Bootable Floppy Image Works On CD But Not On DVD

[submix8c]

I added JO.SYS from the bootable 98SE CD

Uh-uh!!! (Probably) Won't work!!! Original is only (proabably) good for CD's. Have you tried the Bart's JO.SYS Replacement? Not sure if this will work, but hey (and I believe it WILL work)...

[jaclaz]

It also bypassed JO.SYS, which allows choosing to boot from the DVD or from the HDD. (I tried "chainloader /jo.sys", but it produced an error, said the kernel must be loaded first.)

I added JO.SYS from the bootable 98SE CD

Uh-uh!!! (Probably) Won't work!!! Original is only (proabably) good for CD's. Have you tried the Bart's JO.SYS Replacement? Not sure if this will work, but hey (and I believe it WILL work)...

Have any of you considered the possibility that JO.SYS (whichever version) is ONLY working on a "direct" floppy-emulation booting CD and that it won't work with grub4dos mapping, and that I intentionally gave the commands to bypass it?

Besides, with grub4dos it is ALSO unneeded:

http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?sho...=16980&st=5

jaclaz

Edited February 12, 2010 by jaclaz

[dencorso]

For what it's worth, if you chainloader (fd0)+1 instead of chainloader /io.sys, jo.sys will run, because it's called from the floppy boot sector.

[jaclaz]

For what it's worth, if you chainloader (fd0)+1 instead of chainloader /io.sys, jo.sys will run, because it's called from the floppy boot sector.

What the heck!

Good morning Monsieur de La Palice :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_de_la_Palice

That is EXACTLY what the menu.lst entry Lonecrusader used does (and that most probably creates the error), and that I suggested avoiding, (having command prompt working as a result)

jaclaz

[dencorso]

Hang loose, jaclaz!

Since nobody explained why JO.SYS didn't load, I did it. But after he did what you recommended, the DVD remained unreachable, and this gives me an idea...

@LoneCrusader: does your floppy image load MSCEDEX?

If so, do substitute it by SHSUCDX V3.03E, and let's see what happens.

[LoneCrusader]

I added JO.SYS from the bootable 98SE CD

Uh-uh!!! (Probably) Won't work!!! Original is only (proabably) good for CD's. Have you tried the Bart's JO.SYS Replacement? Not sure if this will work, but hey (and I believe it WILL work)...

It does work

On CD and on a floppy disk. All you need is the w98btfix.zip on that page you linked to.

Have any of you considered the possibility that JO.SYS (whichever version) is ONLY working on a "direct" floppy-emulation booting CD and that it won't work with grub4dos mapping, and that I intentionally gave the commands to bypass it?

.....

That is EXACTLY what the menu.lst entry Lonecrusader used does (and that most probably creates the error), and that I suggested avoiding, (having command prompt working as a result)

jaclaz

If this is the case then why did you not say that to begin with? And technically it is still NOT working, only partially working.

@LoneCrusader: does your floppy image load MSCEDEX?

If so, do substitute it by SHSUCDX V3.03E, and let's see what happens.

I don't mind giving it a try, but I have never once had a problem accessing a DVD with MSCDEX. I can read the DVD, I can see and navigate through all of the directories, and I can type DIR and list the contents of those directories, but I cannot get any programs to run.

@All

I apologize for it taking me so long to respond sometimes on this thread or to run new tests, I have several projects going on at once.

[jaclaz]

If this is the case then why did you not say that to begin with? And technically it is still NOT working, only partially working.

To begin with, why did you used a "customized" version of the floppy?

(without saying so, and I had to "extort" this info)

Anyone is wondering WHY in the suggested and referenced batch:

http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?sho...18045&st=25

I have written the following?:

::Following is the command line for mkisofs, if you want to experiment, keep the REMmed one

::and change the unREmmed one, so you will be able to easily go back

::The single setting that seems to affect the most the functioning of the CD is the ISO-LEVEL

::A setting of -iso-level of 4 seems to be needed on some PE builds

::A setting of -iso-level of 3 mantains compatibility with some programs

::Most notably CD access under DOS with "normal" MSCDEX (instead of the BETTER however SHSUCDX)

@dencorso

Nice to meet you again, Mr. de La Palice

jaclaz

Edited February 13, 2010 by jaclaz

[LoneCrusader]

To begin with, why did you used a "customized" version of the floppy?

(without saying so, and I had to "extort" this info)

No. Read my first post that started this thread.

Ive been in the process of making a Multiple Windows installation DVD, using an image of a custom boot floppy (DOS/WIN9X style, not 2K/XP style) to make the DVD bootable.

As for why did I use a custom floppy?

