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patchworks

Open Sourcing Windows 9x

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It seems impossible because no one has started work on it yet can you tell me if someone has started this open source windows 98 project

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IMAO, this way it could be possible to find out where to start working... :blushing:

It's not a question of "which", but a question of "what". I, for example, would begin work with "win.com", being the most obvious place to start, but without knowing exactly what part of starting the OS it plays, and what libraries it uses, and how it loads them, it would be impossible to write a replacement.

The WINE team has produced a lot of code for Win9.x alike OS's

No, it provided code for emulating Windows OS. The code itself is targeted for linux and could not be run on Windows. It certainly cannot replace any of the Windows libraries.

It has the same frontend(which requires no reverse-engineering, since it's sufficiently well documented in MSDN), but a completely different backend.

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No, it provided code for emulating Windows OS.
You are wrong.

WINE acronym is very explicit by nature "Wine Is Not an Emulator"

Most DLL's found on wine distributions will work just good on regular Windows environments, except the ones who have been custom modified to work with custom characteristics required for the Wine project (registry hives handling is such example). I have used them on a few occasions to avoid use of MS copyright restricted software.

I suggest that you start by reading the wiki page:

Functionality

As of mid-2007, Wine runs some software with good stability and most software with minor issues. Most native Microsoft Windows DLLs necessary for the execution of 32-bit Windows binaries have compatible Wine counterparts. The developers of the Direct3D portions of Wine have continued to implement new features such as pixel shaders to increase game support.[9] Wine can also use native DLLs directly, thus increasing functionality, but then a license for Windows is needed unless the DLLs were distributed with the application itself.

And about this:

It has the same frontend(which requires no reverse-engineering, since it's sufficiently well documented in MSDN), but a completely different backend.

MSDN doesn't document everything and you're bound to get stuck several times trying to understand how the Win32 API actually works.

This is also mentioned on the wiki page:

The project has proved time-consuming and difficult for the developers, mostly because of incomplete and incorrect documentation of the Windows API[citation needed]. While Microsoft has documented most Win32 functions, some areas such as file formats and protocols have no official Microsoft specification. There are also undocumented low-level functions and obscure bugs[citation needed] that Wine must duplicate precisely in order to allow some applications to work properly. Consequently, the Wine team has had to reverse engineer many function calls and file formats in such areas as thunking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_(software)

I've stumbled on this difficulty many times, MS simply doesn't give away their trade secrets.

As I've mentioned before - the Wine and ReactOS projects are the best (open source) option to start learning how these things work. On this case I would focus on Wine as they focused for many years on Win9.x and this is still visible today.

:)

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The WINE team has produced a lot of code for Win9.x alike OS's

No, it provided code for emulating Windows OS. The code itself is targeted for linux and could not be run on Windows. It certainly cannot replace any of the Windows libraries.

It has the same frontend(which requires no reverse-engineering, since it's sufficiently well documented in MSDN), but a completely different backend.

Sorry for the plug but figured it was relevant to this. :)

WINE - Win32 Binaries / DLLs

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.p...ckage_id=112520

Not sure what use they would be though other than extending what isn't on older windows OS's (win3.1 perhaps?)

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Sorry for the plug but figured it was relevant to this. :)

WINE - Win32 Binaries / DLLs

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.p...ckage_id=112520

Not sure what use they would be though other than extending what isn't on older windows OS's (win3.1 perhaps?)

I've already tried the programs; most of those wouldn't even work. So I'd be leery of simply trying to drop in and replace them. kernel32.dll and ntdll.dll are nowhere near complete enough to be useful.

Status of Wine dlls.

Not to mention those are from a much older version of Wine, so they haven't even advanced that far.

As far as Windows 3.1 goes, it might actually be easier to use some other free operating system, like FreeGEM, and run HX DOS Extender on it.

HX DOS Extender

Edited by idisjunction

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Well, FREEGem is NOT an open source operating system, it is a GUI SHELL for DOS:

http://gem.shaneland.co.uk/Faq.txt

http://www.owenrudge.net/GEM/

It is true that windows 3.x was as well a GUI SHELL for DOS, and that even WIN9x is partly just a SHELL, but FreeGem/Opengem have no intention to introduce "compatible with Windows" apps.

If you are interested in resurrecting Win3.x, you might be interested in this:

http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=16754

(in the thread there are also references to some alternative SHELLs for DOS)

and latest minibox related thread:

http://www.boot-land.net/forums/?showtopic=623

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz

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Not sure what use they would be though other than extending what isn't on older windows OS's (win3.1 perhaps?)

Actually, Win3.11 is a bit out of question, since it doesn't even support Win32 out of the box and even Win32s won't be enough for most libraries and such.

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Not to mention those are from a much older version of Wine, so they haven't even advanced that far.

As far as that is concerned, Ivan Leo Puoti doesn't compile win32 binaries of Wine since 0.9.14 in 2006.06.04... The most recent Wine version is 0.9.58, so if anyone is interested in seeing how the DLLs and progs now work, contact him to compile the most recent version...

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Here's my idea (pls don't get nervous on me i don't know how do all the things work with this) why doesn't somebody try to make this :

Freedos+Seal Gui or FreeGEM gui or Sword Gui = Some kind of an Windows Clone :)

So what do you think bout this ?

Edited by benxhi

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My all time favourite DOS UI is McShell which was created a long time ago.

It beats the competition to dust but unfortunately is not (yet) open source as it contains some licensed resources (even thought the companies that licensed some of these resources have long disappeared).

The author might be willing to release as open source if enough interest is raised.

When I spoke with him about his trial version, he offered for free the full unrestricted version.

Very cool indeed, download here: http://www.boot-land.net/forums/?showtopic=752

:)

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Here's my idea (pls don't get nervous on me i don't know how do all the things work with this) why doesn't somebody try to make this :

Freedos+Seal Gui or FreeGEM gui or Sword Gui = Some kind of an Windows Clone :)

So what do you think bout this ?

It wouldn't support 9x drivers, and would have only limited compatibility with 9x programs. If the SEAL GUI was still being developed, it might be an interesting tradeoff, but no one has done anything with it since 2002.

Bottom line: Windows caters to different types of people, and it will be near impossible to address all of their needs. Software compatibility will never be 100% (even Microsoft can't guarantee that), it might not be possible to have open-source drivers for all hardware out there (as has been suggested), and someone will always be complaining that it is too slow on their AMD 386SX that they dragged out of their closet.

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...and someone will always be complaining that it is too slow on their AMD 386SX that they dragged out of their closet.

lmao... :yes: and thats the truth!

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Freedos+Seal Gui or FreeGEM gui or Sword Gui = Some kind of an Windows Clone :)

Again, guys: this project idea has a different point of view/start !

1. You *need* an installed version of MicroSoft Windows 9x;

2. You *need* a fully functional internet connection;

3. You must donwload/install a project package manager;

4. Package manager downloads alternatives and substitutes official components.

This approach means that we don't have to start "from scratch", but we just need the package manager, the "upgrades server" and the open source alternatives (and not all actually, the hunt could be dynamic...)

Hope that is more clear now. :rolleyes:

Edited by patchworks

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