US government gives TikTok an ultimatum

[Dixel]

7 hours ago, Vistapocalypse said:

My apologies for bumping this topic, but it has come to my attention that India has banned TikTok along with many other Chinese apps, ostensibly to protect the personal data of its citizens - although the policy evidently began after a deadly border clash with Chinese forces in June 2020:

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-53225720

That link is only one among many and I have certainly not read them all, but India’s list of banned Chinese apps has subsequently grown from dozens to hundreds. 

I certainly do not wish to start an argument, but this does raise difficult questions about proper forum conduct. As an MSFN member, should I show my solidarity with the “world’s largest democracy” (not to mention the fairly large democracy I was born in) by discouraging the use of TikTok, and perhaps even all Chinese software? Would this not contradict the free-speech position I have taken with respect to Kaspersky (which is a Russian company in case someone still doesn’t know that)?  Might it be considered racist to even point out the Chinese origins of software? (If so, then I might be guilty - a rare occasion when my chief antagonist expressed approval for one of my posts.) Might it be considered racist to attach greater weight to software bans by Western governments than to software bans by the government of India? 🤔

The wisdom of avoiding all political topics here is becoming increasingly clear to me. Have a nice day. 

TikTok comes in two flavours, Android and iOS, I wonder which version of Kaspersky you run on your iOS/iPhone.

[Vistapocalypse]

As an MSFN member, one thing I would never do is create multiple accounts in order to harass other members and give myself false “reputation.” 

I’m sure that India’s immense oil purchases are of infinitely greater assistance to Russia than e.g. an XP user choosing to use a legacy version of Kaspersky because it is his best remaining option. (For the record, my advice for users of Windows 10 and 11 is simply to use Microsoft’s built-in protection and completely forget about third-party antivirus products.) Nevertheless, I thought India’s ban of hundreds of Chinese apps might be thought-provoking, but perhaps I overestimated the “new” MSFN.

[D.Draker]

On 8/6/2023 at 5:49 PM, Vistapocalypse said:

free-speech

Why would those, who don't have free-speech at home, be given free-speech at the international arena?
More of a rhetorical question.

[Vistapocalypse]

I chose to ignore my Ignored Users list and take a peek at your post, and was pleasantly surprised to find that it wasn’t calculated to offend me!?? As an MSFN member, there is little I can do about the lack of basic freedoms in China or Russia. The “free-speech” I was referring to was speech right here at MSFN. 

On June 2 an MSFN member with an actual Russian flag directed a question     about Kaspersky to the only member who has reported success with it (or indeed with any real-time antivirus) on Vista x64 with extended kernel, and neither member was harassed by the usual suspects, which is highly commendable! Evidently it is not Russians who must be harassed for daring to mention Kaspersky here, but only an American such as myself who doesn’t show the proper respect for government warnings?

Here in the USA, cigarette packs have featured government warnings for perhaps half a century, but I still smoke. Every road has a posted speed limit, but I still drive somewhat faster than that (albeit not nearly as fast as I drove in my youth).

It seems to me that Kaspersky’s critics don’t show the proper respect for test results by independent labs such as AV Test in Germany, where Kaspersky has long been a top product. Everything else seems anecdotal to me. Let me remind you that NATO is not at war (and if we ever are, may God help us).

[D.Draker]

9 hours ago, Vistapocalypse said:

I chose to ignore my Ignored Users list and take a peek at your post, and was pleasantly surprised to find that it wasn’t calculated to offend me!?? As an MSFN member, there is little I can do about the lack of basic freedoms in China or Russia. The “free-speech” I was referring to was speech right here at MSFN. 

On June 2 an MSFN member with an actual Russian flag directed a question     about Kaspersky to the only member who has reported success with it (or indeed with any real-time antivirus) on Vista x64 with extended kernel, and neither member was harassed by the usual suspects, which is highly commendable! Evidently it is not Russians who must be harassed for daring to mention Kaspersky here, but only an American such as myself who doesn’t show the proper respect for government warnings?

