bphlpt

I assume you mean significantly better in measurable ways like performance, stability, compatibility, functionality, etc. (And not just better by a percent or two.) I assume you do not mean things like looks, a few seconds faster boot time, being "current", etc. And while better game performance might eventually be a factor for some people, I assume you don't care about that unless it is very significantly better in a game you happen to play. Any other conditions you want to mention or changes you want to make to what I mentioned here? Not that having the latest OS, or having the absolutely fastest OS no matter how little the improvement, or having a look that you like are not valid reasons for using any particular OS. But I assume those are not reasons that you are talking about. Cheers and Regards

I'm not aware of any reason. I've asked the question myself - http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/173379-windows-10/page-38#entry1103095 - and have addressed Noel's current thinking - http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/174228-the-weighing-of-the-positives-and-negatives/?p=1105071. Unless there is: I just don't see any reason to change from Windows 7, nor recommend any later OS to other users. But I would also love to hear from other users who feel differently. Cheers and Regards

Please forgive me if I haven't kept up with this topic over the last 4 3/4 years, LOL, but how and why does one use this, I assume, nifty tool you created? I realize that it probably doesn't apply to me since I don't currently use any version of Win9x, but I read the "Q201685 - VxDs Version Info.pdf" and I think I get the reason that knowing the version of the files is useful, (if you are going to update, patch, or replace a file it is usually important to know the exact version of the file you are dealing with), but I still don't get how to use your tool. Sorry for being a noob. Cheers and Regards

Well, I suppose that things like this, if the advance specs come to pass and enough push-back from users does not force changes or additional capabilities are not added by the motherboard manufacturers, will make it more difficult for those users who like to use the absolutely latest hardware to continue to install Windows 7, but it still won't be impossible, and once installed there is no indication that performance will suffer in any way. It will depend on exactly what functions the motherboard manufacturers end up providing. I admit it might be the first single small nail in Windows 7 coffin, but I'm still not ready to switch. [OK, I'm stubborn. So sue me.] Cheers and Regards

To me, as a currently contented Windows 7 user, it boils down to why bother to go through the effort and trouble to change my OS, ... yet? It seems to me that all of your own personal performance, usability, and stability comparisons of a clean install of Windows 8.x or 10 vs Windows 7, and other performance comparisons of those OS that have been posted on this forum, on the same hardware with all appropriate updates and current tweaks equally applied to a system that meets all the system attributes you list above, show that Windows 7 either beats the other two or is close enough so that the difference is essentially insignificant, especially since you are only comparing desktop use and you are ignoring all Modern apps, (I also have not heard of any that are enticing enough for me to need or want to use). And the time, effort, and amount of tweaks to achieve this are also less on Windows 7. Yes, Windows 10 is "current", as Windows 8.1 also is at the moment, but no matter how much this fact is emphasized, I have yet to see what value this is to me as a user, especially on my existing hardware, which unfortunately is not as current as I would like. And even if or when I upgrade any aspect of my hardware, I am not aware of any piece of hardware or software that would not be equally usable on Windows 7 versus a newer OS. Usually I hear the opposite as manufacturers and software providers are trying to get drivers, utilities, etc working correctly with the newer OS as you yourself point out above. Besides the minor doubts you state above about the value of staying current, I'll add that as least as long as Windows 7 remains the dominant OS in use, I believe that manufacturers and 3rd party software providers will continue to test their products on Windows 7. I have to believe they would be foolish not to do so. How much longer they also continue to test with Windows 8.x is another question. It might end up with a similar fate as Vista. Not that hardware and software won't or can't be made to work with it, but testing for it might not be emphasized. Just my opinion. Since you are comparing the setup of Windows 10 to match your existing Windows 8.1 setup, in performance and ability to work with your existing hardware and software development tools, again, as a user I see no compelling reason to need to change from an OS that meets my needs. The look and feel is what I want and all my applications are ready and work now. Plenty of theme options are available if I want to change the look. The promise of "continuous updates", the problems such "forced" updates have already caused some folks regardless of the recent tools to combat them, and the recent privacy concerns that have risen from MS's desire to monitor my computer use to "better serve my needs", that are all happening now, are all much more troubling than the possible future problems that might occur due to me not being "current". I'm sure that I'll have to address the privacy issues even on Windows 7 as updates are issued, but forums such as this will help and I'm sure the efforts involved will likely be easier on Window 7 since MS will probably be emphasizing Windows 10 more themselves. I'm sure telemetry gathering by other software providers, whether it be from Google, Adobe, Mozilla, or whomever, will also have to be addressed, but the effort to do so will probably be roughly equal for any of the NT6+ OS versions. And what about their actions in the last few years have lead you to that conclusion, especially with their continued goals to be ever more consumer oriented, regardless of their failures with things like Windows phone? For a software developer such as yourself, I agree that it boils down to both "How much value is there really going to be in a continued partnership with Microsoft?" and "How much cost in time, effort, and lost productivity will there be to achieve a fully functional and stable Windows 10 system that is better than a system that I already have?" I am just not convinced that the answer to either of those questions favors Windows 10 over Windows 7, even if the "upgrade" is "free", and regardless of your groundbreaking guidance on how to manage the migration. For a user, in addition to those factors, a "must have" Modern app, (they still remind me of "gadgets" that have come and gone over the years), or an advancement in DX11+ for game use that cannot be back-ported to a previous OS, might be a factor for some small subset of users, but neither of those apply to me at this time. So, for me, I just don't see any reason whatsoever to change OS, or to recommend Windows 10 over Windows 7 to other users. As to pros and cons, besides the "current" argument, or unless you prefer the newer Windows 10 look, or the Modern app or DX11+ factors applies to you, I don't think I've seen a single "con" mentioned regarding staying with Windows 7. Please don't get me wrong. If or when the time ever comes that I need or want or am forced to move to Windows 10, I will be the first in line to grovel at your feet and kiss them profusely to express my undying gratitude for the vast amount of hard work and extraordinarily thorough testing you and others have done and reported that will make it easier for those that follow to make the transition. I really, really appreciate your continued efforts to tame it. Windows 10 has been released and is upon us, I just don't see any reason to have to deal with it, ... yet. Cheers and Regards

