Using real-mode (aka "DOS")-LAN-Drivers in W98SE?

[deomsh]

Regarding Windows, best take a look at the Oemsetup.inf  and the .nif-files files that come with the different RT*ND.DOS drivers. Realtek offers four different ones,  *=E, G, M or S. As I have only Android next thee weeks (holidays), I cannot do much 

[rloew]

I did some further experiments with a RTL8136 Revision 7 NIC.

For reasons that are unclear, RTGND.DOS reported an internal error with the RTL8136. So you need the RTEND.DOS Driver File for the RTL8136.

The NetrtgRM.inf file can be edited by replacing 8168 with 8136 everywhere and replacing RTGND with RTEND everywhere.

[jholt5638]

Not using that card but I wanted to confirm that DOS ODI drivers do work in 95C. The card I'm using is the Broadcom 4401/B0 chip. the only extra steps before install I had to do was add the driver B44.com and support file LSL.com and optionally ODIPKT.com to the Autoexec.bat and during the setup select existing ODI driver.

[pangoomis]

Hi there!

The NDIS2 drivers consist of OEMSETUP.INF and the .DOS file for your network card.
You install it via the Network Control Panel, adding an Adapter, and then using the Have Disk button pointing to the INF file (not with Device Manager).

Sadly, there's no guarantee that it will work, NDIS2 drivers are very, very picky. They also slow down the boot time, as they are loaded using the "net start" command that Windows 98 adds automatically to AUTOEXEC.BAT, before the OS is actually loaded.

That's the way it can use the NDIS2 drivers, they were meant to be used under DOS.

[ruthan]

I read posts above, but im really unsure how Dos driver is connected / reused in Windows 98.

Its quite a long time when i used MS Net driver working in DOS, im usually using packet drive + mTCP is much simpler.

Im trying to make Broadcom Netextreme II 5708 working in Windows 98. I made to work Broadcom Netextreme I - 5703 and Broadcom 5721 in the past, but i have not found working driver for 5708, i have found quite and lot supposed Windows 98 driver for it, but in driver is allways mentione W9x.cat file or there is used -  b57w2k.cat from Win2k, which without is not included, i dunno if these drivers are just fake, or i dont understand something.

 I dont fully understand how Broadcom 5708 driver is working, because in more modern OSes have 2 parts - some system device with Broadcom 5708 name and 5708 Network card, maybe its some server remote control thing or its support device and both has to work together. Netextreme I does not behave like this.

  So i decided to try to make Dos driver working in Windows 98. 

  I managed to get lan card detected by broadcom *.dos driver is able to run by these in autoexec, i had to use lsl.com, because without it i got error, that is not loaded..
C:\NET\LSL.com
C:\NET\Bx2.com  // LineSpeed is regocieted 
+
C:\NET\net start

  In config is this:
device=C:\NET\protman.dos /I:C:\NET
device=C:\NET\Bxnd20x.dos

but in Windows ping etc is not working: When i try to add netbind - as i saw in some tutorials, im getting error:
C:\NET\net start netbind
Error: 5745: The protocol manager could not find protman.exe, try to removing any currently installed protocols and adding them again.
 I copied protman.exe and other files from Windows 98 in C:\Net and its in the path.

  Where is a problem:
 - there is a lot possible variables to comment and uncomment in Net.cfg 
- same with protocol.ini
   So it needs someone who understand it more, or some good tutorial, because try one by one, seems like a lot of work and it not guarantee to make it working, its possible that more than 1 parameter is needed.  

  When i tried to add NDIS driver through Control Panel->Network as is supposed above it seems that its only rem Network line in autoexec and config,
i have Network card in the list of system devices, but Network panel is empty.

  Here are are my C:\Net files except those from MS, because of licencing, but i have these files copied into C:\NET

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/kqlad994wa6znelyqj30a/DellServer1950-Win9x-Net.zip?rlkey=49704e3h1h7t9j951azezot5v&dl=1

Best i have found is this info:

https://www.tek-tips.com/threads/ndis2-driver.784895/

also found on Win98 CDROM \tools\reskit\setup.exe or the...\help\98Rkbook.chm [?] (2-3mb)

more text from MS;

"Overview of Network Adapters"
Chapter15
Real-mode NDIS 2 support.

An NDIS 2.x protocol under Windows 98 must use an NDIS 2.x network adapter driver. Both the protocol and network adapter drivers must load and bind in real mode before Windows 98 runs. Values in Protocol.ini are used to load the real-mode NDIS drivers, as described in Chapter 16, “Windows 98 on Microsoft Networks.” However, you still use the Network option in Control Panel to configure NDIS 2 adapters.

When you run a real-mode network, Windows 98 uses NDIS 2 versions of NetBEUI and IPX/SPX protocols. These protocols are not intended for everyday use, since Windows 98 supplies faster protected-mode versions of these protocols.

Windows 98 also supports existing ODI drivers with Novell NetWare – compatible network clients. For information, see Chapter 17, “Windows 98 on Third-Party Networks.”

