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b0070

Windows 98SE on G965 with 6600 and 6600GT

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Posted (edited)

Hello,

I currently work on dual machines due to nature of my work, 1 is a retina imac and the other windows 10 with i5 and 1660TI both systems maxed out on rams and hdds. I have couple of computers more and my home/office runs on a file/media/Automation server 24x7 with wired network on cat6 and wifi hotspots. BUT...

Out of Nostalgia, I am building windows 98 cpu(S) and i did not have all the components so i went out and got these (half of them are in shipping from around the world) so please suggest anything that you think will help. I will keep everyone updated here on the progress.

HW coming in and present:

MOTHERBOARDS:

   GIGABYTE GA-945GCMX-S2 refurbished

   ASUS P5B-VM 2pcs NEW

   SRARE MOTHERBOARDS: Intel DG31PR , Zebronics G41 and ICH7 with pciex16 and 1x ports, ami bios, i got windows 98 running on this for experiments

PROCESSORS: P4 3.2 and 3.0 NEW tray, from last generation, C2D E8400, C2D E7500 Both refurb.  /edit: added E5800

GRAPHICS CARDS: All on PCIe, 6600 vanilla X 1pc, 6600 GT with arctic cooler, 6600 GT with asus silencer cooling, the one that has turnable heat sink  /edit: added 6800 vanilla

HDD: ADATA SU - 120GB (formatted 40 and 80gb and 256 (for winxp dual))

SOUND CARD: SB0240 Audigy 2, one more spare card that is no brand but works on windows 98 

RAM: simtronics 1GB x 2 sticks at 800mhz DDR2, NEW. Spare 2 sticks of 1GB each.

SATA DVD writer

Monitor: 17 inch 4:3 LCD Samsung, will get 19 inch 4:3 Dell?

OTHERS: elite 361 cabinet was spare, so using it (update: switched to a bigger case  for a more airy build, from coolermaster). The asus silencer does not fit, so waiting for the arctic cooler model, working with open case till then. PSU is corsair 550CV, SATA to IDE converter, SATA><IDE two way converter, 2X pci 1x lan cards that have win98 drivers, GOTEK floppy emulator, darn cannot find a floppy connector, hope it comes with motherboards that are on the way.

I have read the forums and understand that i have to use non official chipset drivers and do some patching.

Edited by b0070
added info

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For the monitor I recommend a 19" 5:4 1280x1024.

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TVs make better monitors, they have better low lights : - not too dark and mostly are cheaper. A DVI to HDMI cable may be necessary with modern TVs so make sure the video card has a DVI output as the 15 pin D socket does not always work though to a HDMI port. Alternatively you can use an old TV. GeForce 7900 graphics is a big step forward over the 6600 but 6600 is OK from what you have explained with the heatsink.

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@jumper: Yes, thank you, i will get a new Dell 19 then!

@Goodmaneuver: Thanks, I like the 4:3 kind of ratio for the old retro look, I have couple of TVs but i am ok with a 19 inch i guess. Part of the reason is that i want the early 2000s or late 90s wallpapers in their native look. I have tonnes of collection on CDs from my old webshots subscription, I still have webshots subscribed today (but now they make new software all new "not that good" wallpapers are widescreen) I just love their old wallpaper collections from 99-2002!

So the Intel board and zebronics i tried as the others are in shipping. Intel DG31PR turned out to be crap but the zebronics G41 based one worked as expected. No sound and one exclamation on PCI bus. 6600GT works well, but as there are no other pci slots i cant really use this board beyond the experiments. USB works and nvidia control panel works well. When i try to do a dxdiag test on 9.c that i installed, the 9 version draw tests crawl to a freeze so no go there. Rest everything including SATA disks etc are good. Shutdown was not working but now works. Using guru3d driver.