Well, I also can't vouch for the veracity, but if I understand the what he claims in the thread, he had a legit copy of Win7 working fine for some time, then he updated to Win10 without issue. He then had some problems with Win10 so he rolled back to Win7 only to find that the previously legit key was then blocked. He eventually used some warez to be able to get back online so he could try to resolve his problem. If the situation as described is indeed true, then that is the first I've heard of such a situation. But the above is neither here nor there. We can't help diagnose a problem that isn't directly presented to us. We also can't get involved at all as long as he is using some warez. And if the situation is not exactly as he described and he was doing anything shady, then he deserved what he got, as was mentioned above. As to Noel's point about making a system backup before any major system change, no matter how valid that point is, it is a fact that too many folks do not do that but rather place their mistaken trust in whomever is providing the update they are trying to install, whether that is MS, a driver provider, or whomever. So that's their fault, but that doesn't alleviate their pain. Cheers and Regards

Because if they only pursued Windows 8.x users, then it's likely that Windows 10 wouldn't be much more of a success than Windows 8.x was. Probably a little better, but not as much as they wanted. At least that's my opinion. It's sad that up through Windows 7, with the exception of Vista even though I think that by SP1 it really wasn't as bad as the reputation it got, Windows earned a larger and larger user base because people wanted it, they chose it, and they paid for it. MS profited and earned more and more money, software creators made more and more standardized software that folks also sought out and bought and paid for so those companies got rich as well, and the users in general got value for their money. If the user was a company they were able to do more and more things easier, faster, and sometimes cheaper than they used to. Home users were able to do things from mail, their taxes, games and consume data that others created such as music, eBooks, videos, etc. More and more users meant that more computer manufacturers were able to make a profit and through competition the hardware got more and more powerful, yet cheaper. Now MS is giving the OS away and yet some folks are resisting the free "upgrade". It's just sad. Cheers and Regards

As we feared, and as you have now seen, Dave, merely showing no interest in Windows 10 is not enough. You need to specifically say that you don't want it, block the things that enable or assist in its installation, and actively stay on alert for attempts to install it anyway. Also be aware that hiding certain updates is not always sufficient either. If a newer version of an update that you have hidden is released, you will have to specifically hide it as well. A different version is considered the same as a different update. Hiding an earlier version will not carry over. MS really, really wants everyone to be using Windows 10. Cheers and Regards

And to further quote from the comments to that article: Since the author never responded to the above, I'll continue to wait. Cheers and Regards

I 'm taking the conservative approach and blocking/hiding per dencorso's list. I figure, perhaps wrongly, that if Noel's fear that KB3044374 / KB2990214 "improvements" become necessary I can always add them back in later and things will be right as rain once again. ie, at least as far as this list of "updates" is concerned, only add what is truly proven to be necessary. Am I missing something? Cheers and Regards

