Read GPT hard disk on Windows XP

[Cixert]

On 8/24/2023 at 9:30 AM, jaclaz said:

Now, if you compare the GPT partition tables (as seen by gdisk p) created by the SAME tool on the SAME OS once when connected via USB and once via SATA, then maybe we can find out what the base issue(s) is(are).

jaclaz

 

I'll try to do the comparison with Gdisk in a few days.

Now I'm running other tests.
"Paragon GPT Loader 10.5.0.95" actually installs the 8.0.1.0 drivers, the same as the original Paragon GPT Loader 8.0.1.0.

However, I confirm that "Paragon HFS for Win v.10.5.0.95", the MAC system reader, also installs GPT on Windows XP with drivers updated to version 10.5.0.95 and seems to fix many issues from the previous version.

The problem with the blue screen with Paragon GPT 8.0.1.0 on Windows XP SATA (no problem on USB hard disk) I have solved it by installing "Paragon HFS for Win v.10.5.0.95".
Then, since I use FAT32 on the Windows XP partition, I have modified the registry
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\gpt_loader

Changing the ImagePath value:
system32\DRIVERS\gpt_loader.sys
by
system32\DRIVERS\GPT_LO~1.SYS

So I have rebooted and Windows XP has read the GPT HDD installed on the SATA port.
I am writing and correcting the advances to work with GPT disks from Windows XP in this post and the next one:
https://msfn.org/board/topic/181911-read-gpt-hard-disk-on-windows-xp/?do=findComment&comment=1249360

However, of course, I have a problem.
The 6 TiB hard drive has 6 exFAT partitions but on Windows XP it is only able to read data from the first 2 partitions, which have more than 280,000 files.

This happens with both, the Paragon GPT driver and the Windows 2003 driver.

The only difference between these partitions, is that the ones Windows XP recognizes, have been defragmented with various programs since Windows Seven.

On the other hand, I comment that when starting Windows XP "autochk" verifies the partitions that it later reads correctly and says that the ones it does not read are RAW.

I also point out that CHKDSK from Windows XP does not work with exFAT partitions.
And that no Windows operating system defrags exFAT partitions, so I have to use third-party programs.

Regarding your comments about the limits, I say that there are no 5 TiB hard drives with 3.5", they are all 2.5".
And that the limits on Logilink adapters are imposed by the firmware.

From what I have been able to verify, Logilink is a brand located in Germany that does not really manufacture these adapters. The old adapters are made by a different manufacturer than the new adapters, although externally they appear the same.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Cixert

[jaclaz]

Very good finding about the version of the Paragon GPT included in the HFS thingy. 

17 hours ago, Cixert said:

Regarding your comments about the limits, I say that there are no 5 TiB hard drives with 3.5", they are all 2.5".

I am not sure to understand, the WD50EZRX does (or did?) exist:

https://www.disctech.com/Western-Digital-WD50EZRX-5TB-SATA-Hard-Drive

About exFAT, yes, I am not much familiar with that filesystem, but Defraggler and UltraDefrag should be able to defrag it (there may be many more third party tools capable of that) since it is a not a very common filesystem and support on XP for it was  added as an afterthought I wouldn't be surprised if there is a "main" version of it (that XP can access just fine) and some later versions or sub-versions (that in some cases XP has trouble with).

The defragging (by this or that third party utility) may well make the filesystem backwards-compatible with the version supported in XP.

jaclaz

 

[Cixert]

5 hours ago, jaclaz said:

Very good finding about the version of the Paragon GPT included in the HFS thingy. 

I am not sure to understand, the WD50EZRX does (or did?) exist:

https://www.disctech.com/Western-Digital-WD50EZRX-5TB-SATA-Hard-Drive

About exFAT, yes, I am not much familiar with that filesystem, but Defraggler and UltraDefrag should be able to defrag it (there may be many more third party tools capable of that) since it is a not a very common filesystem and support on XP for it was  added as an afterthought I wouldn't be surprised if there is a "main" version of it (that XP can access just fine) and some later versions or sub-versions (that in some cases XP has trouble with).

The defragging (by this or that third party utility) may well make the filesystem backwards-compatible with the version supported in XP.

jaclaz

 

Heh heh, I knew you would find the exception that proves the rule.
Sorry to be so categorical, I want to make incremental copies, so after 4 TB I wanted 5 TB. In Spain I did not find any 5TB 3.5" disk.
Even the large external drives I've seen have a 2.5" hard drive inside.

I think that these days I have tried all the defragmentation programs and unfortunately I do not like any of them. I don't want to optimize the files on my hard drive, I just want to defragment and compact the free space like the Windows tool does. But all programs seem to insist on doing special things or just defrag or compact with fragmentation.
It seems that none defragment and compact in less than 1 day.
Maybe Deflagger but in 12 h. goes for 3%
IObit Smart Defrag says to do it and fast, but then I check that it doesn't do what it says.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Cixert

[jaclaz]

Yep, but you are roughly 99% right, 5 TB 3.5" disks are rare, they seem to "jump" from 4 to 6+. 

