Bootable Floppy Image Works On CD But Not On DVD

[LoneCrusader]

Did you used mixed case ISO9660 names previously?

Did you used two independend filesystems? Upper cased ISO9660 names and mixed case Joliet names?

Since I was using graphical tools, I never paid attention to these settings. All I know is that they worked, without any bizarre errors.

As the manpage indicate -iso-level 4 map to ISO9660:1999.

ISO9660:1999 allows mixed case ISO9660 names.

Mkisofs print a warning if you request a -iso-level 4 file system.

Mkisofs preserve case:

a upper case name from the OS goes to a upper case ISO9660 name

a lower case name from the OS goes to a lower case ISO9660 name

The user requested this behaviour by selecting iso-level 4

If this is the case, I believe (I may be wrong) the problem may have been the fact that Windows 98 automatically displays file names in lowercase except for the first letter.

The OS case names are preserved at iso-level 4. I don't know normal DOS conditions. Which DOS do you use?

Whichever one is standard in 98SE. 7.0 I think.

I don't think so.

Mkisofs is a very reliable application.

Trash input result to trash output. Good input result to good output.

My input was specifically stated above. What was wrong with it?

We are back at broken hardware.

I do not have broken hardware in multiple machines.

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But, JFYI, unless I am mistaken, under the terms of the contract I signed, I am in no way obliged to:

• answer all questions
  
• answer questions
  
• recommend (or NOT recommend) software
  
• attempt persuading anyone (or fail to) over anything
  
• prove (or fail to prove) ANYTHING
  

All I do is trying to see if I can help, but I will do it with my methods and at my own pace, take it or leave it, no offence intended, and no offence taken.

None taken. You are under no obligations, and I appreciate your help and suggestions. However, if you're going to make suggestions, I feel that you should be able to explain why you are recommending one thing over another. One can go anywhere on the internet and find an endless supply of opinions and suggestions, but if they cannot be backed up with good reasoning, they are worthless.

I am not implying that you could not back up your recommendations if you so desired.

I won't get involved in a flame war about MSCDEX.EXE vs. SHSUCDX.EXE or mkisofs vs magiciso or whatever

I have no desire to argue about these things either, I simply asked for an explanation of why you consider one to be better than the other and why I should use one over the other.

Now, back to the problem.

Let me see if we can sum up the original problem:

• you made a DVD that does not boot
  
• you made it with a custom floppy image
  
• you made it with MagicISO
  

The problem can be:

1. in your DVD hardware
   
2. in your custom floppy image
   
3. in MagicISO
   
4. in a PBCAK
   

My first idea was that it was MagicISO or the PBCAK .

I simply suggested a way to test if that was the problem, but you have a number of limits in your current environment:

• no VM
  
• no certainty about the DVD hardware
  

Yes.

Try doing yet another attempt with IMGBURN:

http://www.imgburn.com/

using these instructions:

http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?showtopic=1779

and your usual floppy image as boot image.

jaclaz

Why do I have a feeling this program might be a GUI for MKISOFS?

Just Kidding

BTW, it works now. No bizarre errors, long file names, short file names, all caps in DOS, MSCDEX functioning properly, JO.SYS booting properly, etc etc. MagicISO and Nero must have been the culprits, as both of them failed to produce a properly bootable DVD.

Edited February 14, 2010 by LoneCrusader

[cdob]

Since I was using graphical tools, I never paid attention to these settings.

Well, that's the drawback of graphical tools.

A user dosn't learn back ground knowledge.

My input was specifically stated above. What was wrong with it?

The mentioned input was correct.

But the file names are hard disk wasn't mentioned.

I asssumed upper case names.

Windows 98 automatically displays file names in lowercase except for the first letter.

Don't trust explorer view. The explorer does NOT view direcctory and file names at hard disk.

DOS winfile does show direcctory and file names at hard disk.

I do not have broken hardware in multiple machines.

Then there is another reason.

Broken burn application was mentioned already.

BTW, it works now

Congratulations.

Then it was the burn application. Yes ImgBurn is a very trustworthy application as for burning a image.