Waiting for the new boards from a Poland reseller. Same company sold me the 6600 but crazy people here at customs charged me so much, the whole thing with shipping and duty now cost me as much as a 1050Ti !! I dint care because the money goes to the gvt. and they are doing some good things with it, so considering its gone for good cause. I am sure they will rip me again for the 2 asus motherboards that are coming in a day or 2.

anyhow. I am not worried about DX performance, but maybe it will be different on 965 chip. I will be installing games on windows xp disk. there are drivers for that there, so no worries. I am thinking windows XP 32, what do you suggest? I have plenty of keys from my MSDN subscription for xp and 7 and they still work fine.

Meanwhile i also ordered 3 noctua fans and some high end thermal paste to reapply the cards and mobo chipsets, also got some alchohol to clean but the reseller has cleaned them well for the refurb parts. The GT6600 silencer is sitting at around 60 degree C, which i feel is high? I don't remember the average card temperature from those days.

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Posted (edited)

Update:

got the Asus P5B-VM-SE boards, 1 came with cpu pins bent and no IO shield, ordered shield from another seller. Otherwise ok condition, sent and got pins repaired. Paired one board with E5800 C2D and other with E8400 C2D. Installed Windows 98SE and all patches with SP3. Installed WinXP on second SATA 3d Nand HDD. Disabled sound and Lan for 98. using 6800 GT and Guru3d Driver in 98se failed in dxdiag draw tests in fullscreen. Winxp tests worked fine. Turns that the guru3d driver has some issue. Extracted 81.98 drivers and replaced the nvaml.ini with a patched one that includes device iD and it works flawless.

3d marks 2000 gave me more than 37000 points!!

Next steps:

Waiting on the other 6600GT, vanilla 6800,  vanilla 6600 card and soundblaster sound cards (audigy and audigy 2). Lan works in xp, dont need in 98! infact dont need in xp i dont want to go online with this machine, this is just for old games.

but i have 2 pcie 1x lan cards win98 compatible if i need.

waiting for noctua fans to close the elite 361 and gotek floppy cable on way.

in win98 i have missing pci device driver and sata drives show exclamation with compatibility mode. will see how to fix

still, ordered an iDE hard disk just in case.

your thoughts?

 

Edited by b0070
update

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Posted (edited)

Well, i had the Asus P5B Deluxe, looong time ago.

As it is quite some years ago, take my "hints" with a grain of salt... and your board is a bit more limited than the P5B Deluxe, being a tad bit older, as far as i know.

The Audigy and Audigy 2 are the best choice, bar none.

Check the Device-ID of the LAN, maybe drivers exist. My P5B board had a W9x-compatible LAN.

I used Windows 7 on that board as well, but gave it away thereafter. I read of people using a P5B Deluxe with Windows 10, but that board had an ICH8R, while yours has the ICH8 (without "R"), which is a problem under W10 (many modern SATA-options are not supported). If i were you, remembering how cumbersome it can be to run W10 on such an old system, i'd stay with XP and W9x, or, at best, consider a modern 64bit Linux system.

Experiements to consider:

(1) CPU:

I ran my P5B Deluxe with an Intel C2Q 9550S, which was the latest and most advanced Socket 775 CPU. That one would only run with FSB 1000 instead of 1333 on the P5B-VM SE, but that is true for your C2D CPUs as well, correct?

Under XP a C2Q will be a bit more responsive, which might, or might not, help some games when run on XP, while, of course, that won't make a difference on W9x... :)

As you don't use the internet, there is no need for Antivirus Software (not that it would help much, given the loss of support from most vendors). More cores were important for that, as Antivirus taxed those systems a lot. So, in the end, having just two cores on XP will probably still suffice.

(2) Storage:

Using a plain SATA II HDD of a maximum of 128 GB (even better: 32GB) might give you a hassle-free start on W9x. SATA III devices can be a problem, sometimes, see below.

I use IDE-SSD on IDE-ports for ever - i think transcend still sells the Transcend Industrial PSD330 32GB, IDE (TS32GPSD330) -, which make such a system so much more fun. You would need an adapter, though, as they have a 44-pin IDE port.

If that is a good idea, is an entirely different question, for this reason:

To get rid of the "compatibility mode", i vaguely remember to have disabled the SATA-ports of JMicron JMB363, at least the SATA-ports, first, but it might have included the IDE-ports as well.

