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Official - Windows 10 Worst Crap Ever!


bookie32
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IMO games, not bloat, have driven the need for more powerful hardware, 

For a long time bigger software came with actual benefits.  We didn't need giga- or tera- sized disk drives at one time, but then we didn't keep thousands of music tracks or videos or digital camera images with tens of megapixels.  Now as of e.g., 2010 we can store those and play them in high fidelity.  Ask yourself:  What MORE can we do in 2020?  We were told things like Virtual/Augmented Reality would become commonplace.  Newsflash:  It didn't happen.

I'm observing specifically this in the last 10 years:  With the hardware now twice as big, the OS has expanded to be even more than twice as bloated.  Perhaps as much as four times.  To the point where current hardware doesn't run the same software as well as the last generation.

I was looking over some old data I had accumulated...  I had made a spreadsheet from some testing.  Back in 2015, Photoshop CC 2015 would start in 3.5 seconds on my WIndows 8.1 workstation.  Now the latest Photoshop starts in 6 seconds on my much more powerful Windows 10 workstation.  I thought that some of that may be the latest Photoshop getting less efficient, but even the older versions don't start as quickly as they did on lesser hardware.  There is no excuse for this.  We are not getting more reliable disk storage, nor better integration, nor a better computing experience.  If anything, all of that has gotten worse.  It's no wonder people pine for Windows 7.  It got things done, even if less efficiently than XP.

Earlier today I was trying to open a number of VNC windows to servers I need to manage, so that I could monitor them.  The OS didn't provide features - and I haven't found a 3rd party add-on, so far - that would just allow me to open a group of VNC windows in the exact same locations and sizes they were in before.  I have to write a custom script to do it, using an old tool that's been around since the 1990s.

Where is the advancement?  Even station-keeping would be fine; not regression!

-Noel

Edited by NoelC
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Speaking of "where's the advancement", can we start a discussion or make a list of the features that Windows 10's dozen releases have that are a significant/notable/actual improvement over Windows 8.1 (note: not Windows 7). I have started a list in my Notepad but would like to expand it (if I can find any worthwhile features) :D Note: such a list should not have bogus crap, lame features or gimmicks like Cortana or Fluent design etc. :D Just solid advancements.

- Windows Hypervisor Platform (WHPX) is nice to have for me for running emulators that take advantage of it, since 1803
- Wi-Fi Hotspot performance and implementation in Windows 10 is better than Windows 7/8.1's Hosted Network, it's better at assigning DHCP addresses etc too and allows choosing frequency band (there since 1607)
- Webcams/webcam stream can be shared between apps/passed from one app to another due to the frame server/webcam proxy they have since 1607.
GPU-PV (GPU Paravirtualization) and PCIe Direct Device Assignment (DDA) in Hyper-V Virtual Machines is useful, available in Windows 10 also, not just Windows Server. In general, there have been some good improvements in Windows Display Driver Model (WDDM 2.x releases).

That's 4 features that I find of value in 5 years, 11 releases. :D And we have already discussed dozens of pages of regressive changes and will continue to discuss them.

I'd like to hear others' perspectives on this, although every time someone mentions a feature, I always find that Windows 7/8.1 did it just as well. Yes, technically, Windows 10 has "hundreds" of features added in each release but most of it is just fluff.

Update: Of course, Windows 10 is incredibly bloated and filled with too much gunk most people do not need. Full of deal breaking feature regressions and performance regressions too. And in no way I would say, it is faster or efficient. :D My only way of dealing with the bloat is throwing more powerful hardware at it since Microsoft had a genius evil idea to blackmail us into "upgrading". I am just trying to find out if there's anything really worthwhile.

Edited by xpclient
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15 hours ago, NoelC said:

I'm observing specifically this in the last 10 years:  With the hardware now twice as big, the OS has expanded to be even more than twice as bloated.  Perhaps as much as four times.  To the point where current hardware doesn't run the same software as well as the last generation.

The main difference to point out here is that your new hardware (ie. motherboard) doesn't also include your old motherboard in it as well. That isn't the case for Windows 10, which also includes Windows 8, Windows 7, Windows XP and even Windows 95 inside of it.

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isn't that natural progression ?
since everything that "was", was improved upon, not copied and left duplicated...

not to mention, since they started componentisation thing with reset of Longhorn,
the issue with so many crap inside should have been put to minimum

 

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Not really. With hardware, you do not have the luxury of just adding things on top of the existing board and then selling it as a new model. Same with cars or anything else. The engineers learn what works, what didn't, and what should be added, then they create the new product from the ground up. It may use some of the same components that the previous product did, but it is still a new product that is created. This isn't so with Windows. Microsoft doesn't start over from scratch when a new version of Windows is released.