I'm curious: did you used the Win98 machine and ImgBurn?

[LoneCrusader]

Well, that's the drawback of graphical tools.

A user dosn't learn back ground knowledge.

This has definitely been a learning experience.

Congratulations.

Then it was the burn application. Yes ImgBurn is a very trustworthy application as for burning a image.

I'm curious: did you used the Win98 machine and ImgBurn?

Yes, I took a few files out of my ISO_Root folder so that the ISO would be <4GB for FAT32, but I also noticed that ImgBurn has the ability to split the ISO into multiple files I have not tested that particular item yet however.

Thanks for your help!

Edited February 14, 2010 by LoneCrusader

[dencorso]

First of all, I'm glad you've solved your problem and now has the working bootable DVD you sought!

I decided to keep out of the discussion in the last two days, so as to let it progress unhindered, because I firmly believe in "too many doctors have killed a king!", the purported last words of the Emperor Hadrian.

Now I feel I must add some comments, about one thing that remained unsaid:

I wonder what MSCDEX.EXE has done to you to get such an affection in return....

MSCDEX has NEVER ONCE failed to work for reading ANY OPTICAL DISC that I have wanted to use.

But it will, rest assured it will!

And while I agree with jaclaz:

I won't get involved in a flame war about MSCDEX.EXE vs. SHSUCDX.EXE

and I much less want to be the starter of such a flame war, I'll say that the reason for recommending quite strongly SHSUCDX is simply that it was written to be much more forgiving than MSCDEX, so that it can read many optical media that are beyond MSCDEX strict format requirements. Even if you don't feel like testing it right now, do have a copy of it in your toolbox, because, sooner or later, you'll find it quite handy. And because it's open source and very well documented (although you'd have to gather at least three versions to have access to all existing documentation: John McCoy's 1.4b, Jason Hood's 3.02 and Jack Ellis' 3.03E, which is the current one). And because it's still supported and actively developed (at least until last year).

[LoneCrusader]

First of all, I'm glad you've solved your problem and now has the working bootable DVD you sought!

I decided to keep out of the discussion in the last two days, so as to let it progress unhindered, because I firmly believe in "too many doctors have killed a king!", the purported last words of the Emperor Hadrian.

Now I feel I must add some comments:

I wonder what MSCDEX.EXE has done to you to get such an affection in return....

MSCDEX has NEVER ONCE failed to work for reading ANY OPTICAL DISC that I have wanted to use.

But it will, rest assured it will!

.....I'll say that the reason for recommending quite strongly SHSUCDX is simply that it was written to be much more forgiving than MSCEDEX, so that it can read many optical media that are beyond MSCDEX strict format requirements. Even if you don't feel like testing it right now, do have a copy of it in your toolbox, because, sooner or later you'll find it quite handy....

When that day comes I will be perfectly willing to give SHSUCDX a try.

I don't have a problem with any of the tools discussed in this thread except MKISOFS

In fact, I've had some ideas about using GRUB4DOS for another project, but I must find a way to use it to make a bootable ISO without having to use mkisofs, haha.

Anyhow, thanks for your help as well.

[jaclaz]

BTW, it works now. No bizarre errors, long file names, short file names, all caps in DOS, MSCDEX functioning properly, JO.SYS booting properly, etc etc. MagicISO and Nero must have been the culprits, as both of them failed to produce a properly bootable DVD.

To sum up, we now know that two apps "automagically" created a coaster on your particular setup and a third one "automagically" created a working DVD.

We don't know whether it was:

• a "glitch in the matrix" (which would likely not happen again/be reproducible)
  
• an incompatibility of some kind with the media
  
• an incompatibility of some kind with the hardware
  
• an incompatibility of some kind with your source file structure or whatever
  
• a PBCAK
  

So, we have not learned much, apart from something we already knew , that IMGBURN is a very dependable app.

In other words, the problem is solved , but we don't know WHY it happened, nor HOW it can be fixed should it happen again.

Can we count you in the basket of happy bunnies, now?

