@xper Where are the most recent comments posted here in this (https://msfn.org/board/topic/187835-my-browser-builds-part-6/page/7/#comment-1289221) thread since Monday? And for your information, since your software update, MSFN has been completely broken in all of @roytam1 ’s browsers. There doesn’t seem to be a fallback mode when it comes to a bit older browsers, especially non-Chrome browsers like Pale Moon/New Moon which have been working fine on MSFN for years.

59 minutes ago, AstroSkipper said:

@xper Where are the most recent comments posted here in this thread since Monday?

https://msfn.org/board/topic/187862-server-forum-upgrade/

There doesn’t seem to be a fallback mode when it comes to a bit older browsers, especially non-Chrome browsers like Pale Moon/New Moon which have been working fine on MSFN for years.

What do you expect me to do? Because of old software, I had terrible problems with the server. Surely you don't expect me to develop compatibility for Pale Moon or any other browser? The development of the forum software is not in my hands. End of story. Period.

17 minutes ago, xper said:

What do you expect me to do? Because of old software, I had terrible problems with the server.

Pale Moon and New Moon 28 are not old software. And they have nothing to do with your server problems. It’s more likely the thousands of bot accounts that you still haven’t deleted and which are growing in number every few hours. But I’m not keen on repeating myself all the time.

23 minutes ago, xper said:

Surely you don't expect me to develop compatibility for Pale Moon or any other browser? The development of the forum software is not in my hands.

You do not have to develop anything. Rather look here https://github.com/Feodor2/Mypal68/issues/733#issuecomment-5380000877:

While there's a missing feature in mypal you can try contacting the MSFN staff to fix it on their side:

Proper fix (site-side, worth reporting to MSFN staff)
IPS's theme needs, inside the existing fallback @supports, a polyfill-safe duplicate of the
dead rule — escaped class instead of the pseudo-class, plus set --_anchor-v-fixed on open
(they already set it on close) so position:fixed is also scroll-correct:

@supports not selector(:popover-open) {
  i-navigation-menu:defined .ipsNavBar > li > .ipsNav__dropdown {
    position: fixed; left: 0;
    top: var(--_anchor-v-fixed, var(--_anchor-v));
  }
}

…mirroring the rule they already ship for generic i-dropdown elements.

Edited August 23Aug 23 by AstroSkipper

Invision Community Dropped Legacy Engine Support

Modern versions of Invision Community (especially Invision 4.x and the newest Invision 5 infrastructure) are heavily built on modern JavaScript frameworks, CSS grid variants, and Progressive Web App (PWA) components.

• Pale Moon uses the Goanna engine (a legacy fork of Mozilla's older Gecko engine).

• Because Pale Moon does not natively compute or follow modern JavaScript ECMAScript standards at the same pace as Chromium or standard Firefox, interactive features on your forum will completely shatter.

• Features like the text editor box, notification drops, AJAX content loading, and login popups will continuously throw errors or appear blank to Pale Moon
  
  Running an Invision Community forum while catering to users on legacy or non-standard browsers like Pale Moon creates an impossible web development conflict.

  You should treat Pale Moon issues as an unfixable, client-side problem rather than something you need to resolve on your server.
  
  Turning features off on server to cater to one or two Pale Moon users strips security and optimization benefits away from the 99% of your community navigating via Chrome, Safari, or Firefox.
  
  I don't have time for arguing. End of discussion. You don't like it? You have other forums.

This is going to be one of those unfortunate things where despite MSFN focusing not only on modern versions of Windows, but also legacy versions of Windows, we cannot always keep the forums accessible to legacy Windows and browsers. Your mileage may vary, but as the web evolves and security holes are found, we need to keep up with those new standards and fixes.

This is going to be more of what Invision supports, rather than xper. He can only do so much to keep the forums functional, but also safe. The web is a much different place than when I joined the forum 16 years ago and with attackers becoming more sophisticated, along with the use of AI, it's imperative to keep everything up to date. While Pale Moon is still being developed, it's still legacy enough where the developers will need to make changes to the underlying engine or more sites are just going to start breaking as the years go on. As much as many don't like it, progress doesn't stop, it's just a fact of life unfortunately.

