Windows 10 - First Impressions

[Formfiller]

So the $64 question is:

 

Is this the shape of things to come with the Win 10 "upgrade" for both Win 7 and Win 8.1 users who have not hidden all the "updates to enable the upgrade to Windows 10"?

 

-Noel

 

It all depends how much sanity is left at MS.

 

If they force W10 on Windows 7 especially the backlash will be frigging huge. Do they still have some brain left to realize this though? That's the key question.

 

Here's the config.xml file for the nag-screen in full length:

 

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-security/suspicious-new-folder-windirsystem32gwx/e3661a2f-93f5-4d7c-a83f-2fcc25ed7ac2

 

Apparently ít's strictly aimed at home users ("DomainJoined":false, "EnterpriseSKU": false) and the ad-phase begins apparently when it hits RTM.

Home users are the group which can protest the least..

Edited April 21, 2015 by Formfiller

[jaclaz]

Home users are the group which can protest the least..

 

BUT, strangely enough, they also represent the ONLY ONES that actually bought/are using Windows 8/8.1, as the Enterprises are traditionally slower to change an OS (as this will often include changing the hardware) and right now, set aside the few ones that are still clinging to XP, are en masse still using Windows 7 on non newly acquired hardware and many also on newly (last two years or so) acquired devices, exception made for new stupid tablets (please read as "Surface Pro" 1, 2 and 3 and similar) that however didn't seemingly sold that well (in absolute terms and even worse in the Enterprise market).

 

jaclaz

Edited April 21, 2015 by jaclaz

[TELVM]

Did you guys know that the Windows 8.1 update was brute-forced on Windows 8 users? ... ...

 

Attention to this paragraph from Ed Bott    :

 

"... The big question is how many consumers and small businesses will say yes to the free Windows 10 upgrade, and how quickly. Several recent data points suggest that close to nine in 10 PCs running Windows 8 have updated to Windows 8.1. Getting Windows 7 holdouts to upgrade might not be as easy a sell ..."

 

http://www.zdnet.com/article/get-windows-10-microsofts-hidden-roadmap-for-the-biggest-software-upgrade-in-history/

[NoelC]

Clearly any future I have with Windows lies with Enterprise if these are the kinds of differences that are being built in.  I always wondered whether/when they'd differentiate Enterprise more from the "casual user" systems.

 

-Noel

[JorgeA]

Apparently, one key to NOT getting this Win8.1 sneak-upgrade is to hide the update KB2871389, as discussed in some of Formfiller's original links. Check out this discussion at bleepingcomputer.com.

 

This update will (probably) not be displayed if you do NOT have kb2871389 installed, without KB2871389 one does not (in my experience)receive any updates which try and force the user to upgrade, nor does one get annoying prompts to do so. I have not seen this listed in the updates i have been offered. I would suggest to those wishing to prevent forcible upgrade that you remove KB2871389 and hide it, this should stop KB2871389 ever being offered and prevent either KB2973544 or KB3008273 (both of which appear to have attempted forced upgrades on some people) from even being offered, let alone installing.

From what i can tell KB2871389 is technically a compatibility update, one designed to improve compatibility between 8.0 and 8.1, only once it is installed are KB3008273 (which i have heard of before and noted down on my desk notebook paper as being "questionable and best avoided"), KB2865699 (which seems to offer the annoying but non-forced "upgrade now or remind me later" prompts) and KB2973544(which has forcibly upgraded users of 8.0 to 8.1 with an "upgrade now or in 4 hours" prompt) offered.

 

Keeping in mnd that the above discussion started in February, consider this prescient comment:

 

 I would not be surprised in the least if Microsoft dropped such an update to hundreds of millions of Windows 7 Home Premium consumers when the time arrives or shortly before.

 

 

Microsoft has now gone from at first making it impossible to move from Win8 to Win8.1 without having to enter the Windows Store, to running Win8.1 past users when they're not looking. Careening from one extreme to another. 

 

--JorgeA

 

 

 

 

[JorgeA]

Similarly,

 

It was only the other week or so, lacking data on my limited internet connection- I decided to switch into the slow ring to delay build 10041 downloading and using precious bandwidth.

 

Reading some of the bugs in that build, I was pleased at my choice. Until the reboot one week later. It was pushed into the slow ring and silently downloaded onto my system.

 

Then the reboot thay may be requided (lol) 

and lo,

 

"Missing Operating System"

 

Seems my system that has gone from Win8 and every test build upgrade process perfectly -- now failed.

 

This is a perfect illustration of why IT IS A VERY BAD IDEA to force-feed OS "up"grades on users.

 

A Win8.1 user less technically savvy than ralcool, who received the fruit of Microsoft's generosity in, say, 2016, would have been up sh*t's creek.

 

Multiply that by a few dozen (or hundred) million, and we see the magnitude of the mess that Microsoft is obliviously walking into.

 

--JorgeA

[Formfiller]

Wow, I have again quite the forum fight on Channel9:

 

http://channel9.msdn.com/Forums/Coffeehouse/These-Windows-10-adwarepreloader-patches-are-packaged-with-important-security-updates-JUST-WTF

 

I started with a weak premise and got into defense mode. Then I unleashed the artillery however (the forced 8.1 upgrade). Stuff gets shriek at this point.