Here in the USA, cigarette packs have featured government warnings for perhaps half a century, but I still smoke. Every road has a posted speed limit, but I still drive somewhat faster than that (albeit not nearly as fast as I drove in my youth).

It seems to me that Kaspersky’s critics don’t show the proper respect for test results by independent labs such as AV Test in Germany, where Kaspersky has long been a top product. Everything else seems anecdotal to me. Let me remind you that NATO is not at war (and if we ever are, may God help us). *

What "free-speech" can be given for the developers of software that wear foreign, hostile nation uniforms?  Be it Russian KGB Kaspersky, be it China military TikTok, India will do just fine without someone deciding for them, they know better how to protect themselves.  

I never insulted you, not a single time. You, on the other hand, insulted me many times, and it was based on my nationality/country/lifestyle. According to you, It's OK to insult the French, but very "racist" to not use your Russia software you shove down our throats. Here we see your usual double standards. But when people point out them to you, you feel "insulted". I returned from holidays, I expected they calmed you down a bit, but no! It's the same old you, on your usual old track, with the same provocative behaviour! In my opinion, you're very toxic for this forum. Nevertheless, I'm still waiting you ask me for forgiveness. 

The collection of screenshots/posts with your racial slurs and insults are at your disposal anytime. 

I understand it might be in your job description, but * neither MSFN is the place for scaring Western citizens, nor is the place for discussing wars. Please stop.

[Vistapocalypse]

On 8/6/2023 at 12:49 PM, Vistapocalypse said:

...India has banned TikTok along with many other Chinese apps, ostensibly to protect the personal data of its citizens - although the policy evidently began after a deadly border clash with Chinese forces in June 2020:

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-53225720

That link is only one among many and I have certainly not read them all, but India’s list of banned Chinese apps has subsequently grown from dozens to hundreds...

Here’s a critical analysis of India’s app bans from Atlantic Council that I am inclined to agree with:

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/southasiasource/the-problem-with-indias-app-bans/

[D.Draker]

"TikTok has been accused of aggressive data harvesting."

"The warnings follow a report by Australian-US cybersecurity firm Internet 2.0, which found the most popular social media app of the year collects “excessive” amounts of information from its users."

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jul/19/tiktok-has-been-accused-of-aggressive-data-harvesting-is-your-information-at-risk

https://internet2-0.com/its-their-word-against-their-source-code-new-report-on-tiktok/

[Vistapocalypse]

Since MSFN’s membership is largely European, there is one thing that I should clarify: Do not jump to the conclusion that these government warnings about TikTok are having very much effect in the United States! I can hardly watch a talk show on TV without some celebrity mentioning their TikTok account! (It seems to me that Europeans take government warnings far more seriously than Americans do.) Anyway, it looks like TikTok is here to stay, for better or for worse (at least until the next fad comes along). 

[nowse]

TikTok can be a fun app, but it's also important to be aware of privacy and security concerns. That Popular Science article gives a good rundown of the pros and cons.

[Vistapocalypse]

U.S. House of Representatives passes TikTok Bill

TikTok is back in the news here in the United States. The bill passed by the House would ban TikTok if Chinese parent company ByteDance does not sell the company within 6 months. President Biden has indicated he is willing to sign the bill (even though his re-election campaign has a TikTok account), but first the bill would have to pass the U.S. Senate.

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/tiktok-ban-bill-house-vote-03-13-24/index.html

[Vistapocalypse]

On 3/13/2024 at 10:52 PM, Vistapocalypse said:

U.S. House of Representatives passes TikTok Bill

...The bill passed by the House would ban TikTok if Chinese parent company ByteDance does not sell the company within 6 months. President Biden has indicated he is willing to sign the bill (even though his re-election campaign has a TikTok account), but first the bill would have to pass the U.S. Senate.

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/tiktok-ban-bill-house-vote-03-13-24/index.html

Statements such as “TikTok is actually getting banned in the US” (the title of a March 20 post) are quite premature. The bill passed by the House was just another ultimatum (sell TikTok within the specified time or else we will ban the app), and cannot become law unless it is also passed by the Senate. If the Senate fails to act this year, we might have a different president who says he is opposed to the TikTok bill.

