r3dfox, a modern Firefox based web browser for Windows Vista, 7, and 8!

[Jody Thornton]

7 minutes ago, VistaLover said:

In closing, I'm not being entitled or ungrateful towards the r3dfox author; huge thanks  from my side for what he has offered to me over the last two years or so  ...

I COMPLETELY agree @VistaLover.  By the way, you really did a complete job in your above assessment.  I'm also grateful to what @K4sum1 gave us.  But I also need to look after my needs.  While I hate that we have a Google-fied web, I've stopped worrying about the implications of all of the privacy issues we face.  It's not that I disagree with the level of concern, but it's that we REALLY can do nothing about it.  I need to perform online banking, watch and help produce videos on YouTube, use WebRTC to voice traffic reports, and take part in Zoom meetings, Google Meet and Teams Meetings, and apply for work; all which basically NECESSITATES providing a good chunk of personal information to proceed.  I don't agree with the corporate tactics, but I must continue to function.

It was indeed K4Sum1's project, as Pale Moon was Moonchild's.  What I feel these visionary types (who admittedly deserve a lot of credit for their work), fail to realize is that those that make up their user base are CONSUMERS or CUSTOMERS.  Now Moonchild and his "moonie minions" VEHEMENTLY disagree with that.  But customers are not just defined as those providing monetary exchange to a company or corporation for a product.  They can be those who provide voluntary stake to a company, or mission.  So in this way, those who co-develop alongside Moonchild, those who provide add-ons, those who beta test, and YES even those who simply (and regularly) USE Pale Moon, are indeed customers and stakeholders.

When someone creates a project, and it attracts users to the resulting product, such as in K4Sum1's r3dFox, expectations begin to be developed.  No matter if these expectations are right or wrong for the userbase to behold, they are real, and the developer needs to contend with them.  Those are simply the facts.  K4Sum1 provided a way for me to use Windows 8 on an extended basis, and you become reliant on that. When K4Sum1 understandably says, "I'm just not feeling it", it doesn't incite a favourable response among the userbase.  Fair?  Perhaps not, but it's a very real sentiment.

@K4sum1, I genuinely hope you are OK.

[VistaLover]

8 hours ago, ED_Sln said:

The repository on GitHub is archived

... And un-archived now : 

https://github.com/Eclipse-Community/r3dfox

[ED_Sln]

7 hours ago, VistaLover said:

And un-archived now : 

Yes, and versions ESR 128.14.1 and 140.5.0 have already been released.

[VistaLover]

On 11/12/2025 at 4:03 PM, ED_Sln said:

and the website is down

On 11/12/2025 at 8:05 PM, VistaLover said:

As for the Eclipse Board , they mention "Temporary maintenance" (stress on "temporary" is mine  ) ...

... Eclipse Board is now back in business  (technically, it never went off-line) ...

On 11/13/2025 at 8:29 AM, ED_Sln said:

and versions ESR 128.14.1 and 140.5.0 have already been released.

.. But I'd be very wary of ; both have been LibreWolf-ified ; I'd make a profile back-up prior to updating, in case one decides to revert to the previous ESRs (128.12.0rc2 and 140.2.0, respectively); just sayin' , not suggesting people shouldn't update...

Edited Friday at 02:43 PM by VistaLover

[NotHereToPlayGames]

I clearly haven't been following close enough.

I have no "d#mn clue" as to just what LibreWolf-ified means. 

I know what LibreWolf is (tried it several years ago, didn't like it, deleted it, never looked back).

[VistaLover]

22 hours ago, NotHereToPlayGames said:

I clearly haven't been following close enough.

I have no "d#mn clue" as to just what LibreWolf-ified means. 

Not my fault, really, but here you go: 

https://board.eclipse.cx/viewtopic.php?p=7539#p7539

https://board.eclipse.cx/viewtopic.php?p=7542#p7542

https://board.eclipse.cx/viewtopic.php?p=7593#p7593

There was this r3dfox bug and the author (thought he) found the solution in one of LibreWolf's special "policies", but while he was "there", he decided to also implement several other LW policies/settings into r3dfox; this is implied in the bolded wording of every new "LW-ified" r3dfox release, e.g. 128.14.1esr: 

Quote

NOTE: There are a bunch of changes made to this build which may break compatibility with websites and may change default settings. Please let me know if 128.14.1/140.5.0esr+ or 144+ breaks any websites for you.

