TRIM for XP

[j7n]

Can O&O Defrag trim a regular SATA disk under WinXP?

[AstroSkipper]

13 hours ago, j7n said:

Can O&O Defrag trim a regular SATA disk under WinXP?

What do you mean by a regular SATA disk?  O&O Defrag can execute the TRIM command only on SSD devices, and only if these are supported, of course. HDDs connected via SATA or IDE (PATA) can only be defragmented, logically.

Edited October 8, 2023 by AstroSkipper

[j7n]

I meant a common SSD with a SATA cable and a standard driver, not the special Stchrom driver.

[AstroSkipper]

5 hours ago, j7n said:

I meant a common SSD with a SATA cable and a standard driver, not the special Stchrom driver.

Yep! That should work. 

[Dixel]

Isn't TRIM is now handled by these devices themselves? I have a combo HDD/SSD and HDD monitoring software says TRIM is handled by the device.

[AstroSkipper]

31 minutes ago, Dixel said:

Isn't TRIM is now handled by these devices themselves? I have a combo HDD/SSD and HDD monitoring software says TRIM is handled by the device.

This probably depends on the age of the SSD and the electronics installed.

[reboot12]

On 10/6/2023 at 8:44 PM, Dietmar said:

Under win10 I use TRIM. Before I set up this jason file from Trimcheck.

But after TRIM via Win10, Trimcheck still tells, that no TRIM has been done on this disk.

I see that you don't understand how Trimcheck works. First of all, you need to launch a program from a partition on an SSD/NVME disk that you want to test. If you run the program, e.g. from a pendrive, it doesn't make sense and nothing will test!

• the first launch of the program is created by the trimcheck.bin file (probably always 64MB with random data)
• copies the first 16 KB of data from the trimcheck.bin file to the .json text file in which he also saves data on the location of the trimcheck.bin file (offset e.g. 21018939392)
• removes the trimcheck.bin file from the disk and informs to do TRIM now
• now we are doing TRIM, e.g. in O&O
• now we run Trimcheck again from the same location as before (where the .json file was created)
• Trimcheck compares the data from the .json file with data in disk offset 21018939392
  If there are only zeros there, it means that TRIM operation in O&O has worked, but if you are there, the same data from the .json file, it means that TRIM operation in O&O did not work

In general, instead of using Trimcheck, you can check it manually:

• make or copy file (a few megabytes) on partition on NVMe disk
• in Hex Editor check location (offset or sector) this file - save this information somewhere e.g. Notepad or on a piece of paper
• delete file from disk use Shift key to not remove to Windows Recycle Bin
• run TRIM in O&O on partition where there was a deleted file
• run Hex Editor and check if starting from the sector you wrote on a piece of paper are only zeros

If zeros - TRIM it worked
If any data - TRIM it did not work

Edited October 19, 2023 by reboot12

[genieautravail]

@Dietmar

With Samsung Magician, trimming a drive only works when a certain threshold of deleted files is reached.

Playing a little with the drive by copying and deleting files can be a good idea before checking if trim works or not.

Regards

[reboot12]

@genieautravail

I have a NVMe 970 disk like the author of the topic. Version of the Samsung Magician tool supporting this disk does not work on WinXP, while older versions work on WinXP but do not support this disk.

Of course, there are many programs for SSDs, but not to NVMe. O&O this is probably a unique tool that supports TRIM on NVMe disks at WinXP.

Edited October 21, 2023 by reboot12

[genieautravail]

23 hours ago, reboot12 said:

have a NVMe 970 disk like the author of the topic. Version of the Samsung Magician tool supporting this disk does not work on WinXP, while older versions work on WinXP but do not support this disk.

My post wasn't specifically about Samsung Magician, it was just an example of how works a tool like this.

Regards

[Dietmar]

Hi,

I make a test of working TRIM via O-O defrag tool on XP SP3.

For this, I zeroed all out of the Samsung 960 Pro 500 Gbyte nvme disk.

During out zeroeing speed goes down as much as possible, slower than a harddisk.

Then I run 2 time O-O defrag TRIM under XP SP3 on it. All was yellow before and all was yellow after.

O-O defrag ends without error.

With Crystal Diskmark 5.1.2 you can see, that for the Seq read, write, speed was still about 500 Mb/s.

Then I trim this 960 Pro with Win10.

And voila, speed for the Seq read, write goes up to 1551 Mb/s.

So, I am to 100% sure, that TRIM via O-O defrag does not work on this Samsung 960Pro.

TRIM via Win10 works. So, this is congruent with all my test before belonging to the O-O defrag tool.

It is just a fake tool for TRIM running under XP SP3

Dietmar

Edited October 31, 2023 by Dietmar

[reboot12]

@Dietmar

You are doing everything wrong - this is not a TRIM test.

TRIM works only in the file system - e.g. NTFS in cooperation with the operating system (e.g. Win10) or O&O tool in WinXP if the file creation/delete operation has been taken:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trim_(computing)#Operating_system_support

If you make zeros the disk, there is no file system and there is nothing to test! Win10 while deleting file (from Recycle Bin) writes somewhere information about the area where the file was deleted and immediately sends TRIM command to the disk firmware that TRIM performs, i.e. zero this area. On WinXP O&O works in the background and when the file is removed (from Recycle Bin) it saves somewhere information in which sectors was the file. Only when you click TRIM, it sends a command to the disk firmware to make a TRIM in this designated area and zero it.

On 11/1/2023 at 12:22 AM, Dietmar said:

Then I trim this 960 Pro with Win10.

I don't understand what it means that you did a trim in win10 ??? On a zeroed disk ???

To do a TRIM you need to perform some operation on a files, e.g. copy or make file on NTFS partition then delete it. TRIM does not work on an empty (zeroed) disk where there is no file system!

Edited November 2, 2023 by reboot12

[Dietmar]

Hi,

I test without zeroring out, with small file and delete, with BIG file and delete.

Result is always the same:

NO Trim with the O-Odefrag tool on XP SP3

Dietmar

 

[j7n]

A defrag program working in the background doesn't make much sense. You only run it when a disk requires maintenance. What I'd expect it to do is the following: block the system from writing to the disk, collect all free space by interpreting the file system, tell the disk that it is free, unblock the system. Alternatively it could work by not blocking the system but by creating a big file that fills all the free space (whatever is considered free by the OS), and collect a list of clusters belonging to this file. If it can succssfully defrag, it should be able to work with the file system on a low level anyway. Keeping track of all deleted files is too complex and could cause errors if it erased space that where a new file had already been created.

[Rod Steel]

On 10/9/2023 at 6:34 PM, Dixel said:

Isn't TRIM is now handled by these devices themselves?

No, SSD can not fully TRIM itself cause it does not fully know what data should be deleted and what stored. Samsung once tested File System Aware Garbage Collection - prototype SSD that can theoretically fully TRIM itself, but it does not worked as they expected.