There is still (only for the record) the good ol' poor man's way of defragmenting (you won't like it, as it needs an extra hard disk).

Back in (good ol') NT 4.00 times there was no defragmenting program included in the OS, and what I used to do was to copy all the files to another hard disk, delete (or even re-format, depending on cases) the "main" hard disk volume(s) and then copy back all the files.

Of course it took (and would take given the size of your volumes and number of files, notwithstanding the increased speed of devices and buses) "forever", it is a lot of time since I did any test of speed, but if I recall correctly,. the throughput of imaging a disk should be between 150 and 400 GB/hour (with some particular fast programs on extremely fast devices topping at 600 GB/hour) , and copying should be much slower than that.

jaclaz

 

 

[Dave-H]

Sorry to bump, but I have a problem with a 3TB disk I've just bought to replace by old 2TB archive disk, which is showing signs of dying.

The drive is in a StarTech external enclosure, but connected by eSATA, not by USB.
The eSATA connection is via a Silicon Image add-in card.

I have formatted the drive as GPT using Windows 10, and it works fine there, although I'm getting occasional errors in the event log -
"The IO operation at logical block address 0x5bc5e0 for Disk 4 (PDO name: \Device\Scsi\SI31121Port5Path0Target0Lun0) was retried."

I'm not sure if that indicates a problem or not.

The main issue is with Windows XP of course.
I have installed Paragon HFS for Win v.10.5.0.95, which seems to be working OK.
However, although the disk appears correctly in Device Manager as a disk drive, and shows no errors unless you try to populate the volumes on it, it does not appear at all in Disk Management, so I can't assign a drive letter to it.

Anyone any idea why that might be?
Thanks, Dave.

[Dave-H]

@jaclaz @Cixert

Any input here?

The only thing apparently wrong with the HFS installation is that I'm getting an error message on every boot in the System Event Log.

It says that "The Core Storage Volumes Driver service failed to start due to the following error: 
The system cannot find the file specified."

I don't know what that service is supposed to do, I can't find much information about it.
The strange thing is, what file can't it find?

Its registry entry points to system32\drivers\csvol.sys and csvol.sys is present and correct in that folder, where you would expect it to be.
I have checked that it's the correct 32 bit version, and it is.

This is very puzzling, any help would be appreciated!
Thanks, Dave.

[D.Draker]

On 1/7/2024 at 3:36 PM, Dave-H said:

Anyone any idea why that might be?

I had this error long time ago, for me it was the dodgy (wobbly) eSata cable.

"Faulty SATA or power supply cable", but in this case also could be the compatibility issues of the new controller with XP.

https://appuals.com/fix-the-io-operation-at-logical-block-address-for-disk-was-retried/

 

[D.Draker]

See? It tells you "was retried", meaning it could be finished in the end, but failed to do at the first attempt, is there another cable and PSU  you can try? 

What does Ultra ATA CRC Error Count tell you? (HDD sentinel)

 

Edited January 9 by D.Draker
(HDD sentinel)

[jaclaz]

On 1/7/2024 at 3:36 PM, Dave-H said:

I have formatted the drive as GPT using Windows 10

No, strictly speaking, you haven't.

You partitioned it as GPT or - even better - you initialized it as GPT.

Then you created one or more partition(s) or volume(s) in it, and then formatted this/these partition(s)/volume(s).

 

9 hours ago, Dave-H said:

@jaclaz @Cixert

Any input here?

 

The sector address you are having an error with is not very high 0x5bc5e0 is 6.014.432 which multiplied by 512 (sector size) makes 3.079.389.184 bytes offset, it doesn't seem connected with the size of the disk.

Anyway, if you haven't already done so (i.e. if you have now only one huge 3TBish single partition/volume), I would try to make two partitions on that disk, the first one within the 2 TiB/2.2TB limit, and a second one for the rest.

This should eliminate or reduce possible conflicts with this (or that) 32 bit limit, at least for the first volume/partition.

About the HFS error, if a find is not found and if the service doesn't start, not a surprise that it doesn't show in Disk Manager.

You will have to trace with filemon or procmon to find which file is missing/is not found (if any).

 

Edited January 9 by jaclaz
corrected, I missed a "not" and better expressed the idea

[Dave-H]

Thanks @D.Draker and @jaclaz

10 hours ago, jaclaz said:

No, strictly speaking, you haven't.

You partitioned it as GPT or - even better - you initialized it as GPT.

Then you created one or more partition(s) or volume(s) in it, and then formatted this/these partition(s)/volume(s).

