spend time optimizing the UI and adds tons of bloatware, icons, images, effects, transparencies, shadows, sounds, logon UI screens. w95,w98,wXP these were the good old days... Now we have an OS which is like a website. Why don't MS enable registry keys to force WDDM version? or to disable VRAM pagination? or to disable some DWM functions? and why can't we disable these rounded borders? it's like windows xp without xp. on the other hand automatic updates it's the worse thing you can put on an OS ... Windows was the best OS, I don't know what it will be if they don't allow us to -at least- disable windows update. It's like Vista again but now we have a very fast hardware: even the slower disk (Hdd) is running on a SATA3 port. So... do you really think windows 98 flies on Pentium 150 or Pentium III 1000 Mhz and current windows versions on modern hardware are slow ? once tweaked, w11 feels like w8.1 RTM when appeared but in nowadays hardware. Do you know what I mean? before the tweaks it's like Windows Vista SP0 on hardware designed for XP so how it feels before tweaked? well it's like having 2 GB of Ram and HDD again and installing vista sp0 on it...

Not all w10 versions are crap. You can run 10064 / 10074 and get a decent experience. These versions are more like 8.1 than 10 rtm and you can have GPU and Touchpad drivers for modern hardware (WDDM 2.0 in early stage) The only thing I hate is the empty icons on taskbar when I apply w7/w8 theme with StartIsBack++ but this is only a personal appreciation. Of course these builds aren't for everyone... If you can help me fixing the empty icons on taskbar, these will be the perfect windows versions right now, at least for modern hardware without support for w7 and w8

Update about FASTEST Windows 10 builds for normal hardware / Fanless devices / NUCS / Lowend hardware (max speed and the less LAG you can get without a dedicated graphic card; yes, running Intel Graphics ) : What I say about 1507 and 1607 it's not 100% true. Best version (after 10074) it's probably 1511 (10586), it's an improved version of the previous w10 version (10240). It doesn't update WDDM to 2.1, instead of it improves wddm 2.0 and memory management. At the end you get better disk usage and smooth GUI with less lag. How can you choose the perfect W10 version for lowend hardware? Use the XP era thinking when Windows 2003 appears. You could say "it has no sense to use one build or another if the Windows Server version has the same kernel version nowadays" This is the starting point In other words, fastest w10 Workstation editions shares the kernel version with the Windows Server edition. So now I can really understand why 10074 and 10586 are faster builds than 10240 (and also 1607 (14393), but it's the first one I started to hate because it has metro more integrated and lot of new things). Kernel version 10.0.X and Server build equivalence 10074 = Server 2016 Technical Preview 2 ( ¿Windows 8.2? ) 10240 = NO SERVER VERSION ONLY WORKSTATION RTM ( slow + lot of hdd usage in RTM ) Threshold 1 10514 = Server 2016 Technical Preview 3 ( I didn't tried this build but as you can see this server build is really close to 10586 TP4 ) 10586 = Server 2016 Technical Preview 4 ( Windows 10 November update Workstation kernel version ¿Windows 8.2 SP1: Service Pack 1? ) Threshold 2 14393 = Server 2016 RTM build ( After this one, all builds are pure Windows 10. You won't get Windows 7 / 8 / 8.1 experience anymore. In other words, starting with 1607 14939 builds are a little heavy for HDDs. 1607 it's not bad but some classic windows shell is removed, metro is more integrated, windows updates can't be controled as easy as in RTM and November update (10240-10586), WDDM version changed to 2.1 in this build so.. more things introduced ) WARNING To get the best speed of your CPU, make sure you have Disabled Meltdown and Spectre (these cpu protections are intended for servers running windows) _ttps://www.grc.com/inspectre.htm AND ALSO: If you want to get fast speed on every build starting with 1607 make sure you have Control Flow Guard disabled too (kernel 14393) ___ Another interesting script I recommend which really make a difference: Remove-Windows10-Bloat.bat by matthewjberger https://gist.github.com/matthewjberger/2f4295887d6cb5738fa34e597f457b7f ___ And also, what REALLY makes a difference it's DWS (Destroy Windows Spying) utility ___ + Windows Defender & Cortana disabled of course. ___ Get rid of Metro UI: rename c:\windows\system32\windows.immersiveshell.serviceprovider.dll to anything else and restart explorer.exe NOTE: All this information is based on a personal appreciation after I tried Windows 10 different versions on 4 different hardware configurations and compared the experience to the same hw running w7,w8 and w8.1