Hmmmmmm. [gentle teasing] NoelC, that sounds very familiar. Kind of like what others, including me, have said about their OS, whether it is Win7, Vista, XP, 2K, or earlier, when they were told asked about "upgrading" to a newer MS OS. [/gentle teasing] We're always glad to hear how others have made the newer OS bow to their wishes and needs, and it might even convince us to upgrade ourselves at some point in the future, but only when we're ready and convinced of the value for us. Cheers and Regards

FWIW, one sold on eBay in May, 2015 for US $30, with broken wifi and missing charger. Cheers and Regards

Welcome! Cheers and Regards

You can also check here - http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/172826-windows-10-first-impressions/page-55#entry1104339 - and the following few posts for more info related to removing core apps from Windows 10. Cheers and Regards

Welcome to MSFN! Cheers and Regards

Did you try the suggestion from Richard Saunders in the comments?

If that's the case, then I'd like to see the same type of telemetry gathering, privacy-invading stuff blocked for Windows 7 and 8.x. I would think you would, too. Cheers and Regards

Jaclaz's quote is from here - http://windows10_dpi_blurry_fix.xpexplorer.com/. If you quote his reply, and switch the edit box to BBCode mode you can see it. I have no idea what's going on with his post. EDIT: Something's screwy with the MSFN forum, since it happens with my link as well. Remove the extra spaces from the following http: // windows10_dpi_blurry_fix .xpexplorer .com Cheers and Regards

Both of you please be nice I couldn't agree more. Cheers and Regards

why install Windows 10 if you are going to use Classic Shell: I guess you never tried it.Take a chance, you may like it. I set it so I can use the stock (MS) menu with just a middle click of my mouse brings it up. And, just for what you can do with the taskbar settings, it' well worth installing it. So, try it. You can uninstall it if you don't like it. LOL, why would I go back to a start menu which I hated? The windows 7 start menu is horrible. I love the Windows 10 Start Menu. It is in the realm of the gods! Now, now. While we're very glad that Windows 10 works for you and that you like it, I thought we agreed to disagree? Please be nice. Cheers and Regards

FWIW, I'm not saying at all that those three nameless IP's should be removed from your list, but for me: 65.39.117.230 -- Webpage not available -- took too long to respond 134.170.30.202 -- went to http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps-and-games 137.116.81.24 -- brought up a page that just had "Ok" on it, whatever that means. Cheers and Regards

Isn't it the "Store and display recently opened programs" option? Cheers and Regards

I would strongly suggest using that option if possible, even if you need to work with Rick to make sure it has all the appropriate updates, but I think it does already. Rick makes every effort to keep it up to date. Sort of. SNMsynth builds custom unattended installers which can be packaged as T-13 and/or RunOnceEx nLite/RVM Integrator add-on(s), are compatible with HFSLIP if used switchless, can integrate multiple languages for each framework, and many other options. But it hasn't been updated in quite awhile and it doesn't include .NET 4.0, so I think it is out of date for your purposes. I believe the source might still be available, so you're welcome to take a look at it. It is by no means trivial code. It is roughly about the same level of complexity as HFSLIP. It worked well in its day, so it might could be made to work again, but there hasn't been any interest in it lately. Cheers and Regards

I'm curious, is there a particular reason you really, really need to have all the .NET frameworks integrated into the source? I would think it would be much easier, and might even be faster and take less space, to use Ricktendo's [Legacy] .NET Framework AIO for XP x86 (7-8-2015) which includes .NET 1.1, 2.0, 3.0, 3.5, and 4.0, is up to date with updates, has had all the unnecessary junk stripped out of it, and is specifically designed for use with XP SP3 x86. There's nothing at all wrong with wanting to learn how to do it manually yourself, in fact it's admirable, but it is an alternative to consider. If you are working on XP or 2003 x64 that would explain it, but then you probably should mention that in your post. If that is the case, maybe you could work with Ricktendo in creating a x64 version of his installer? I always thought that would be useful, but I didn't know if there was enough interest to warrant the work involved to create such a thing. Maybe you could get others to assist as well, like maybe 5eraph? Just a thought. Cheers and Regards

But that still doesn't answer the question of - If you do downgrade to a previous version of Windows, can you then re-upgrade to Windows 10 later? And if you can, can you still do so for free even after the one year upgrade period has expired? That's two separate, but related, questions. If the answer to the second question is "No", then it doesn't seem to be worth the trouble to do the downgrade at all, if you want to end up with Windows 10 eventually. Just wait until the last possible minute to do the upgrade. Maybe by then they'll have figured out how to make Windows 10 more touch friendly, or you'll have decided that you're happier with Windows 8.x after all. Just my two cents. Cheers and Regards