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showto...28727&st=10

jaclaz

[cdob]

I don't have a problem with any of the tools discussed in this thread except MKISOFS

Well Nero and MagicIso provided a non bootable DVD.

I understand the main difference was the burn engine.

What about writing the CD image to DVD with ImgBurn?

The true reason may be hardware still: burner firmware or media

A good burn engine knows burner firmware limitations and provide exceptions for certain firmwares.

Another question:

Does mscdex support a media greater 4gb ?

I've had some ideas about using GRUB4DOS for another project, but I must find a way to use it to make a bootable ISO without having to use mkisofs

Well you decline the most reliable ISO build engine.

Grub4dos search a file menu.lst. A file menu.lst is not MENU.LST.

This is case sensitive at ISO9660 and Rock Ridge. Joliet is not supported.

Use either a ISO9660 menu.lst or a Rock Ridge menu.lst.

There are three approaches:

1) Use a ISO9660 MENU.LST and a Rock Ridge menu.lst.

Mkisofs and MagicIso support Rock Ridge.

2) A file menu.lst is possible within ISO9660:1999.

First set appropiate case at hard disk to files and directories.

Build a ISO9660:1999 media.

MagicIso, Nero and ImgBurn support ISO9660:1999 too.

All previous mentioned tools support ISO9660:1999.

So does mscdex at given limitations: DOS (upper case) names only

3) Or patch grub4dos: change menu.lst to MENU.LST

Then you may use a ISO9660 name MENU.LST.

BTW:

Win98 can't read a 8.4gb ISO9660 file from DVD.

A 8.4gb file is within ISO9660 level 3.

[LoneCrusader]

To sum up, we now know that two apps "automagically" created a coaster on your particular setup and a third one "automagically" created a working DVD.

We don't know whether it was:

• a "glitch in the matrix" (which would likely not happen again/be reproducible)
  
• an incompatibility of some kind with the media
  
• an incompatibility of some kind with the hardware
  
• an incompatibility of some kind with your source file structure or whatever
  
• a PBCAK
  

So, we have not learned much, apart from something we already knew , that IMGBURN is a very dependable app.

In other words, the problem is solved, but we don't know WHY it happened, nor HOW it can be fixed should it happen again.

Can we count you in the basket of happy bunnies, now?

jaclaz

Yes I suppose I am a "happy bunny" now.

And I must thank you again jaclaz for another very good program recommendation (ImgBurn). I just wish we had taken this route to begin with.

Actually it may not be that difficult to reproduce, or maybe even to explain what was going on. This time I did pay attention to the filesystems settings during setup. The resulting DVD that worked had two filesystems - ISO9660 (Bootable) + UDF 1.02.

I do not claim to understand all of these different CD filesystems, however, we made references to Joliet in the MKISOFS command syntax, and it seems that Joliet was not used/required, but UDF was instead.

If any of you have questions about the resulting DVD, I'd be happy to try to answer them.

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What about writing the CD image to DVD with ImgBurn?

The true reason may be hardware still: burner firmware or media

A good burn engine knows burner firmware limitations and provide exceptions for certain firmwares.

Another question:

Does mscdex support a media greater 4gb ?

These will require further testing. When I get a chance, I will try to report back on these questions.

[submix8c]

JFYI (in case you didn't know)... In Win9x, there's an Explorer Folder Option "Allow Uppercase Filenames" that, if not set, displays/creates "Abc", as opposed to "ABC". In addition, in Windows, if only ISO is used on a CD, only ISO names will be displayed (uppercase, hopefully), and if Joliet is used, then the Joliet names will be displayed (ignoring the ISO "directory" on CD). For the purpose of Bootable Image, you need the ISO "directory", as DOS can't access Joliet "directories". This is true (AFAIK) for all bootable CD's (at least Windows). ...And I'm under the impression (?) RockRidge is not very useful for Windows.

Edited February 15, 2010 by submix8c

[cdob]

I do not claim to understand all of these different CD filesystems

That's the most importand part at a multi boot CD.

Choose filesystems and extensions required by integrated parts.

You can easily shoot yourself in the foot.