Ok, I'm only showing what you can do these days when you can't get the hardware recognized and working (with all drivers) because you can't downgrade to w7 6.1.7601, w8 6.2.9200 or w8.1 6.3.9600, for example. For some people only. Less hdd read/write so less i/o activity. I'm not telling it's better to have it on or to have it off. It depends on your RAM since it does memory compression when enabled. It's only one of all the things that me and probably all other advanced users here and there have tried to obtain the same desktop experience in w10 that we have had on w8.1 but sadly without lucky. _____ I always thought the same regarding to basic hardware and OSes: If it is slow with the Windows OS it has installed by default, try to get the previous version. Previous windows version always fly. There are some exceptions of course. But in Vista days I installed XP on every Vista laptop/pc and you always get a decent hardware and desktop experience to work with. Now it's the same story as in Vista days; w10 is slow as Vista SP0. If your laptop/pc comes with w10 and you CAN install 7, 8.0 or 8.1 you have a very fast OS (Vista SP2 is as fast as Windows 7 but most people don't know because doesn't have popularity). But if you need to loose time and time and time and time and can't get GPU acceleration working, touchpad working.. or something similar.. it's not viable to have w7/w8/w81 installed since you can get the 100% of the hardware juice. In this case, in my opinion, stay with w10 RTM 1507 ltsb or 1607 ltsb but it's laggy although tweaked as much as you can. I always look at Windows Display Driver Model in every Windows version. Currently there are 2 or maybe 3 eras in terms of computing, windows and resource usaging. You can identify which Windows version is the best for you depending on your hardware. Since w8.1 you need some modern hardware because it requires more resources to do the same. But basically: In terms of GPU resource usage for basic hardware: 1) from XP --- to 8.0 (best desktop experience) XPDDM to WDDM 1.2 if you machine comes with Vista SP0 you can install XP and get a decent experience. You can also install w7 or w8.0 since I have done it and it works nice too. If you want the best memory management in old hardware and you have WDDM compatible GPU, install w8.0 2) 8.1 ( needs more gpu and metro it's more integrated than in w8.0, coincidence? ) WDDM 1.3 you can install w8.0 on a machine coming with w8.1 and you will aways get a smoother OS and less resource usaging 3) 10 ( need at least hardware that can run 8.1 but it's not enough ) WDDM 2.0+ here we are in Vista era again, but XP is not supported on modern hardware anymore, so the way it's a little different but almost the same: install previous OS version if you can. w8.1 run fine if the hardware comes with w10. But if you can't get all devices working on it you need to research for something like what I explain in the first post here. In terms of Memory usage: w8.1 and w10 are the best. w10 does it better than w8.1 since introduces memory compression and other things. It's the only thing I really like and apreciate of w10 in basic hardware. __________________________ Why I always prefer w8.0 and not w7 sp1 ?? _ttps://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/b8/2011/10/07/reducing-runtime-memory-in-windows-8 w7 memory usage: _ttps://msdnshared.blob.core.windows.net/media/MSDNBlogsFS/prod.evol.blogs.msdn.com/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/00/00/01/29/43/metablogapi/8270.Figure-1---Memory-usage-in-Windows-7-SP1_thumb_30B5D3F2.png w8 memory usage: _ttps://msdnshared.blob.core.windows.net/media/MSDNBlogsFS/prod.evol.blogs.msdn.com/CommunityServer.Blogs.Components.WeblogFiles/00/00/01/29/43/metablogapi/0172.Figure-2---Memory-usage-in-Windows-8_thumb_3049A0FD.png ___________________________ Coming back again to the topic and in my opinion: All w10 beta (pre-RTM 10240) versions are interesting w8 versions. Most, if not all of them, are very stable OSes.