Reason: I don't think there is a "good" driver for the JMB 363 for W9x, if any exists at all, and that controller is prone to send your system to compatibility mode, even without any device attached.

You don't have SATA-ports on the JMB on your board, as far as i can see at Asus. Might be worth a try, if nothing else helps (many SATA DVD-drives won't work in compatibility mode), at the price of loosing the IDE-ports.

I think that using SATA-SSDs is possible, although i would try this with a cheap exemplary, not bigger than 32GB, as some are definitely not compatible with that chipset anymore. I have some SATA II SSDs lying around that worked, and at least one SATA III SSD that didn't. On more modern controllers, like on AMD 970, all SSDs (including the mentioned SATA III example) work under W98SE, but that is not your situation. I used a PCI controller with combined SATA I and IDE support for such scenarios. Experiment at your discretion... ;-)

(3) GPU:

Another experiment worth the effort, once your system is stable, is using NVidia GPUs of the 7xxx series instead of the 6xxx series, which are either much faster, or, at the same speed, produce less heat (and use less power, but ignore poweruse, as you won't use that system often enough to make that count). They are therefore much easier to handle (i.e. some don't need a PCIe power cable), and can all be cooled passively with good aftermarket coolers. I prefer the 7600 GT 256MB, which combines the speed of a NV 6800, no PCIe power cable needed, passively cooled with ease.

But only consider using the 7xxx Series, if your monitor is Full HD, as only at high resolutions that speed advantage is worth the effort. On the other hand, you use an inf-modded driver anyway, so it might not be too difficult for you... and under XP there are games that will make good use of anything up to a GTX 980 Ti, so "Faster is Better" (tm) under XP... :-D

I played i.e. Half Life 2 and a heavily modded Stalker on that P5B Deluxe system, and also BG2 with a widescreen-mod. All of that ran better on XP than on W9x, for several reasons, but that is something you can find out yourself now... ;)

--------------------------

Generally speaking, i sympathize with your intention to use that system for old games, as that mirrors my interest in W9x.

 

Have fun!

 

Edited by ragnargd
typos

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Posted (edited)

ragnargd : Thank you for taking the time to explain a lot of things, i really appreciate it!!

 

The JMB is a pain, it does not detect drives connected with IDE>SATA converter etc. I am using adata SU650 drives 2 of them. 1 is 120gb for 98 and 240 for windows xp, 120 is divided into 40-80 and the 80gb one i am using to put data, drivers, games dump so if i want to format again, that is there with the 98 setup and everything. The sata drives work fine and boot very fast but show in compatibility mode. There is no compatibility mode in BIOS for drives to put them into IDE but i am not facing any disk issues so i dont know if i want to do anything? your suggestions? Its showing in fifo mode in device manager in 98. with xp its all working fine.

Processor i am using is c2d E8400 for this build and i have more as stated above, even p4 at 3.0 and 3.2. The problem i have in processor is it showing as 2.4 ghz instead of 3.0

My 6600 GT was working fine and i swapped with 6800 vanilla, it performs a bit better. As i have now 2 pcs of 6600GT, 1 6600 vanilla and 1 6800 vanilla, i am pretty set on this series (reason why i chose this is because easy install as its native 98 drivers blocked artificially perform flawlessly and also back in the day i was drooling to get a 6600 but dint have the time and money) i got 33000 marks in 3d marks 2000 with it. all games run fine and no crashes so far touchwood! Also, no external power connector on these cards as they are PCIe and only agp models of these need external power.

I got 2 of these asus boards from refurbisher and they are in good shape. so sticking with them for the 775 build.

Meanwhile to get really native old windows 98, i purchased 2 boards of socket 370 and pentium 3 processors again 2 pcs along with half a dozen graphics card lot with riva tnt 2 pro and mx400 and 9200 and then got radeon 9600 along with 6600nvidia agp. i plan to build this new system for just windows 98. I do not have ide disks so thinking about ide to cf card adapter as its native ide. your suggestions? i dont know if my sata>ide converters will work but i will try those too.

in the end i want to have these 2 machines, 1 high performing and 1 older native 98.