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On 1/5/2021 at 12:22 AM, NoelC said:

IMO games, not bloat, have driven the need for more powerful hardware, 

For a long time bigger software came with actual benefits.  We didn't need giga- or tera- sized disk drives at one time, but then we didn't keep thousands of music tracks or videos or digital camera images with tens of megapixels.  Now as of e.g., 2010 we can store those and play them in high fidelity.  Ask yourself:  What MORE can we do in 2020?  We were told things like Virtual/Augmented Reality would become commonplace.  Newsflash:  It didn't happen.

I'm observing specifically this in the last 10 years:  With the hardware now twice as big, the OS has expanded to be even more than twice as bloated.  Perhaps as much as four times.  To the point where current hardware doesn't run the same software as well as the last generation.

I was looking over some old data I had accumulated...  I had made a spreadsheet from some testing.  Back in 2015, Photoshop CC 2015 would start in 3.5 seconds on my WIndows 8.1 workstation.  Now the latest Photoshop starts in 6 seconds on my much more powerful Windows 10 workstation.  I thought that some of that may be the latest Photoshop getting less efficient, but even the older versions don't start as quickly as they did on lesser hardware.  There is no excuse for this.  We are not getting more reliable disk storage, nor better integration, nor a better computing experience.  If anything, all of that has gotten worse.  It's no wonder people pine for Windows 7.  It got things done, even if less efficiently than XP.

Earlier today I was trying to open a number of VNC windows to servers I need to manage, so that I could monitor them.  The OS didn't provide features - and I haven't found a 3rd party add-on, so far - that would just allow me to open a group of VNC windows in the exact same locations and sizes they were in before.  I have to write a custom script to do it, using an old tool that's been around since the 1990s.

Where is the advancement?  Even station-keeping would be fine; not regression!

-Noel

Hi Noel!:D

Thanks as always for your updates...

I still look for something that I can find positive with Windows 10....but sadly I can't...Windows 10 has shown so many things that do not work and it varies from version to version what (if anything) has improved (or got worse). I have seen such simple things as "plug and play" not work at times....One aspect of Windows I have never liked is One Drive. People start there new computers and come to connecting to there network and nearly everyone connects to their Lan or Wifi and then you have to log in with a Microsoft account....it causes so much problems for the elderly that have short term memory problems. Even if you don't connect to your network and create a local account...Microsoft is forever asking us to finish off our settings and create a Microsoft account....as soon as folks do this and get conned into One drive...it ***** up their system folders and it is a pain to fix...Never liked One Drive and if I want to use it I login to my Microsoft account to transfer stuff I want on line for support. I had a customer the other day that had forgotten their login password and had no Idea of how to fix it....most of my pensioners are just not any good at writing up passwords etc ...and even if they do...they forget where they have written them....Of course I fixed this now with a local account and no password so they do not have to try and remember them...:buehehe: 

My partner likes Microsoft Teams and thinks that works well...several other customers have commented about that ...but I won't even waste energy on Microsoft and stick to third party software.....

I upgraded my work computers to Windows 10 a while back and that is 1909. I froze all updates...removed all apps....and it has been OK...still prefer Windows 7 over this rubbish! The downside of this is going to the next update and going through the procedure again....just wish Microsoft could respect their users settings and leave them alone....

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On 1/5/2021 at 3:46 PM, Tripredacus said:

The main difference to point out here is that your new hardware (ie. motherboard) doesn't also include your old motherboard in it as well. That isn't the case for Windows 10, which also includes Windows 8, Windows 7, Windows XP and even Windows 95 inside of it.

Now there is something I wasn't considering when wondering why Windows 10 is so slow......:D

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Anecdata:

Yesterday came in a telephone technician to fix/replace the central unit of an old (but not exactly "ancient", this particular one was installed 2004 or so and was in production until 2014 or so) telephone switchbox/PBX, manufacturer Bosch/Tenovis/Avaya .

The thingy is programmed/configured via a serial through a proprietary configuration software.

The technician had a (high end) HP notebook running Windows 10 that was used only to run an XP virtual machine in which the Avaya software ran.

He told me that he has also a 7 VM on the same netbook because other proprietary software was too new for XP, ran in 7 just fine, but for some reason didn't run well directly in 10.

So basically he had this (I repeat, very high end) powerful machine running 10 only to be able to run either XP or 7 in virtual machines.

jaclaz

 

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As you all will see I have changed my profile to show Windows 10 x64. And yes...most of you know why I started this thread...but because of restrictions för bank tasks via older versions of Windows I was forced to update....

But it is still CRAP!:cheerleader:

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  • 3 weeks later...