Sorry, yes of course, wrong terminology there, I'm very good at that if you remember! 

The enclosure is a high quality one and not that old, so I would be very surprised if it was that, also the eSATA cable was replaced recently with a new good one too.
The same hardware worked fine with the previous 2TB disk.
I'm hoping the error message I was seeing has now gone away, I updated the driver on the eSATA interface card, and I hope that's fixed it.
This was only on Windows 10 of course, so actually off-topic here. I only mentioned it in case it gave any clues.
The main problem is getting XP to see the drive at all in Disk Manager!

It could be because the Core Storage Volumes Driver isn't running, but as I said, I have no idea what that driver actually does.
I will investigate with FileMon and Process Monitor as suggested.

If I don't get anywhere with that, I will try formatting with smaller partitions and see if the disk is then seen.

Thanks again for the responses.
Cheers, Dave.

[Dave-H]

OK, back again!

I now know what the problem is, but I don't know how to get around it.

I didn't get anywhere with diagnosing the problem with the Core Storage Volumes Driver.
Process Monitor and File Monitor didn't reveal anything relevant, at least not to me.

However, it turns out that that driver isn't needed anyway, so I guess I will just disable it in the registry and forget about it.
It may be needed when reading HFS formatted disks, but I think I'm very unlikely to ever need to do that.

Using smaller partitions made no difference either.

The problem turned out to be the drive enclosure connection.
I tried connecting the disk directly to the motherboard, and it all works.
I can see and use the whole 3TB partition, so the Paragon driver is working fine.

This is strange, because connecting the disk using the eSATA connection in the caddy works absolutely fine in Windows 10, and indeed the alternative USB connection works fine too.
Exactly the same hardware configuration doesn't work in XP though, Disk Manager can't see the disk at all.

I obviously don't want to use the disk physically mounted in the machine, the whole point is that it's an easily removable archive and system backup, which I can grab if there's a fire!
Can anyone think why it would work in Windows 10 and not XP? I will see if I can find a later driver for the interface card.
It's not as if XP isn't seeing the disk at all, it is. It appears in Device Manager fine, just not in Disk Management!

[D.Draker]

3 hours ago, Dave-H said:

The problem turned out to be the drive enclosure connection.
I tried connecting the disk directly to the motherboard, and it all works.
I can see and use the whole 3TB partition, so the Paragon driver is working fine.

Yes, like I wrote, those cables/connections are just bad, they don't make good cables anymore. I had a case (which is very common now), the cables were made from aluminium with only a bit of copper coating! Such cables degrade very fast.

 

[D.Draker]

3 hours ago, Dave-H said:

This is strange, because connecting the disk using the eSATA connection in the caddy works absolutely fine in Windows 10, and indeed the alternative USB connection works fine too.
Exactly the same hardware configuration doesn't work in XP though, Disk Manager can't see the disk at all.

I have an answer for this, too, starting with Vista - Windows has a much better error handling overall, computers working with faulty RAM sticks isn't that uncommon, not to mention cables.

But if your Ultra ATA CRC Error Count climbs up, you need to replace the cable ASAP, don't copy the files with that cable.

[ED_Sln]

On 1/7/2024 at 9:36 PM, Dave-H said:

"The IO operation at logical block address 0x5bc5e0 for Disk 4 (PDO name: \Device\Scsi\SI31121Port5Path0Target0Lun0) was retried."

Is that a Silicon Image SiI 3112? It's very old and even with 1TB disks it has problems. I had such a controller, 750GB disks worked without problems, but 1TB disks were sometimes lost. And if I connected both 750GB and 1TB disks at the same time, both were lost.

[jaclaz]

9 hours ago, Dave-H said:

The problem turned out to be the drive enclosure connection.

I tried connecting the disk directly to the motherboard, and it all works.

No, not really.

If you connect the disk directly you bypass a number of things, including the connector, but also the enclosure controller and/or the e-sata card you may have on your PC.

If a connection (intended as EVERYTHING is between A and B) works with a given OS BUT does not work with another OS it is NOT an issue of the cable or of the connector, it is an issue with the software (driver of the controller or *something else*).

You have three different layers of possible incompatibility:
1) the disk partitioning style (that is NOT supported in XP if not through the Paragon software)
2) the disk size (that may or may not be supported by the OS)
3) the driver of the controller and/or of the add-on e-sata card (that may or may not in the version for XP have the same capabilities than the version for 10), I have seen you posted a reference to a (pseudo/virtual) SCSI path: \Device\Scsi\SI31121Port5Path0Target0Lun0 and Scsi devices are known (not necessarily it is your case) to have drivers using 32 bit-limited Scsi commands.

If the enclosure has an external power supply, you could try one of these simple cables:

https://www.startech.com/en-us/cables/esataplt18in

(of course if you have a free sata port on the motherboard)

jaclaz