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Windows XP is still king


Dibya
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Point taken, but just because YOU customize an older OS doesn't mean a lot of people do.  What percentage of the remaining 8.6% of Windows systems out there running XP do you think are being run by tweakers/customizers like you, Dibya, vs. old, dusty XP systems still running in doctors' offices and such?

While what you say may be true of some exploits, I covered that when I said that malware writers target the systems with the largest distributions. 

But there are still other malware packages that are not system-specific.  For example, if you subscribe to the "run things at user privilege level instead of system" (i.e., you think UAC has merit) pretty much any download that spreads socially and gets a user to install a malicious payload when run As Administrator could be even more likely to cause a fault on a system that doesn't provide a UAC prompt.

Those of us in-the-know about operating systems and malware just don't get infections no matter what system we're running...  Why?  Because we're smart and tend not to be irresponsible in our computing habits.  That alone protects probably most of the people in this debate and on this site from malware - so what we're really talking about here are the chances that people who aren't knowledgeable or responsible will be infected.

I'll wager that each and every one of us having this conversation here both does uncommon things to protect our systems and has an uncommon system configuration.  Dibya, your highly augmented/tweaked/modified XP is no more an out-of-box XP than my augmented/tweaked/modified Windows 8.1 system, so neither of us can really say "XP is better than Win 8.1" or vice versa, because we're speaking about something different from XP or Win 8.1 that pretty much anyone else would see.  You have your reasons, and I have mine, and in the end the systems accomplish two different goals - spectacularly well!

So it boils down to the fact that we've each chosen a kernel on which to build our ideal systems, and none of them are anything like what the general public gets when they install Windows as delivered by Microsoft.

What's funny is that I'll wager we've tweaked our systems to be more similar to one another than to what Microsoft delivered.

-Noel

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7 hours ago, Dibya said:

MY two pc running with no AV still connected to internet still there is no malware.

You're proving my point.

I did a lot of customization of XP too, back in the day.  Today my Win 8.1 workstation is also fully connected to the internet, is used online every day all day, is running on its first install, which I did in October of 2013, and I haven't run an active AV system on it in years.  The only thing done are daily MalwareBytes AntiMalware scans that never turn up anything.

Spoiler

Malwarebytes
www.malwarebytes.com

-Log Details-
Scan Date: 12/29/16
Scan Time: 8:15 AM
Logfile: DailyScanReport.txt
Administrator: Yes

-Software Information-
Version: 3.0.4.1269
Components Version: 1.0.39
Update Package Version: 1.0.886
License: Free

-System Information-
OS: Windows 8.1
CPU: x64
File System: NTFS
User: NoelC4\xxxx

-Scan Summary-
Scan Type: Threat Scan
Result: Completed
Objects Scanned: 532490
Time Elapsed: 8 min, 12 sec

-Scan Options-
Memory: Enabled
Startup: Enabled
Filesystem: Enabled
Archives: Enabled
Rootkits: Enabled
Heuristics: Enabled
PUP: Disabled
PUM: Disabled

-Scan Details-
Process: 0
(No malicious items detected)

Module: 0
(No malicious items detected)

Registry Key: 0
(No malicious items detected)

Registry Value: 0
(No malicious items detected)

Data Stream: 0
(No malicious items detected)

Folder: 0
(No malicious items detected)

File: 0
(No malicious items detected)

Physical Sector: 0
(No malicious items detected)


(end)

Likewise, my Win 7 server hasn't detected malware ever since I brought it online almost 2 years ago.

So what?  We have both achieved several systems that are fully secure from malware incursions, using three different versions of Windows.  We've proven it can be done.  But we're not the ones to worry about in conversations about general security.  It's the "dummy" crowd - the general public - who define how "secure" an operating system is, in modern terms.

Frankly, Microsoft has NEVER delivered a well-configured, tight, secure system out of the box.  They optimize for glitzy ad revenue.  Who in their right mind didn't see abuse coming when ActiveX first came out?

But back to the point:  We respect the Windows versions we base our customizations on because they could be turned into something better.  We have both done so (with knowledge, effort, and time that the general public doesn't have).  Where Microsoft falls down on the job now is that they're actively trying to block our kind of customization activity.  This is why they fail.

-Noel

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7 minutes ago, NoelC said:

You're proving my point.

I did a lot of customization of XP too, back in the day.  Today my Win 8.1 workstation is also fully connected to the internet, is used online every day all day, is running on its first install, which I did in October of 2013, and I haven't run an active AV system on it in years.  The only thing done are daily MalwareBytes AntiMalware scans that never turn up anything.