Nice to see some of the old guard still around here - hi folks!

xpclient, I have Not found that anything about Win 10's virtualization logic has been helpful since I've been using VMware for a long time.  I get all the virtualization I need from VMware - which works quite well.  As far as I can see all Win 10's virtualization tech has done is make the system much less efficient at other, normal things.  Honestly, other than a bit of polish here and there (e.g., Win 10's tendency not to make you reorganize all the icons on your desktop quite so often when monitor layouts change) I can't say it's doing more for me in any part than Win 8.1, which in turn just tidied up and polished what Win 7 did, ad nauseum.

I have a pretty good feel for how much computing it takes to get whatever done, having lived and used computers since the 1970s.  I did an instruction execution count / MIPs comparison not long ago.  Back around 1980 a big PDP-11 minicomputer booted up in a few minutes as I recall.  Given the power difference between that system back then and a modern microprocesor now - not even counting multiplicity of cores - to execute enough instructions to boot up that PDP-11 would take much less than 1 second.  And in fact I know some folks who, for whatever reason, have software emulators for those ancient systems, which run the old RSX-11M Plus OS MUCH faster than back in the day on purpose-built hardware.  We should be getting a LOT more done with these modern machines.  Yet we can all feel the sluggishness in the desktop.

Just dragging files around (or e.g. unzipping a big archive) in WIndows has gotten horrendous.  Delete one file on solid state storage and get a progress bar?  In my day job I move 2 GB zip files around a fair bit.  It's how we package things.  To unzip one of these big files (yes, I still think of 2 GB as big) with Windows Explorer takes something like half a minute.  7-zip from the command line takes literally 1/10 that - i.e. 3 seconds.  No lie.  And that's running in Windows 10 with a file system so bloated that it can't even read/write files at anywhere near the speed my hardware can actually support.  Since when did I/O storage get faster than CPU/RAM?  Ridiculous! 

Win 8.1 delivered some rearchitecture of the desktop, and sure enough things got less "sticky" than with Win 7.  If you started something long - oh, I dunno, maybe an unzip operation - you could do something else useful instead of the desktop just getting stuck.  But now we seem to be back to that.  I've had several cases where Explorer just became unresponsive - on this monster workstation.  It's sickening.  I need to be able to multitask freely - it's the nature of my work.

And...  From the Is the Grass Really Greener department, part of my job responsibilities involve using Macs also.  I've received Big Sur updates on several of my systems.  MacOS is going the same way - loaded down with gunk, it turns a reasonably fast system into a slower one.  Ugh!  Sorry for any Unix/Linux afficionados out there, but that architecture has NEVER been better than Dave Cutler's VM system design, yet the commercial companies using both seem to be layering on so much BS that neither seems like it will hold the weight.  And for what?  So they can sell client-server model computing again?

I was comparing some benchmarks made on my circa 2012 high-end workstation with PCIe 2.0 running Win 8.1 vs. this big new 2019 tech model with PCIe 3.0 running Win 10, in which I have a seriously powerful GPU...  Even though I had resurrected Aero Glass with Big Muscle's tool on that older system - and NOT on the newer one, see for yourself which did Fonts and Text rendering faster...  Red is the old system.  No way 9 year old tech should be able to outpace modern tech.  The OS is the problem.

ScreenGrab_CarboniPC_2021_01_23_162103.png

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Test #1:

How much GDI has slowed down in newer versions of Windows 10 

Test #2:

Test #3:

Finally he posted the test itself for you to test it on your physical hardware if you have different versions installed in multi-boot configuration on the same hardware:

https://github.com/ADeltaX/REGDI/

Edited by xpclient
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GDI was considered a "legacy" product since around when Windows 8 came about. Even in the lead up to Windows 8, it was in their pre-release plan to get rid of GDI entirely and replace it with some other thing which I forgot the name. Their focus is now currently on DirectxD related APIs and it does not surprise me in the least that something like GDI has been mostly left to rot away.

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'Meet Now' icon on Taskbar:  Use 'Remove the Meet Now icon' option to get rid of it.  Using Run, type in gpedit.msc       Local Group Policy Editor comes up.  Under User Configuration, select Administrative Templates.

Then select Start Menu and Taskbar.  Under Start Menu and Taskbar, select Remove the Meet Now icon.  Under Remove the Meet Now icon, select Enabled, then Apply and OK.

Close the Editor.  Restart, the icon 'Meet Now' will be gone.

This procedure came from an Online search.

 

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On 1/27/2021 at 3:53 PM, Tripredacus said:

GDI was considered a "legacy" product since around when Windows 8 came about. Even in the lead up to Windows 8, it was in their pre-release plan to get rid of GDI entirely and replace it with some other thing which I forgot the name. Their focus is now currently on DirectxD related APIs and it does not surprise me in the least that something like GDI has been mostly left to rot away.

but isn't this clashing with itself ?
i mean win10 when can't and/or doesn't use GPU "powered" DWM (D3D), uses CPU "powered" mode, which is GDI no ?

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