MSFN is widely known and appreciated as a retro forum. Although modern operating systems are discussed here to some extent, the main focus is on older operating systems and, in particular, browsers that are compatible with them. That is why most people visit this forum. Here is a brief overview of the breakdown of posts on this forum:

MSFN Subforum

Windows version	Number of posts
Windows 11	1.3k
Windows 10	14.4k
Windows 8	10.7k
Windows 7	20.5k
Windows Server	3.3k
Windows XP/Vista/2000/2003/NT4	211.2k
Windows 9x/ME	89.6k

Edited August 25Aug 25 by AstroSkipper

@AstroSkipper The only solution to make this forum backwards compatible-friendly is to migrate forum software to something like phpBB, but considering this forum started with Invision from the start, the chances of that happening are very slim, because migrating and converting years of data to work with other software isn't a 1 day job, if it's even possible in the first place...

7 minutes ago, NojusK said:

@AstroSkipper The only solution to make this forum backwards compatible-friendly is to migrate forum software to something like phpBB, but considering this forum started with Invision from the start, the chances of that happening are very slim, because migrating and converting years of data to work with other software isn't a 1 day job, if it's even possible in the first place...

I've researched this thoroughly and it's impossible.

@xper

AWESOME work in the upgrades!

Here is one thing that may need looked into.

I bookmark this for MSFN - https://msfn.org/board/discover/

And almost always load as a BACKGROUND TAB that is not active until I activate that tab.

So it loads in the background until I am ready to start reading that tab.

But... Doing that now has that background tab redirecting itself several times.

It ends up timing out with an error and the URL that it times out on looks like this:

https://msfn.org/board/board/board/board/board/board/board/board/board/board/board/board/board/board/board/board/board/discover/

6 minutes ago, NotHereToPlayGames said:

@xper

AWESOME work in the upgrades!

Here is one thing that may need looked into.

I bookmark this for MSFN - https://msfn.org/board/discover/

And almost always load as a BACKGROUND TAB that is not active until I activate that tab.

So it loads in the background until I am ready to start reading that tab.

But... Doing that now has that background tab redirecting itself several times.

It ends up timing out with an error and the URL that it times out on looks like this:

https://msfn.org/board/board/board/board/board/board/board/board/board/board/board/board/board/board/board/board/board/discover/

Refresh and clear your browser cache. Important.

Already clear browser cache (it clears each and every time the browser closes).

The board/board/board/board/board/ isn't "every" time. I seem to have to wait several hours before it does it again.

I think (but do not have a way of proving) that it is a Cloudflare gate block.

I pass the Cloudflare process, but it sends me to board/board/.

Which fails, so it tries again, this time sending me to board/board/board/.

Which fails again, so it tries sending me to board/board/board/board/.

This keeps failing until it reaches the max number of retries.

Cloudflare is disabled for now. I had issues with the SSL Cert and Cloudflare. Maybe the new NS haven't fully propagated yet. Wait at least another 12 hours and then let me know.

6 hours ago, xper said:

Cloudflare is disabled for now. I had issues with the SSL Cert and Cloudflare. Maybe the new NS haven't fully propagated yet. Wait at least another 12 hours and then let me know.

Everything is working great. Probably was just NS propagation.

AstroSkipper said:

"MSFN is widely known and appreciated as a retro forum."

"That is why most people visit this forum."

Windows 11 1.3k

Windows XP/Vista/2000/2003/NT4 211.2k

-------------------------------------------------------------------

xper said:

"I don't have time for arguing. End of discussion. You don't like it? You have other forums. "

Hello xper,

the numbers of posts AstroSkipper quotes speak for themselves.

Your rude answer is reminiscent of a Contract Killer (paid by M$ ??) !

I'm posting this from Pale Moon right now, yes the site background is just white and there are visual glitches, but still it's usable.

The issues are most likely caused by Invision bloat, but as we've seed running while unmaintained software on the client side may be fine on the server it's not, the recent hack situation was much worse than these visual glitches.

So if you have some time and want to do something, write to Invision about their software being bad with compatibility, the argument here is pointless

Pale Moon devs should also be concerned about these issues, cause it won't be just about MSFN but in all of the modern Invision forum boards and other websites so they'll have to add those missing CSS/JS features sooner or later to stay relevant no matter how pointless their existence is. And they will eventually.

I've suggested phpBB as an option earlier, but if changing forum software is not feasible like MSFN staff said back then, than realistically this can only be fixed by Invision and Pale Moon devs.