1. The original intent was to have a standard El Torito emulation DVD that would load the floppy image on boot.

2. I wanted JO.SYS so that I did not have to remove the DVD on each restart during an OS install or update install, or go and change a BIOS setting every time.

3. The CONFIG.SYS / AUTOEXEC.BAT menu was heavily modified so that I could just choose a number and install a given OS. I had created this prior to learning that for some reason my DVD does not work with standard emulation.

Here is what my floppy disk menu looks like:

Microsoft Windows Startup Menu

-------------------------------------------

1. Command Prompt with CD & DVD support.

2. Command Prompt without CD & DVD support.

3. Manage partitions with FDisk.

4. Run Partition Magic 8.05.

5. Run DriveImage 2002.

6. Run TestDisk 6.11.

7. Install Windows 95 C OSR 2.5.

8. Install Windows 98 Second Edition.

9. Install Windows Millennium Edition.

For example:

Choosing "Install Windows 98 Second Edition" starts the computer with CD & DVD support, creates the folder C:\WINDOWS\SETUP, copies all of the files in the \OPSYS\WIN98 directory on the DVD to that folder, and then calls SETUP.EXE from there.

This works perfectly on a CD, and I spent a lot of time getting it working, so I plan to keep using it.

Anyone is wondering WHY in the suggested and referenced batch:

http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?sho...18045&st=25

I have written the following?:

::Following is the command line for mkisofs, if you want to experiment, keep the REMmed one

::and change the unREmmed one, so you will be able to easily go back

::The single setting that seems to affect the most the functioning of the CD is the ISO-LEVEL

::A setting of -iso-level of 4 seems to be needed on some PE builds

::A setting of -iso-level of 3 mantains compatibility with some programs

::Most notably CD access under DOS with "normal" MSCDEX (instead of the BETTER however SHSUCDX)

jaclaz

I apologize for missing that when I read your batch file. However, I say again, why did you not just say this to begin with? I posted the syntax of the mkisofs command that I used, which included -iso-level 4. If you assumed that I was using a standard boot floppy, this would mean that I was using MSCDEX. You could have just said "-iso-level 4 does not work with MSCDEX."

Edited February 13, 2010 by LoneCrusader

[jaclaz]

No. Read my first post that started this thread.

Sorry I missed the part where you wrote:

"I am using a modified Windows 98 install floppy boot disk image using JO.SYS as El-Torito floppy emulation using MSCDEX.EXE "

Boy, do I hate these Romulan cloaking devices!

jaclaz

[cdob]

You could have just said "-iso-level 4 does not work with MSCDEX."

Well mscdex does work with "-iso-level 4", as long you use DOS names. That's upper case names.

SHSUCDX support lowercase ISO9660 names too.

Anyway it's unclear still: hardware or software.

Did you read the CD to a image and write a DVD so far?

Win98 Jo.sys does work at a floppy emulation 4.29gb DVD.

mkisofs -v -D -N -V WIN9XDVD -b floppy.ima -hide floppy.ima -hide boot.catalog -split-output -o WIN9XDVD.ISO D:\temp\WIN98

manpage

-split-output

Split the output image into several files of approximately 1 GB. This helps to create DVD sized ISO-9660 images on operating systems without large file support. Cdrecord will concatenate more than one file into a single track if writing to a DVD. To make -split-output work, the -o filename option must be specified. The resulting output images will be named: filename_00,filename_01,filename_02...

[LoneCrusader]

Sorry I missed the part where you wrote:

"I am using a modified Windows 98 install floppy boot disk image using JO.SYS as El-Torito floppy emulation using MSCDEX.EXE "

Boy, do I hate these Romulan cloaking devices!

jaclaz

Well, I did say those things, just not ALL in one post, or one sentence.

But you're dealing with a TOS Romulan, not one of those bastardized TNG Romulans, so I have some honor.

I very much appreciate your help and your expertise jaclaz, I think there's been a lot of miscommunication in this thread.

I'm going to go back to the basics on this one, and start by asking what should be a simple enough question to be able to get a definite Yes or No answer to, and should be able to verify with a simple experiment.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Is it possible to use a standard Windows 98 Boot Disk with standard El Torito Floppy Emulation to create a bootable DVD?

If the answer is Yes, I would greatly appreciate it if someone could actually test this for me and give me a detailed report on the process used, software/hardware/media used, and the results, as all of my tests have been unsuccessful. I would prefer to use this method, as it was my original intent. If I can get a standard floppy working this way, then I can work on finding out if my custom one works or not.

If the answer is No, then we can move on to discussion of MKISOFS and GRUB4DOS.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Well mscdex does work with "-iso-level 4", as long you use DOS names. That's upper case names.

SHSUCDX support lowercase ISO9660 names too.

Anyway it's unclear still: hardware or software.

Did you read the CD to a image and write a DVD so far?