  Reveal hidden contents


Malwarebytes
www.malwarebytes.com

-Log Details-
Scan Date: 12/29/16
Scan Time: 8:15 AM
Logfile: DailyScanReport.txt
Administrator: Yes

-Software Information-
Version: 3.0.4.1269
Components Version: 1.0.39
Update Package Version: 1.0.886
License: Free

-System Information-
OS: Windows 8.1
CPU: x64
File System: NTFS
User: NoelC4\xxxx

-Scan Summary-
Scan Type: Threat Scan
Result: Completed
Objects Scanned: 532490
Time Elapsed: 8 min, 12 sec

-Scan Options-
Memory: Enabled
Startup: Enabled
Filesystem: Enabled
Archives: Enabled
Rootkits: Enabled
Heuristics: Enabled
PUP: Disabled
PUM: Disabled

-Scan Details-
Process: 0
(No malicious items detected)

Module: 0
(No malicious items detected)

Registry Key: 0
(No malicious items detected)

Registry Value: 0
(No malicious items detected)

Data Stream: 0
(No malicious items detected)

Folder: 0
(No malicious items detected)

File: 0
(No malicious items detected)

Physical Sector: 0
(No malicious items detected)


(end)

Likewise, my Win 7 server hasn't detected malware ever since I brought it online almost 2 years ago.

So what?  We have both achieved several systems that are fully secure from malware incursions, using three different versions of Windows.  We've proven it can be done.  But we're not the ones to worry about in conversations about general security.  It's the "dummy" crowd - the general public - who define how "secure" an operating system is, in modern terms.

Frankly, Microsoft has NEVER delivered a well-configured, tight, secure system out of the box.  They optimize for glitzy ad revenue.  Who in their right mind didn't see abuse coming when ActiveX first came out?

But back to the point:  We respect the Windows versions we base our customizations on because they could be turned into something better.  We have both done so (with knowledge, effort, and time that the general public doesn't have).  Where Microsoft falls down on the job now is that they're actively trying to block our kind of customization activity.  This is why they fail.

-Noel

I also do same , Everyday scan with malwarebyte . Also hitman pro alert exploit protection is used to prevent bad guys . hardware firewall of my router is there to protect me.

I like your customization as you did with your 8.1 . I use windowsblinds for skinning in my two XP pc also my 8.1 installation on my main pc . I use same aero ultra skin for XP and 8.1 .

Latest blinds 10 works on 8.1 where 7.4 works on xp still i use blinds 5 as it consume less ram.

I have created my personal skin which is aero ultra .

To keep my pc upto speed i use Avg PC tune up , SSD tweaker for my ssd, Diskkeeper also Cacheman as my memory and cache manager

Edited by Dibya
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Newsflash: In December 2016, Windows XP's market share actually increased to 9.07% -- the second month it has increased rather than declined! It is still solidly the world's third most popular operating system, while Windows 8.1 has further declined down to 6.9%.

https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0

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7 hours ago, vwestlife said:

Newsflash: In December 2016, Windows XP's market share actually increased to 9.07% -- the second month it has increased rather than declined! It is still solidly the world's third most popular operating system, while Windows 8.1 has further declined down to 6.9%.

https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0

Windows XP overkilled
Windows XP forever

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Very good. Still, I don't get why some developers keep spending too much effort for Linux, while abandoning XP which has a greater market share...

Anyway, XP rocks again! It's gonna be a good trip 'till 2019 and we are here all together, in the same boat. XP share has been a roller coaster ride, but this wonderful light OS has still a lot to offer. :)

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1 hour ago, FranceBB said:

Very good. Still, I don't get why some developers keep spending too much effort for Linux, while abandoning XP which has a greater market share...

Anyway, XP rocks again! It's gonna be a good trip 'till 2019 and we are here all together, in the same boat. XP share has been a roller coaster ride, but this wonderful light OS has still a lot to offer. :)

XP consumes barely any resource . On my system with esed AV it consumes 158MB Ram also 0 to 7 % CPU usage after startup

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My biggest problem with XP - back when it was current - was that I just couldn't use it as heavily as I needed and have it stay up for more than about a week on the same bootup before some resource or another was used up.

Trouble is, I'm the kind of person who has things for my computers to do 24/7, so that's important to me.  And I truly do multitask.  Today, for example, I was building multiple solutions simultaneously in multiple Visual Studio instances, because I needed all the results quickly.

The one big thing that NT technology brought to Microsoft was the concept that a computer operating system could actually be designed to be able to run virtually forever.  The problem with the early NT-based systems, XP included, was that the culture at Microsoft - that of "don't worry about it, it'll be rebooted daily" - was hard to dispel.  Overcoming that - finally - has led rise to being able to reliably do things like set up systems to do nightly builds, malware scans, backups, defrags, etc. etc., not to mention more modern long-winded things like mine for primes or other pursuits.

I'm sure the resource exhaustion and gradual self-corruption problems have long since been resolved with updates since the XP flavor that I used.  And certainly the 64 bit systems have resolved some of the fragmentation worries the smaller 32 bit systems had.  I ran XP x64 for several years, and it truly was rid of many of the issues that plagued me with trying to do big things with XP Pro 32 bit.