=>  
1) DOS driver to be loaded in DOS.
2) Protocol.ini is used, but nothing about its parameters details.
3) Its needed to add Network control panel device.. But im not sure that for Particular part, or just use generic Existing NDIS2 driver option.
4) Im not sure if NeBEUI and IPX/SPX are just optimal, or not, there is nothing about TCP/IP. Does that part about them means, that if get TCP/IP working that i can add classic not real Dos mode IPX and NETBEUI versions?
5) Bind is needed to make it working - my problem.
6) Not info about NET.CFG, maybe / probably its only for the part which i already make it working.

 It would be handy if someone who made it working can just upload working settings, change for other cards, should not be too hard.

I have found some tutorial from Rayer for Win9X too, but there is not netbind and some parts like skip network are not clear, it means probably to setup start step by step and not run some part of configuration, but it be tricky and leads in blue screens, especially if you dont have Windows 98 CD ready when Windows are trying to setup network:
https://www.bttr-software.de/forum/board_entry.php?id=22118
  Its translated by DeepL so it could contain errors:

1) Control Panel|Network|Configuration - remove the old adapter "Realtek RTL8168/8111 PCIE-E Gigabit Ethernet NIC"
2) in Device Manager, remove existing network adapters
3) Control Panel|Network|Configuration - Add|Adapter|Add|Existing NDIS2 driver|From floppy disk
and point the path to OEMSETUP.INF and let it copy the necessary files from the Windows installer (PROTMAN.DOS is needed), reboot
4) after reboot, skip the network detection
5) a new disabled network adapter "RTL8168/8111 Family Gigabit Ethernet Adapter" will appear in Device Manager
Enable the device, on the Driver tab click on Update Driver|Next|Show list of all drivers|Existing NDIS2 driver|From floppy disk
and show the path to OEMSETUP.INF, let it install "RTL8168/8111 Family Gigabit Ethernet Adapter"
from %TEMP%\~oem095B.WIN point the path to RTGND.DOS and let it copy the necessary files from the Windows installer, reboot
5) after reboot, skip the network adapter detection
6) in Device Manager, remove the "RTL8168/8111 Family Gigabit Ethernet Adapter" network adapter, reboot
6) in Device Manager, remove the "RTL8168/8111 Family Gigabit Ethernet Adapter", reboot
7) after reboot, when the network adapter is detected, select the driver from the list|Network Adapters|Show All Devices
select the manufacturer "oem" and "RTL8168/8111 Family Gigabit Ethernet Adapter",
let it install from WINDOWS\INF\OTHER\~OEM095B.WIN
and copy the necessary files from the Windows installer, reboot
8) After successful installation, the PROTMAN.DOS and RTGND.DOS files should be in the WINDOWS directory,
in AUTOEXEC.BAT line C:\WINDOWS\net start,
in Device Manager, one entry Network Adapters|RTL8168/8111 Family Gigabit Ethernet Adapter
with the NDIS.VXD driver and the Resources tab, and in Control Panel|Network|Configuration
also 1 item "RTL8168/8111 Family Gigabit Ethernet Adapter" (NDIS driver for real mode)

Here is original source, you can use own translator:
http://www.rayer.g6.cz/hardware/gap67ds3/ndisinst.txt

Its linked from here - there is some intro: http://www.rayer.g6.cz/hardware/gap67ds3.htm#WIN98_NET  and  http://www.rayer.g6.cz/os/os.htm

Edited June 5 by ruthan

[SweetLow]

You need the Windows .INF in addition to NDIS2 or ODI driver binaries. It's pretty easy to do it yourself.

This is my .INF for Broadcom "NetLink (TM) Gigabit Ethernet" (PCI\VEN_14E4&DEV_16B5)

http://sweetlow.orgfree.com/download/b57_w9x.zip

You shoud add your device PCI ID (and name if you need some other name) in appropriate sections.

Edited June 5 by SweetLow

[ruthan]

Thx, i have to use wayback machine to download it, for some reason.

I made mod of this it was only slightly different DEV iD and added new F_NAME3 variable :
PCI\VEN_14E4&DEV_164C&SUBSYS_01B31028&REV_12 ; im using only start of it and ne name defined bellow
%F_NAME3%=k57.ndi, PCI\VEN_14E4&DEV_164C   ; I hope that only start of string  without SUB.SYS**  its enough
 and defined new name at the end:
F_NAME3 = "Broadcom NetExtreme II 5708 Gigabit Ethernet"

 Other interesting thing is that *.cat file line is disabled so seems to mandatory.

  Now im only confused, when i have to use this file, before i used oemsetup.inf. 
I will try to fiddle with it, i have now much more informations, but some details are still a bit fuzzy..  

Here modified package with Broadcom 5708 added from the future preservation, just expanded by 1 more card - untested:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7z9oled5ah31wy8x19uqd/Broadcom-CustomMade.zip?rlkey=wumyr8jikte76od7iflxul2wi&dl=1 

[ruthan]

Ok i have tried these, but it seems that no ODI or NDIS driver like my 5708.. im sure that i had still some errors in configuration, but b57 driver (not NDIS not ODI, seems to be not compatible) in config should find card at least as other driver which im using..