A simple filesystem change may prohibit booting.

it seems that Joliet was not used/required,

Yes, Joliet is not required for a windows installation.

but UDF was instead.

No, that's false. UDF is not required.

Mscdex dosn't read UDF. Installation dosn't use UDF.

UDF is a waste of space.

Remember you compare a ISO9660 (1988) media with another ISO9660:1999 media.

Another question:

Does mscdex support a media greater 4gb ?

After testing, yes mscedx does read a file at end of a DVD. A media greater 4gb is supported.

[LoneCrusader]

Well, I'm back again everyone.

After using my new DVD for several days, I have only discovered two odd problems.

I have found no problems with booting the DVD or with JO.SYS, etc.

I have found no problems accessing the DVD is DOS with MSCDEX or using any of the DOS tools.

I have found no problems with the DVD in Windows 98SE or Windows ME.

However, I am having a strange problem with the DVD in Windows 95C. In Windows 95, and only 95, some of the names of the files and folders are truncated (not like DOS with a ~, they just stop), and some of the characters in the names of the files or folders are changed, ( ex. & , ! , and a Space changed to _ ).

I have previously used a CD in Windows 95 that contained these exact same files and folders, with the exact same names, and they were properly displayed. What would cause it to be different now?

The second problem - VPC 5 will not capture the DVD or the ISO at all, but it functions in a real environment.

Edited February 27, 2010 by LoneCrusader

[dencorso]

I have previously used a CD in Windows 95 that contained these exact same files and folders, with the exact same names, and they were properly displayed. What would cause it to be different now?

It's probably a bug in CDFS.VxD... Try using the one from your Win 98SE installation instead (substituted by hand, the worst that can happen is it crashing windows, but then all you need to do is substitute it back).

[LoneCrusader]

It's probably a bug in CDFS.VxD... Try using the one from your Win 98SE installation instead (substituted by hand, the worst that can happen is it crashing windows, but then all you need to do is substitute it back).

Copied CDFS.VXD from 98SE (Which had a version number of 4.10.1998, guess it was not updated for SE?) and substituted it for the Windows 95 one (4.00.1112).

This resulted in the DVD Drive showing up as a "Removable Disk" like a USB stick in 98SE w/NUSB, and when I clicked on it said the drive was not formatted and it asked me if I wanted to format it.

EDIT: Obtained CDFS.VXD 4.00.1113 from MDGx, (Last version I could find a reference to for 95) this did not correct the error either.

Edited February 28, 2010 by LoneCrusader

[cdob]

I have found no problems with booting the DVD or with JO.SYS, etc.

I have found no problems accessing the DVD is DOS with MSCDEX or using any of the DOS tools.

I have found no problems with the DVD in Windows 98SE or Windows ME.

However, I am having a strange problem with the DVD in Windows 95C. In Windows 95, and only 95, some of the names of the files and folders are truncated (not like DOS with a ~, they just stop), and some of the characters in the names of the files or folders are changed, ( ex. & , ! , and a Space changed to _ ).

Windows 98 support UDF and list UDF names.

Windows 95 dosn't support UDF and list ISO9660 names.

What about nice ISO9660 names at DVD?

[submix8c]

...Also (using OSCDIMG/CDimage) using NO udf and "Use ANSI vs OEM" may work (not sure if equivalents are in other burning software, e.g Nero, but probably...). This prevents the "truncation" but provides a warning instead. Using OSCDIMG/CDImage, this provides a "pure" ISO (no Joliet) with the original file/folder names.

OSCDIMG=CDIMAGE (same functions).

imgpgm -l"label" -tMM/DD/YY,HH:MM:SS -g -h -c -b"x:\path\boot.ima" -x -o -oc -os -w1 -w2 -w3 -m "x:\srcpath" "x\tgtpath\isoname.iso"

Just make an ISO (with whatever Image Program), mount it (several freeware ISO mount software, including Virtual CD from MS), and look at it...

HTH

edit - Still working on solution to other topic(s) as well. Good progress...

Edited February 28, 2010 by submix8c