Windows XP x64 mostly, then Vista (after SP2 and a lot of bugfixes) were really the first systems I could work the hell out of and they would still run for months.  Windows 7 ran virtually forever right out of the box.  Windows 8.1 also does that for me now.

I haven't actually tried to run Windows 10 for more than about a week straight, so I don't know whether they're reverting back to their sloppy programming habits where it will need rebooting every so often.  I suspect they probably are.  Sloppy and software just don't go together and produce anything good. 

But - as configured by Microsoft - Windows 10 reboots itself every so often on purpose anyway, so who's gonna know?

-Noel

Edited by NoelC
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1 hour ago, NoelC said:

My biggest problem with XP - back when it was current - was that I just couldn't use it as heavily as I needed and have it stay up for more than about a week on the same bootup before some resource or another was used up.

Trouble is, I'm the kind of person who has things for my computers to do 24/7, so that's important to me.  And I truly do multitask.  Today, for example, I was building multiple solutions simultaneously in multiple Visual Studio instances, because I needed all the results quickly.

The one big thing that NT technology brought to Microsoft was the concept that a computer operating system could actually be designed to be able to run virtually forever.  The problem with the early NT-based systems, XP included, was that the culture at Microsoft - that of "don't worry about it, it'll be rebooted daily" - was hard to dispel.  Overcoming that - finally - has led rise to being able to reliably do things like set up systems to do nightly builds, malware scans, backups, defrags, etc. etc., not to mention more modern long-winded things like mine for primes or other pursuits.

I'm sure the resource exhaustion and gradual self-corruption problems have long since been resolved with updates since the XP flavor that I used.  And certainly the 64 bit systems have resolved some of the fragmentation worries the smaller 32 bit systems had.  I ran XP x64 for several years, and it truly was rid of many of the issues that plagued me with trying to do big things with XP Pro 32 bit.

Windows XP x64 mostly, then Vista (after SP2 and a lot of bugfixes) were really the first systems I could work the hell out of and they would still run for months.  Windows 7 ran virtually forever right out of the box.  Windows 8.1 also does that for me now.

I haven't actually tried to run Windows 10 for more than about a week straight, so I don't know whether they're reverting back to their sloppy programming habits where it will need rebooting every so often.  I suspect they probably are.  Sloppy and software just don't go together and produce anything good. 

But - as configured by Microsoft - Windows 10 reboots itself every so often on purpose anyway, so who's gonna know?

-Noel

Since sp3 this hell went . MY pc stays up for downloading stufs 24/6 Days . one day i should give my pc  bed rest  that is sunday.

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8 hours ago, NoelC said:


 

Trouble is, I'm the kind of person who has things for my computers to do 24/7, so that's important to me.  And I truly do multitask.  Today, for example, I was building multiple solutions simultaneously in multiple Visual Studio instances, because I needed all the results quickly.

The one big thing that NT technology brought to Microsoft was the concept that a computer operating system could actually be designed to be able to run virtually forever.  The problem with the early NT-based systems, XP included, was that the culture at Microsoft - that of "don't worry about it, it'll be rebooted daily" - was hard to dispel.  Overcoming that - finally - has led rise to being able to reliably do things like set up systems to do nightly builds, malware scans, backups, defrags, etc. etc., not to mention more modern long-winded things like mine for primes or other pursuits.

As you well know we need to agree to disagree.

I have run Windows NT 4.00 Workstation and Server, 2000 Workstation, 2000 server and also XP systems for several years shutting them down only for programmed maintenance or for hardware failures, and they all did what they were supposed to do 24/7[*].

I understand that in your case you asked (because you needed it)  simply "too much" to the system, but in "normal" operation all of them have been proved (and in several instances) "unbreakable", the "don't worry, if you won't reboot daily WE will reboot your machine daily pushing an update" is the "new" philosophy since 8/8.1 and 10.

jaclaz

[*] of course on "good quality" hardware, what has actually created issues -if any - over the years were either third party drivers or lousy hardware/peripherals in my experience.


 

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My XP system for KernelEx development hasn't been rebooted for 25 months, but does hibernate much of the time. It is not Internet-connected, but has been used to watch a couple of DVD movies with VisualStudio still running in the background.

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On 10/3/2016 at 5:45 PM, Flasche said:

To give an update of the User share for XP and other OSes Here they are as of September of 2016. (at least according to netmarketshare ;) )

  Reveal hidden contents

market.png

While I find that these statistics should be taken with a pinch of salt, there are some points of interest.


Netshare from August to September of 2016

Windows 10: decreased 22.99% to 22.53%

Windows 8.1: decreased 7.92% to 7.83%

Windows 8: decreased 1.82% to 1.78%

Windows 7: increased 47.25% to 48.25%

Windows XP: decreased 9.36% to 9.11%

Windows 2000: decrease ~0.01% to ~0.01% (source)

Windows NT: increase 0.12% to 0.23% [interestingly reached a yearly high of 0.73% of OS market share during May(16)]

Windows Vista is missing in the list

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