NotHereToPlayGames

I have seen that and many like that. No help in my case. My city utilities billbay has more locks than FORT KNOX (kind of a USA slang phrase). All I can really assume at this stage is that certain servers across the country receive Cloudflare "updates" BEFORE other servers. The infinite loops that happen on my city utilities billpay EVENTUALLY occur on Google Search also, but usually about THREE WEEKS later.

I'm not sure about here at MSFN because I've only observed this effect on other forums AFTER it was no longer "counting" properly here at MSFN. Other forums have a "one count" for folks not logged in and a "two count" for folks that are logged in. I've seen that on forums that "count" how many times an attached image is "viewed". Forum software of all kinds seems to have their own set of flaws (ie, a thread that is counted differently than the images posted inside that thread).

AGREED! Keep tooting that horn, LOUD AND PROUD. I have no problems in doing the same! One of TWO things will happen: 1) the OWNER gets off his a-s-s and *ALL* members, silent or otherwise, stand and applaud, or 2) you and I will be banned and *ALL* members will witness how we were banned for wanting nothing more than some level of ACCOUNTABILITY Speaking of ACCOUNTABILITY, shouldn't *ANYBODY* that has ever DONATED to MSFN kind of request a **REFUND** at this point ??? It is clear that server-level "maintenance" has been outright IGNORED for *at least* six months. I mean, as LOUD as we have already been, we haven't been told to "Please step aside, we are aware of the situation, we ADMIT our role in the cause-and-effect that unfolded, we are fixing this." Rather, NOTHING, a downright and absolute NOTHING. *No answer IS an answer.*

Agreed! But all of this recent "stuff" DOES have me wondering just where MSFN would be if AI was doing the "grunt work" INSTEAD of an "owner"? I kind of am left with "Well, AI could *NOT* have done any WORSE and it might have actually PREVENTED the current predicament."

AGREED. But remember, not all Cloudflare capcha's are "identical". The one for my city utilites goes into an ENDLESS LOOP for SUPERMIUM v144, Chrome v144, and Chromium v144. But yet that is the "newest" we have for SUPERMIUM. Supermium CAN pass the Cloudflare capcha offered up by BING if I want an AI-generated javascript kick-in-the-right-direction. But it can NOT pass the Cloudflare capcha to pay my city utilities.

Agreed. But this isn't really anything "new". What we call "AI programming" has been around for a long time. While OT herein, I cite the industry that I work in. The "programming" for your car's onboard "computer" is a helluva lot of "AI programming". From airbag deployment "logic" to school bus "traction control". Computers write a great deal of "code" that only is "reviewed" by Engineering, not actually "written" by Engineering.

You have OVERPLAYED that card! And I say that with respect! The issue was Supermium not passing Cloudflare (edit: not the crx topic, but the Cloudflare topic!) and all of that discussion that rolled out was ON-TOPIC. PERIOD.

Me personally, I'll go down with the ship! Not because I'm some Pirate Captain making Good Booty and loyal to the ship but because I'm the cheap labor traveling for free because somebody has to "scrub the deck". I do not "donate" to anything without a public accounting of the "inlays and outlays".

Agreed! My *PREDICTION* - we will see one of those "donate now or MSFN will have to shut down" threads in the very near future. We've seen it before, it's just around the corner, we (the members) are going to have to PAY FOR THIS one way or the other.

Astro, that is absolutely freakin' AWESOME !!! Still (to me) ALL AT THE FEET OF THE OWNER, but sure, if we want to place that blame "somewhere in between", I guess I can 'live with that'. And (to me) I'm still EXTREMELY "glass half empty" in thinking that said OWNER really even CARES to the extent of having to do such "removals" to FIX THIS SH#THOLE. Great work though in coming up with an ANSWER to all of this that the owner and at least one of the admins DOES KNOW but doesn't think ALL OF US should know. I kind of think that's where we are at now, THEY KNOW that THEIR LAZINESS is what caused all of this. I cited LONG AGO that I felt they weren't keeping up with patching security holes and also LONG AGO that I suspected all of the FAKE ACCOUNTS were somehow TIED TO THIS. Great Work !!! Love the write-up / conclusion / summary.

Here's an example, this CHEAP and USELESS "user agent switcher" does change the user agent. BUT... the Client Hints still tell SMART people (like CLOUDFLARE !!!) that this isn't Firefox 33, it is Chrome/Chromium 144. User Agents really are *USELESS* in this day and age. Doesn't mean to not "try" spoofing your user agent, BUT IT WILL NOT FOOL "SMART" COMPANIES (like Cloudflare).

You've missed the primary point. User Agent is *OLD SCHOOL*. You are better served learning NEW TRICKS and stop relying on the OLD tricks. Test your CLIENT HINTS and *STOP* focusing on User Agent. Go here: https://www.neutrinoapi.com/client-hints-analyzer/ Your old-school user agent is listed at the very top section. The next section (and this does not apply to any 'fox fork, just to any Chrome fork [ie, Supermium]) is your CLIENT HINTS. If BOTH SECTIONS do not AGREE with each other, the web site owner KNOWS THAT YOU ARE A LIAR !!! ie, "spoofing your OLD SCHOOL user agent" but not smart enough to spoof the CLIENT HINT that *goes hand in hand* with that user agent.