Appreciate your reply!

Edited by b0070
update

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3 hours ago, b0070 said:

I am using adata SU650 drives

Be sure to backup those frequently. We had a several boxes of them at work - most of them quickly died and returned for warranty replacement...

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@RainyShadow: Thank you, i will do that and see what happens with these. All data on these is first downloaded on my main pc so i will keep a copy there based on your advice. This is the first time i am using these. On my main computer i have WD drives both flash and spinning.

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On 6/24/2020 at 8:06 AM, b0070 said:

your suggestions?

My suggestion is to get an MSATA SSD and an MSATA to IDE enclosure.

What I use in my Windows 98 PC:

Transcend MSA230S

MSATA to IDE enclosure

SinLoon 2.5" to 3.5" IDE adapter

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On 6/25/2020 at 10:19 PM, Ximonite said:

My suggestion is to get an MSATA SSD and an MSATA to IDE enclosure.

What I use in my Windows 98 PC:

Transcend MSA230S

MSATA to IDE enclosure

SinLoon 2.5" to 3.5" IDE adapter

Thanks for the suggestion, this part looks very interesting and nice to buy. If you are using on your system maybe it will work on mine too. When I tried using 2 different sata to ide adapters, the dreaded jmb controller onboard did not detect any devices. maybe this this will get detected if i can find it locally. I also ordered ide to cf card adapters for the socket 370 build i have taken up separately.

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>>ragnargd : Thank you for taking the time to explain a lot of things, i really appreciate it!!

My pleasure

>>The JMB is a pain, it does not detect drives connected with IDE>SATA converter etc.

I used such adapters, but stopped it, as i had problems to fixate cabling and the drives, quite often resulting in instable or non-booting systems.

>>I am using adata SU650 drives 2 of them. 1 is 120gb for 98 and 240 for windows xp, 120 is divided into 40-80 and the 80gb one i am using to put data, drivers,
>>games dump so if i want to format again, that is there with the 98 setup and everything.

Looks like a sensible distribution, i'd keep that.

>>The sata drives work fine and boot very fast but show in compatibility mode. There is no compatibility mode >>in BIOS for drives to put them into IDE
>>but i am not facing any disk issues so i dont know if i want to do anything? your suggestions? Its showing in fifo mode in device manager in 98.
>>with xp its all working fine.

Only under 9x the JMB was a problem for me, with XP it was fine.

Most people here try to get rid of the compatibility mode, but if it has no negative impact for you, just keep it.
For me it was a problem, as my optical drives went invisible once even one drive on the machine was in compatibility mode, so it stopped me from playing some games that depended on a optical drive.
If you don't have that problem, just change nothing.
Do you have any specific problems?

>>Processor i am using is c2d E8400 for this build and i have more as stated above, even p4 at 3.0 and 3.2. The problem i have in processor is it showing as 2.4 ghz instead of 3.0

As i said, that is not a "problem", but the limit of your hardware, namely the limited frontside bus (FSB).
But, at the same time, the C2D is still fast enough even at 2.4GHz, so just ignore the issue.
Your machine is no less stable, and even produces less heat. I ignored that issue as well in the end.

>>My 6600 GT was working fine and i swapped with 6800 vanilla, it performs a bit better. As i have now 2 pcs of 6600GT, 1 6600 vanilla and 1 6800 vanilla, i am pretty set on this series
>>(reason why i chose this is because easy install as its native 98 drivers blocked artificially perform flawlessly and also back in the day i was drooling to get a 6600 but dint have the time and money)
>>i got 33000 marks in 3d marks 2000 with it. all games run fine and no crashes so far touchwood!
>>Also, no external power connector on these cards as they are PCIe and only agp models of these need external power.

I can relate to your arguments, so, if i were you, i'd also keep it at that.

>>I got 2 of these asus boards from refurbisher and they are in good shape. so sticking with them for the 775 build.