  What is nice with this solution is once i add card driver through Device manager, Network manager has all components its not empty. When i tried to add it through network manager, i got info that this plug and play card is not in my machine.

Edited June 6 by ruthan

[ruthan]

Hurah, i won, thx for help. 
I used Rayers method its restart Fest, but its working.

Some notes:
- its really strange way
- used NDIS2 driver for Netxtreme II and everytime pointed install to it
- its adding nothing into Config.sys - it is some driver loaded here its mess with other settings, so all its from Windows conf files or registry
- at  the start of autoexec is added around step 5 - C:\Windows\net start // So no binding
- in restart after step 5, system already added net start, i had to disable it, otherwise system so freezing
- you have to select no classic vendor like Realtek, Broadcom etc.. from list of Network adapter's by OEM vendor and name of the card
- skipping means skipping network card detection after Windows logon
- after step 7 i had to enable C:\Windows\NET start line
- at step 8 - got classic Windows network logon screen and ping its working, all files seems to be loaded from Windows directory, so you can ignore C:\Net even you loaded drivers files from it.
  In device manager is Network card as any other normal one, its using C:\Windows\System\Ndis.vxd, driver date has date of installation
  Network panel also looks normally Network card neme, Windows network client and TCP/IP

   You have to now how to do it, because ist overcomplicated and not intuitive way, if someone actually invented this Workflow he was mad, im quite sure that it would be possible to do it with 1 or 2 restarts... 
  In future maybe someone can use Filemon,Regmon etc, to find out what magic is happening create some Installer.

  I will make partition backup before experimenting with File sharing with modern Windows etc.. Im not sure if its is supported or not. I worst case i will use FTP client for it.

Proven drivers:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5iza1z3eqerpvgafljok1/BroadcomNetXetreme-NDIS2-Win98-Proven.zip?rlkey=brh0bf67be3lfd76ytp6laxsi&dl=1

Edited June 6 by ruthan

[SweetLow]

3 hours ago, ruthan said:

 You have to now how to do it, because ist overcomplicated and not intuitive way, if someone actually invented this Workflow he was mad, im quite sure that it would be possible to do it with 1 or 2 restarts... 

The only things you really need are .INF, NDIS2 binary and 1 reboot. Windows do the rest as it natively supports NDIS2.

[ruthan]

Its sound nice in the highlevel, so can you make some shortened guide how to do it exactly?

[ruthan]

Ok i have tried all normal things like remote desktop FTP, access to Windows 98 share from modern Windows (10) all worked, but the most important thing - access from Windows 98 to Win 10 does not work..

  I may have some mess with User accounts- ater account recreation / renaming, because unattended install or l etc, but i doubt it.. 
     I simply get bluescreen when i add these keys to Registry to Win98:

REGEDIT4

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Lsa]
"LMCompatibility"=dword:00000003
"LmCompatibilityLevel"=dword:00000001

 - i proven it with other machines that works for Win98 access to Win10 (After NTML version lowering it Windows 10)..
- When i select cancel on the logon screen instead for network password login, i get not bluescreen..
  I had tried to create entirely new user - but its the same..

   Other someone could be able to tell from bluescreen text, its its networking related (VNETUP - looks very like it, press to continue freeze and N or Y settings is not wokring - maybe because of USB keyboard).. its some kernel / update mess, bluescreen text is:
Invalid VxD dynamic link call from VREDIR(01) + 000071BE to device "VNETUP", service 8.
  Your Windows configuration is invalid. Run the Windows Setup program again to correct this problem.

To continue running Windows press Y, to continue to run Windows without this problem press N. If you continue system may be unstable.
  
  Question is could Win10 filesharing works with Windows 98 - 16 bit drivers? Its ancient, but yeah its working from Win10 to Win98.. And if my memory servers for MS-DOS too there are would be probably the same 16 bit driver too.. - im not sure how NTML collaborating Windows 16 bit NDIS2 driver, maybe you need higher version for it.

  Other option is that i need some unofficial networking patch for it etc.. I dont really remember which packages installed on my machines where, it is working, so far it not verified it from the scratch..

  There are some contradicting tutorials how to make Windows 98 to Windows 10 access working (some hinting to delete all LM** keys).. I have installed SSH server on my Windows 10 machines, so i can use WinSCP or Total COmmander plugins, but this its not as good as vanilla Windows network folder access..

  What is interesting this settings is working even when Windows 98 filesharing network component is not installed, but maybe this component is only need for access to Windows 98 share (Description seems to imply it) - i never had much interesting in networking details.

BTW 7 years ago i did detailed MS-DOS to Win10 networking analysis guide, it could be handy for someone, or someone can enhance it, there also soft of unknow variables. As im not detaily user of these ancient stuff and had not good memory, i dont remember everything from top of my head.
https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=61823
  

I will report more incompatible Programs if will find them here:
- ThightVNC server 1.3.10 - Generate boot bluescreen (there not any driver or service names, just some generic memory values/adbress numbers mess), so far it did not tried to other VNC server, or move net start command in the autoexec, its started at the start.. but suspect that the end of autoexec its still before VNC server driver /service is started, so it will not help..

Edited Saturday at 05:45 PM by ruthan