Win98 Jo.sys does work at a floppy emulation 4.29gb DVD.

mkisofs -v -D -N -V WIN9XDVD -b floppy.ima -hide floppy.ima -hide boot.catalog -split-output -o WIN9XDVD.ISO D:\temp\WIN98

manpage

-split-output

Split the output image into several files of approximately 1 GB. This helps to create DVD sized ISO-9660 images on operating systems without large file support. Cdrecord will concatenate more than one file into a single track if writing to a DVD. To make -split-output work, the -o filename option must be specified. The resulting output images will be named: filename_00,filename_01,filename_02...

I know what standard DOS filenames are.

What is puzzling to me about this, is that I have created DVD's before using mixed case and length file names (of course the DOS files were only accessed in DOS and vice versa) and never encountered a problem like this.

It seems that MKISOFS and/or the -iso-level 4 option translated ALL of my DOS filenames within the ISO to lowercase, even though they showed up as uppercase before under normal DOS conditions. This is idiotic.

I assume -iso-level 3 will not do this? Or will it translate all of the lowercase names to uppercase?

This must be a "bug" (from DOS/Windows standpoint) somehow left over from MKISOFS being a Linux command, as Linux is case sensitive.

I stand by what I said earlier, MKISOFS belongs in the trash bin.

You say it is possible to use standard floppy emulation on a DVD. I'm very glad to hear that, (per my question above) could you please give a more detailed report on how it is done?

I read the CD that I had successfully created earlier using my custom floppy image and standard El Torito emulation to an ISO. Then tried burning it to a DVDRW on a different machine. Nero refused to burn it, ejected my DVDRW and requested a CD or CDRW. MagicISO burned it to the DVDRW and reported success, but the disc was unreadable on any system I put it in.

[jaclaz]

I very much appreciate your help and your expertise jaclaz, I think there's been a lot of miscommunication in this thread.

Not really, we're having some fun, that's all.

The problem is that you want to "lead" the discussion:

If the answer is No, then we can move on to discussion of MKISOFS and GRUB4DOS.

Which is allright, but doing so it will take longer than you might expect, mainly because you have your own opinions (which is good ) but some of them are based on assumptions or presumptions:

I know what standard DOS filenames are.

....

I assume -iso-level 3 will not do this? Or will it translate all of the lowercase names to uppercase?

This must be a "bug" (from DOS/Windows standpoint) somehow left over from MKISOFS being a Linux command, as Linux is case sensitive.

I'll astonish you telling you that DOS filenames on CD are NOT the same as the DOS filenames you know about (slightly).

If you want to take the RED pill, you should know that rabbit holes may be deeper than what you might think :

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~varun/cs315p/iso9660.pdf

Now you have 3 (three) willing helping members:

• dencorso
  
• cdob
  
• jaclaz
  

that are telling you, more or less:

dump that d@mn MSCDEX.EXE and use SHSUCDX instead!

to which you reply, again more or less:

no, thanks, I love MSCDEX.EXE and won't change it.

I wonder what MSCDEX.EXE has done to you to get such an affection in return....

jaclaz

[LoneCrusader]

The problem is that you want to "lead" the discussion:

....

your own opinions (which is good ) but some of them are based on assumptions or presumptions:

....

dump that d@mn MSCDEX.EXE and use SHSUCDX instead!

....

I wonder what MSCDEX.EXE has done to you to get such an affection in return....

jaclaz

If any or all of my assumptions are wrong, then feel free to correct me. I have said this before and have stood corrected by you before. Just be specific and explain WHY they are wrong.

You still did not answer the question that I asked.

You are leading the discussion, because you are trying to persuade me to use MKISOFS, GRUB4DOS, and SHSUCDX, without giving me an answer as to whether I can use a standard Win98 Boot Disk and standard El Torito emulation to do this.

I do not want to use ANY of these things if this project can be accomplished without them.

I seem to remember another thread where I asked you to recommend a specific program to do something, and you refused to do so. But now, you act as if MKISOFS, GRUB4DOS, and SHSUCDX are the only way to achieve this.

If they ARE the ONLY way to do this, then explain WHY?

MSCDEX has NEVER ONCE failed to work for reading ANY OPTICAL DISC that I have wanted to use.

I see no reason to change it simply based on someone saying "SHSUCDX is better."

If I followed this principle then I would be using Windows 7 because some id*** says that "It's better."

If it isn't broke, don't fix it. When it fails me under normal conditions then I will concede that you are correct. However, based on my experiences here, I do not consider anything created by MKISOFS to be "normal."

I might also add, that the first DVD that I created with MagicISO using the standard emulation CAN BE READ PERFECTLY with MSCDEX using a Boot Floppy to access it. It fails to Boot, but otherwise is PERFECT.