Testimonies of breakage can be found in the linked Eclipse Forum thread and in the GH issue tracker (recent open/closed issues), e.g. 

https://github.com/Eclipse-Community/r3dfox/issues?q= is%3Aissue state%3Aopen sort%3Aupdated-desc

https://github.com/Eclipse-Community/r3dfox/issues?q=is%3Aissue state%3Aclosed sort%3Aupdated-desc

What made me furious the most was this  ; but, as I wrote already, I'm only speaking for myself here; it may well be that the majority of the r3dfox users are still very happy to have got new releases with the latest security patches, courtesy of Mozilla  ..

As you often write, "moving on"  ...

Edited Friday at 02:46 PM by VistaLover

[Mathwiz]

On 10/20/2025 at 2:55 AM, NotHereToPlayGames said:

Retail markets encourage cash by charging HIGHER for non-cash. 

Many US retailers do indeed offer a small discount for cash, to cover credit card processing fees. But transactions of thousands of dollars (to cover the cost of, say, a PC) are still quite rare, and that's what I meant by "large." The cost of a smart phone is probably "on the bubble:" large enough to be uncommon, but not impractical, and I do know of smart phone retailers who prefer cash.

On 10/20/2025 at 3:24 AM, NotHereToPlayGames said:

The $600 always paid "under the table".  Apparently it's some IRS Tax Loophole.

AIUI that's correct. Income of $600 or less (works out to $50/month) from any one payer need not be reported. (Disclaimer: I am not a tax attorney; this is just my understanding - and you're still supposed to pay taxes even on income that wasn't reported!) But if your "friend of a friend" is replacing a roof for $600 labor, I'd say he'd be better off charging the going rate, or just under, and paying the tax!

[Mathwiz]

On 11/12/2025 at 12:05 PM, VistaLover said:

And my own words on DRM/EME:

I found r3dfox maintainer's "obsession" about DRM simply "blown out of proportion"; he goes to extreme lengths to disable EME at buildtime, but the browser itself provides an easy way to disable EME at runtime, if one objects to it for whatever ideological reason...

Let's face it; with Google practically owning the Web, they have leveraged the use of their own CDM (Widevine) in most media services, even the most obscure, but still free, ones... Yes, I totally understand the argument about "black-boxed code" etc., but DRM has become a necessary evil in the web era of 2025 and beyond...

A lot of focus has been put on the VMP (Verified Media Path) requirement associated with the majority of the prominent/commercial DRM'ed Video+Audio services (e.g. Netflix, Disney+, Paramount+, Spotify, Tidal, Apple Music, etc.) as a reason NOT to implement DRM on r3dfox (because VMP entails a very large sum of money, paid to Google, for certifying the browser for VMP purposes), but what about the rest of the lesser known services that don't impose VMP with DRM? Jody's example of 

https://www.cp24.com/now/

is such a case, there are many others...

The whole thing kind of reminds me, in some twisted way, of Moonchild and his own browser, Pale Moon, where he vehemently refused to implement DRM of any kind; but while Basilisk was still his, he allowed the DRM functionality inherited from his FxESR-52 forkpoint to stay enabled; that is, until the point he could no longer shoehorn-in upstream (Mozilla) DRM patches and, one day, DRM in Basilisk was declared such a big Evil that had to be completely excised!

(NB: Latest Widevine CDM (a .dll) needs Win8+ to properly function; on Vista/Win7, some wrapper DLLs (e.g. borrowed from the Supermium project ) are actually needed to make it work there (and only on non-VMP services)).

Once again, learning a lot!

I don't use R3dFox to watch DRM comment, so I didn't even realize R3dfox had disabled DRM. As you say, shades of Pale Moon. All the niche browsers combined aren't going to force YouTube et al. to abandon it!

And I agree that the correct way to deal with the issue is to leave the DRM supporting code in the browser, and just disable it with a pref, which can then be re-enabled by the user if desired.

Finally, I do consider VMP evil, and understand that niche browsers like R3dFox will never support VMP. But as long as there are sites that impose DRM but don't require VMP, we should still be allowed to access those sites.

All that said, though, I still appreciate having R3dFox on my "ancient" Win 7 PC and will keep using it for the ever-increasing number of Web sites that flummox Serpent.

[Mathwiz]

Deleted duplicate post

Edited 1 hour ago by Mathwiz