The latest news here in the U.S. is that the Federal Trade Commission has been investigating TikTok:

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/26/biden-administration-tiktok-data-practices-00149139

A link in that article reports that the European Union is also investigating TikTok:

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-goes-after-tiktok-over-addictive-design-minors-protections/

As I pointed out above several months ago, India has already banned TikTok and many other Chinese apps.

[ZortMcGort11]

I'm not an expert, but it seems hypocritical of China to complain about America banning Tiktok, when the Chinese Communist Party bans Google and Meta from being used by Chinese netizens. So from my point of view, as an exhausted, tired, cynical, nearly apathetic American, is I'd rather NOT have Chinese companies running their biased algorithms (in order to destabilize my country) on platforms used by Americans. In fact, I'd rather we just ban EVERYTHING Chinese altogether, including all their spies crossing our borders illegally. The entire reason of existence for the CCP is to control and censor information to make themselves look better and everybody else look worse. So no, I don't think we should allow some Chinese companies FREEDOM to espouse their anti-American and anti-Western views inside our own countries. We aren't allowed to post anti-Chinese new stories and articles inside China, are we? Just because we live in a democracy, doesn't mean our flow of information has to be for sale to the highest bidder, there still has to be some morals and principles related to freedom of speech. And letting some communists, and America-haters run the algorithms that control what stories and news articles are trending, doesn't bode well for the future of a stable, democratic society. These are the same Chinese rulers who tell Hollywood which scenes and dialogue are to be erased from movies before they can be seen in China. These are the same Chinese rulers who teach their school children to hate Japanese people and to hate Americans for existing, and because they have some arrogant, "century of humiliation" grievances in their deluded minds. For example, they erased the statue of Liberty from the most recent Spider-man film.  What a bunch of cowards, is all I can say. Why don't we just make movies, software, and hardware for Americans and like-minded democratic allies? In my opinion we should COMPLETELY de-couple from China, and Russia. But that's just my two cents.

I'll just put it even more simply and bluntly..... they (Russia and China) hate the Western world, so I dislike them back..... they have no business in our open societies. All they want to do is undermine our cultures and destroy us. So, I'm going to vote with my wallet, and not buy anything Chinese or Russian. I don't support Chinese and Russian fascism.

Edited June 29, 2024 by ZortMcGort11

[D.Draker]

"TikTok Preparing for US Shut-Off on Sunday"

https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2025-01-14/tiktok-preparing-for-us-shut-off-on-sunday-the-information-reports

[Rod Steel]

14 hours ago, D.Draker said:

"TikTok Preparing for US Shut-Off on Sunday"

Let's all hope it will happen. I hope EU will follow. I heard that ruzzkies and chinese run wild this thing in Romania and create a chaos there. I don't understand this "magic" of short vertical videos where cringe teenagers carefully selected by CCP algorithm tell you what to do and for whom you should vote. Let's send this CCP teens to trash-been of history!

[NotHereToPlayGames]

I am not TikTok fan.  Or Instagram or Facebook or X or *anything* classified as "social".

But this "ban" is USELESS.  Why?  Because everybody that uses it DOES NOT CARE about "privacy rights" and don't beleive that they (the users) are being manipulated like puppets, indoctrinated, mind control, whatever label you want to give it.

Most have just moved on to Red Note which I predict will become FAR more "popular" than TikTok ever was.  Tell a kid not to touch the cookies because they just came out of the oven and they are hot, they WILL touch it and get burned.

People on TikTok DO NOT CARE about "privacy rights".

Same goes for Instagram.

Same goes for Facebook.

Same goes for X.

You name it.

We have peope here at MSFN that tend to be even on the paranoid spectrum of privacy, yet they have Insagram or Facebook or X accounts.

Adults sell their souls every day and claim one thing while do another.

Do we really think "teens" on TikTok are any different?  They learn from us, afterall.  And if "privacy" was really an issue, Facebook would have died out two decades ago.