[cdob]

If the answer is No, then we can move on to discussion of MKISOFS and GRUB4DOS.

First I suspect hardware still.

What is puzzling to me about this, is that I have created DVD's before using mixed case and length file names (of course the DOS files were only accessed in DOS and vice versa) and never encountered a problem like this.

Did you used mixed case ISO9660 names previously?

Did you used two independend filesystems? Upper cased ISO9660 names and mixed case Joliet names?

It seems that MKISOFS and/or the -iso-level 4 option translated ALL of my DOS filenames within the ISO to lowercase

As the manpage indicate -iso-level 4 map to ISO9660:1999.

ISO9660:1999 allows mixed case ISO9660 names.

Mkisofs print a warning if you request a -iso-level 4 file system.

Mkisofs preserve case:

a upper case name from the OS goes to a upper case ISO9660 name

a lower case name from the OS goes to a lower case ISO9660 name

The user requested this behaviour by selecting iso-level 4

even though they showed up as uppercase before under normal DOS conditions.

The OS case names are preserved at iso-level 4. I don't know normal DOS conditions. Which DOS do you use?

Win98 command prompt:

A directory name "DirectX" goes to "DirectX" at ISO9660 name. The case is preserved.

I assume -iso-level 3 will not do this?

ISO9660 level 3 allows uppercase names only. ISO9660 names are upper cased.

This must be a "bug" (from DOS/Windows standpoint) somehow left over from MKISOFS being a Linux command, as Linux is case sensitive.

It's follow ISO9660 requirements. Feel free to read ISO9660 specification.

I stand by what I said earlier, MKISOFS belongs in the trash bin.

I don't think so.

Mkisofs is a very reliable application.

Trash input result to trash output. Good input result to good output.

I'm very glad to hear that, (per my question above) could you please give a more detailed report on how it is done?

I used a Win98 SE OEM CD. This CD is bootable and joy.sys included already.

I extracted files including floppy image and added a 3.7GB file.

And installed at VMware Player.

I read the CD that I had successfully created earlier using my custom floppy image and standard El Torito emulation to an ISO. Then tried burning it to a DVDRW on a different machine. Nero refused to burn it, ejected my DVDRW and requested a CD or CDRW.

Yes, that's a well known Nero bug.

MagicISO burned it to the DVDRW and reported success, but the disc was unreadable on any system I put it in.

Broken burn application, DVD media or writer.

A CD image is writable and bootable at DVD.

We are back at broken hardware. CMC media are for the trash bin.

[jaclaz]

You are leading the discussion, because you are trying to persuade me to use MKISOFS, GRUB4DOS, and SHSUCDX, without giving me an answer as to whether I can use a standard Win98 Boot Disk and standard El Torito emulation to do this.

I do not want to use ANY of these things if this project can be accomplished without them.

No prob.

Definitely they are not the only ones.

We have a whole catalog of alternate tricks.

But, JFYI, unless I am mistaken, under the terms of the contract I signed, I am in no way obliged to:

• answer all questions
  
• answer questions
  
• recommend (or NOT recommend) software
  
• attempt persuading anyone (or fail to) over anything
  
• prove (or fail to prove) ANYTHING
  

All I do is trying to see if I can help, but I will do it with my methods and at my own pace, take it or leave it, no offence intended, and no offence taken.

I won't get involved in a flame war about MSCDEX.EXE vs. SHSUCDX.EXE or mkisofs vs magiciso or whatever, they all seem to me like King Kong vs. Godzilla (and JFYI, the dinosaur can get rid of that grown up chimpanzee with one hand tied behind his back, anytime )

You want MSCDEX.EXE, have it, it's all yours.

Now, back to the problem.

Let me see if we can sum up the original problem:

• you made a DVD that does not boot
  
• you made it with a custom floppy image
  
• you made it with MagicISO
  

The problem can be:

1. in your DVD hardware
   
2. in your custom floppy image
   
3. in MagicISO
   
4. in a PBCAK
   

My first idea was that it was MagicISO or the PBCAK .

I simply suggested a way to test if that was the problem, but you have a number of limits in your current environment:

• no VM
  
• no certainty about the DVD hardware
  

From what you report and from results of your tests with Nero, I am starting to really think it is #1 above, and if this is the case there is no need to change anything.

Try doing yet another attempt with IMGBURN:

http://www.imgburn.com/

using these instructions:

http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?showtopic=1779

and your usual floppy image as boot image.

If it's another coaster, I would say that it is a hardware problem, so you can forget everything about mkisofs and it's commands and about MSCDEX vs. SHSUCDX, and even this whole thread, just go to your trusted PC dealer, fork from a few bucks and get a new burner.

jaclaz