Sounds good.

>>Meanwhile to get really native old windows 98, i purchased 2 boards of socket 370 and pentium 3 processors again 2 pcs along with half a dozen graphics card lot with riva tnt 2 pro
>>and mx400 and 9200 and then got radeon 9600 along with 6600nvidia agp. i plan to build this new system for just windows 98.
>>I do not have ide disks so thinking about ide to cf card adapter as its native ide. your suggestions? i dont know if my sata>ide converters will work but i will try those too.

I have no experience with cf adapters, and, as i mentioned, did not have good experience with any other adapters. At this, you will probably be the first to find out, and here at MSFN we hope you will report... ;-)

(search the MSFN forum, there are mixed experiences with CF, but from long time ago, many CF kind of worked, while others did not. But those that worked tended to be slow, and very often too small. If you have the hardware already, just try. Before you invest money, better read).

>>in the end i want to have these 2 machines, 1 high performing and 1 older native 98.

Most of my old installations died because of hardware failure.
So, i refrain from keeping old hardware for nostalgia, as rather sooner then later they perish, and i don't want a broken heart... ;)
I try to work only with hardware that is as new as reasonably possible. But don't let that be an argument for you.
I stick to 98SE, as it is the most compatible for the old games, and that is my (only) motivation.

>>Appreciate your reply!

I appreciate you efforts on W9x!

  • Upvote 1

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ragnargd: Thanks for the reply again....

I replaced the processor with E5800 and that fixed the FSB and its running at 3.2ghz now. i did not disable the second core and its not an issue with 98, just runs one core and when i boot into xp it uses both. in 98se i got a boost in 3d marks. So now out of all the parts this machine is running on c2d 3.2ghz with 2 ssds and one DVD-drive. The dvd does not work in 98 as it shows non atapi in bios. its LG M-disc the proper retail one, and i have that in all my computers but 98 does not like it. I have 2 ide drives on order but i dont think i will need optical drive as most cds i have made iso and mount in alcohol/daemon tools. So yes just like you my optical does not work in 98se. it works well in xp though. i tries using it with ide adapter and all, but no luck. so let it be.

I understand you logic behind the broken heart :-).

Let me say a few things about it: i have backup hardware, so i usually buy in 2-3 pcs to keep failure insurance. I keep all hardware in my office, in proper office trays. It is a low dust and low moisture, temperature stable place. I think the biggest enemy of HW is moisture, dust and heat. Yet i have solder station, multi meters and electrical repair stuff in case i need in future lol :-D.  I have leased out a few shops to mobile repair people and they can usually fix things in case i dont have time. Still, if things fail its ok, I am a spiritual person and dont get too attached to things. I am getting old but i really like to keep memories, i have stocked up a lot of nintendo stuff, an xbox gears ice edition, a switch, all games that i like. I have 2X3ds xl, 2 new 3ds and 2 new 3ds LL japan import and some joycons, controllers etc etc etc.. And yes i plan to build an arcade machine too.

In my earlier life i have been a L1, L2 and L3 tech, a tech manager with IBM and dell for 12 years in total.  Now i am 40 and i plan to be done with work in about 5-7 years. I don't get enough time to play and i am currently designing a game for release. I want to get over with all work and retire early and go live in my own resort in the forest or the mountains. All this (literally old garbage :-D) that i accumulate, i will keep in a big room and remember my old life and have fun and kill some time... maybe invite some friends once in a while for party sometimes! I know it sounds odd but nostalgia is all that drives it i guess.

One reason i stayed away from socket 478 is because i think there was more capacitor plague at that time than the socket 370 or 775 which are more durable overall. About further testing on windows, i will get some time and try the cf cards and the socket 370 stuff once i get the packages and keep posting details of how it worked out. Why i want to try cf card is because its natively IDE interface and most compatible with ide interface. Do keep in touch!

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, RainyShadow said:

@b0070

Wow, man, you seem to be doing what i wanted to do...

 

Thanks @RainyShadow

I Wish your wishes come true! :)

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