[jaclaz]

Well, with all due respect (though I understand how your nick over there is wastingtimewithforums), you are wasting time with forums.

There is seemingly no way the good guys over there can understand how depriving anyone of choosing (in an informed way) what to do or what to not do is a form of depriving them of a degree of freedom.

 

But, going only very slightly off-topic, in the past there have been quite a few issues with upgrades, particularly on specific hardware, and the good MS guys have historically attempted to brush off critics stating how the issue was limited to a small number of very peculiar hardware combos and that it is materially impossible for them to test an upgrade on every possible make/model of device, something that makes sense, and as a matter of fact it is one of the arguments often used when someone points out how usually Apple updates do not create the same kind of issues, since Apple produces BOTH the hardware and the OS and thus has to carry on a limited number of tests and has the possibility to catch any possible bug becayse the number of scenarios are pretty much limited.

 

The good MS guys adopted the same strategy for a (seriously botched) Windows 8.1 Phone recovery (to go back from testing a Windows 10 release), but they seemingly forgot how in this case the hardware was as well MS :

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/04/20/windows_10_phone_unbricking/

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/insider_wintp-insider_repair/lumia-520521devices-unusable-after-using-windows/c5d072d5-c26e-4a02-907d-fde2ca5e34c7

 

Please note how UNOFFICIALLY they had to admit that a (small ) number of devices cannot bear the normal transfer speed (that other devices work fine with) and the "solution" is a recovery tool that transfers data (much) slower.

Which translated in plain English means there is a (small ) number of defective or however below standard devices we sold you, they cannot be identified  and we have no intention whatever to replace them with working ones, we will simply dumb down some parts of the tool to be able to deal with these slower devices.

 

Worse than that the statements:

Before we re-enable the update path from WP8 to Windows 10 Technical Preview for these devices, we will be reaching out to users to do a bit of additional real-world testing. Once we’re confident in the results, we’ll turn the update path back on for these devices.

 

are (to me) terrifying as they imply that till now NOT ENOUGH real-world testing was done and that they are NOT CONFIDENT in the current results of tests up to now.

 

jaclaz

Edited April 21, 2015 by jaclaz

[NoelC]

I just get tired of interacting with people who refuse to believe things could be "that bad".

 

It doesn't seem that Microsoft is going to change one thing based on people noticing their evil ways.

 

Perhaps we should all be egging them on, telling them (like all the dweebs are) that it's a Wonderful Thing how they're giving everyone free software, then sit back and watch the lawsuits pile up.  Maybe even criminal cases.

 

-Noel

[Formfiller]

Well, with all due respect (though I understand how your nick over there is wastingtimewithforums), you are wasting time with forums.

There is seemingly no way the good guys over there can understand how depriving anyone of choosing (in an informed way) what to do or what to not do is a form of depriving them of a degree of freedom.

 

 

 

I just get tired of interacting with people who refuse to believe things could be "that bad".

 

 

 

Yes it is.

 

It's now almost a research project I have with them. Just how much crazy will they accept from MS?

 

I am astounded they started to defend the heavy forced 8.1 upgrade there.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Formfiller

[Tripredacus]

Well, stopping your PC from being automagically updated to Windows 10 sounds fairly simple at this point.

Build a cheapo-pc or a VM, install a Server OS on it. Make a DC, join your clients to the domain.

[dencorso]

Isn't it easier to just disable automatic updates, and then decide which updates to apply?

[Tripredacus]

We can presume that is an option... but since it appears they have removed the "download but let me choose what to install" option, we can't guess at what the final product will look like.

[NoelC]

Isn't it easier to just disable automatic updates, and then decide which updates to apply?

 

Many complaints have been raised by insiders about not being given enough control over updates.  But Microsoft silently pushes on with their "mother knows best" strategy, no matter how "engaged" they claim to be with insiders.

 

At this point I have my Windows 10 test systems' group policy settings configured that I should be asked before anything is downloaded, and that seems to be working as far as it goes.  I've figured out how to have a Start Menu entry that immediately jumps to Windows Update in the Settings App, so I seem to be somewhat in control, BUT...  It's still all the pending updates or nothing.

 

On that note...  I see some 21 new "Optional" updates have shown up for Windows 8.1 today.  Clearly whatever part of Microsoft makes Optional updates isn't dying off.

 

-Noel

[Formfiller]

Aha, NuMicrosoft being at it again:

 

http://www.infoworld.com/article/2911704/microsoft-windows/ie-11-patch-kb-3038314-blocks-adding-search-providers-install-may-fail-with-error-80092004.html

 

We don't know the full extent of the problem yet, but it appears the latest Internet Explorer patch prevents Internet Explorer 11 -- and possibly other versions of IE -- from installing Google and other search engines. And the problem may go beyond Windows 7 SP1 and Windows 8.1 Update 1 PCs.

 

 

This company is plain predatory now. Way worse than the 90s "monopoly"-MS.