And for those that don't want to download that attachment:

Yes... and NO! You "can" change the User Agent, there are *TONS* of extensions that can do that, even just simple command line or Dev Tool Console methods. BUT if you don't ALSO change the CLIENT HINTS that GO WITH that User Agent, then you have DONE NOTHING except feed your own PLACEBO EFFECT. Change one *without the other* is something that even a GRADE SCHOOL "coder" can detect.

Good luck with that! I really think that IF THEY CARED, we wouldn't have needed this thread, or the other two, or the dozens of references. Call it "reverse psycholology", HOPEFULLY the more I say that they don't care, they will chime in to PROVE ME WRONG. But I for one ain't holdin' my breath on that LOST CAUSE. Carry on... GOOD LUCK !!!

I would kind of guess that only 15,000 of those were ever "real people". And that would be my *HIGH* estimate. It's not a violation of forum rules, people have lives, they join, forget that they joined, no longer have first email, join again years later with a different email, et cetera. We have tons of "spammer" accounts that join and are counted as a member, but their spam doesn't land for several weeks later (if it lands at all). MSFN has done a *GREAT* job at preventing SPAM (we used to have days where OVER A HUNDRED spams [Intuit QuickBooks or TurboTax!] would all land in a FIVE MINUTE SPAN). We no longer have that spam. But, we no longer have NEW members. OF ANY KIND! Real or Fake, we don't have either!

And it really comes down to how do NEW MEMBERS find MSFN. Because let's face facts, all MSFN has been for the past SIX MONTHS is all of us that are already members "talking to ourselves". Some odd digital circle jerk, pardon the phrase. And let's face facts, we've *LOST* a lot of GOOD MEMBERS because they already saw that writing on the wall, that all we do is "talk to ourselves". And let's face facts, many of us, whether we admit it or not, are just kind of downright "rude" to anybody not in 100% agreement with our own "paradigm". MSFN is *dead*. It really is. "Management" has left the building. Not even "reverse psychology" can get them to voice a view. Nobody really cares anymore. Just riding out the storm. All we can do, I guess, is keep hoping that the Definition of Insanity doesn't apply here.

Bingo! I did *NOT* become a member here at MSFN because I *searched* for "site:msfn.org whatever". I *searched* for "whatever" and it contained links for topics/threads on a website *I NEVER HEARD OF* prior to it being listed in a search engine's "list of results". Nobody searches for a webiste THEY NEVER HEARD OF by starting off their search query *WITH* the URL of that NEVER-HEARD-OF web site. Yeah, we've all heard of it "now", but it's safe to say that NONE OF US "stumbled onto MSFN" by performing a search for "site:msfn.org whatever".

No, we can't! I'm not saying to take my word for it, I would love for somebody to "trick" Cloudflare. But yeah, ALL SIGNS POINT TO *NO*, it can't be done! My city utilities (sewer and trash) is behind Cloudflare. Like CLOCKWORK, any browser older than a mere TWO MONTHS (just under, actually) can *NOT* be used to pay city utilities. So I've been "experimenting" for the last YEAR (at least). You can *NOT* spoof a UA, you can *NOT* fake Client Hints, you can *NOT* polyfill javascript. I've done a "million" things (exaggerating, but you get the idea). I'm not exactly a "stupid person" (how many people do you know that can FAKE CLIENT HINTS). I'm telling you, IT CAN'T BE DONE. I've been on dozens of sites that are smarter than me and they can't do it either. IT CAN'T BE DONE. The "technology" simply does not exist. Cloudflare is GREAT at what they do. I'm going to keep trying to "break" it. But so far, IT CAN'T BE DONE.

It's been two decades since I ran a website. But I have ran a website so there is at least a tiny shred of experience doing this speaking. Old and probably outdated, I cannot speak towards that. Back then, *I* (as owner of that website server) had to define what content could be "crawled" by search bots. I cannot speak for "today", but I have to assume that the owner of any website "still" has to define what content can even be SEEN by search bots. And what content is **HIDDEN** from search bots. Not to keep beating the dead horse, but all of that falls on the OWNER. I continue to place *zero* "blame" upon Google. They have a "brand" to PROTECT. And "allowing" Siamese results CUTS INTO that "reputation".

I am affected "now". As of just a few days ago. But prior to that, no effect here. So it's possible (strictly theoretically) that this "issue" that was gradually rolled out to all, will also gradually "un-roll". But only AFTER the owner "takes action". Google isn't going to do it "for him".

While I applaud the "enthusiasm" and you already know my perspective (that the owner has FULL BLAME), I have to say that there comes a point where this is nothing but "beating a dead horse". THREE threads? Inciting a riot? Violation of forum rules? I did it myself (the "out of context" 'bump'). So *YES*, again, I AGREE WITH YOU. But I still think "we" are beating a dead horse. "No answer is an answer." I guess I don't care anymore, it's been like this since January, to some countries more than others. You asked for feedback. That is mine. It's not "in lock-step with" yours, but it is still in AGREEMENT with yours. No matter how often either one of us 'bumps', the owner/admins/supervisors have "already spoken". Carry on...

I think he has the right thread. Just a language barrier. He's basically referring to how Cloudflare does *NOT* rely solely on UA.

No UA will fix that. crx4chrome may be trying to INSTALL instead of trying to DOWNLOAD and the INSTALL is being blocked (ie, such as would happen if using an UNGOOGLED version). Does v122 have a flag similar to this? ie, the MIME type options would be to DOWNLOAD instead of INSTALL:

Agreed!