Bootable Floppy Image Works On CD But Not On DVD

[LoneCrusader]

Ive been in the process of making a Multiple Windows installation DVD, using an image of a custom boot floppy (DOS/WIN9X style, not 2K/XP style) to make the DVD bootable.

The floppy disk that I have used for the image boots properly every time, and if I write the image to a CD it boots properly. However, if I write the SAME bootable image to a DVD, it does not boot when the computer starts up.

This computer has no problem booting from a Knoppix Live DVD, so I know there's not a hardware problem.

I can choose "Boot from CD" inside System Commander, and it will boot from the DVD. This is useless on a computer without System Commander or a similar boot loader installed though.

Any ideas?

[jaclaz]

How did you write/which tool you used/with which command lines to create the bootable DVD?

jaclaz

[LoneCrusader]

How did you write/which tool you used/with which command lines to create the bootable DVD?

jaclaz

Used WinImage 7 to create floppy image, Used MagicISO 5.5 to burn the DVD.

[jaclaz]

Used WinImage 7 to create floppy image, Used MagicISO 5.5 to burn the DVD.

Well, the floppy image should be allright, if it works on CD, so the problem must be the way the DVD is created.

If you use magiciso you don't need Winimage, however:

http://www.magiciso.com/tutorials/miso-createfloppyimage.htm

Are you using a "plain" El-Torito floppy emulation or the magiciso multiboot feature?

http://www.magiciso.com/tutorials/miso-cre...multi-os-cd.htm

http://www.magiciso.com/tutorials/miso-createmultibootcd.htm

http://www.magiciso.com/howto/howto.htm#Make bootable ISO image

Are you sure you are using ISO (and not UIF)?

This computer has no problem booting from a Knoppix Live DVD, so I know there's not a hardware problem.

I wouldn't be that sure, I see no theoretical reason against the fact that a BIOS may be able to boot from a no-emulation DVD and NOT from an El-Torito Floppy emulation one.

Easiest to check would be to use a no-emulation bootsector, as an example grub4dos grldr, and then chainload the floppy image.

Mkisofs is anyway recommended (though it has an awful syntax) as we know how it works.

jaclaz

[LoneCrusader]

Well, the floppy image should be allright, if it works on CD, so the problem must be the way the DVD is created.

Are you using a "plain" El-Torito floppy emulation or the magiciso multiboot feature?

Using Plain El-Torito floppy emulation. Then I use JO.SYS for HDD/DVD boot choice, then the IO.SYS/CONFIG.SYS Menu to choose which system to install.

Are you sure you are using ISO (and not UIF)?

Actually I did not create an ISO image, I just used MagicISO to burn the DVD. I planned to make an ISO of it later if everything worked properly after testing.

This computer has no problem booting from a Knoppix Live DVD, so I know there's not a hardware problem.

I wouldn't be that sure, I see no theoretical reason against the fact that a BIOS may be able to boot from a no-emulation DVD and NOT from an El-Torito Floppy emulation one.

Easiest to check would be to use a no-emulation bootsector, as an example grub4dos grldr, and then chainload the floppy image.

Mkisofs is anyway recommended (though it has an awful syntax) as we know how it works.

jaclaz

Ugh, I was hoping to avoid having to decipher grub4dos. Although I see some advantages in it, I looked into it at the beginning of this project and decided to run away from it

[jaclaz]

Actually I did not create an ISO image, I just used MagicISO to burn the DVD. I planned to make an ISO of it later if everything worked properly after testing.

You have a queer idea of testing.

Usually you create the .iso, you try it in a VM, if it works you burn the .iso.

Trying it in a VM is not a 100% "safe" test, it is possible that the .iso does not work in a VM and is happily booting on real hardware or viceversa, but unless VERY strange builds or VERY strange BIOS, if it works in Qemu or VMware it works on real hardware too.

Qemu is a bit more "picky" for booting so in this case is a better testing ground.

About grub4dos is not that bad, it's mkisofs the problem .

An example menu.lst:

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showto...69211&st=26

(which if you have your own ways can be reduced to):

timeout 1
title dos.ima
map --mem /dos.ima (fd0)
map --hook
root (fd0)
chainloader +1

or:

timeout 1
title dos.ima
map --mem /dos.ima (fd0)
map --hook
root (fd0)
chainloader /io.sys

To create the .iso you can use the command lines in my batch:

http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?sho...18045&st=25

jaclaz

[LoneCrusader]

You have a queer idea of testing.

Usually you create the .iso, you try it in a VM, if it works you burn the .iso.

Trying it in a VM is not a 100% "safe" test, it is possible that the .iso does not work in a VM and is happily booting on real hardware or viceversa, but unless VERY strange builds or VERY strange BIOS, if it works in Qemu or VMware it works on real hardware too.

Qemu is a bit more "picky" for booting so in this case is a better testing ground.

I don't have any VM software installed (Yet). Ive used VMWare before at college, but it doesn't run on 9X. Haven't experimented with any others, although I bought a copy of Virtual PC 5 (on the box it claims to run in ME, so I'm hoping for 98SE as well ) on eBay the other day, just haven't had time to try it out yet. Also there is the 4GB FAT32 file size limit since I'm doing this in 98. I planned to make the ISO on a XP/NTFS or Linux system.

About grub4dos is not that bad, it's mkisofs the problem .

Ill look into it again. Ill probably be back with a lot of questions

Edited January 31, 2010 by LoneCrusader

[LoneCrusader]

@ jaclaz

Ok. I read through most of the GRUB4DOS Wiki, and the GRUB4DOS Tutorial at Boot-Land.

Downloaded grub4dos-0.4.4-2009-06-20.zip.

Downloaded bcd111.zip from here to get mkisofs.

Unzipped grub4dos to its own folder, and put mkisofs in that folder as well.

Following the instructions on this page, I assume:

1. That the iso_root folder must be in the dame directory as mkisofs, and should contain grldr, menu.lst, and all of the files & folders to be included on the CD/DVD.

2. I need to run the command

mkisofs -R -b grldr -no-emul-boot -boot-load-size 4 -o grldr.iso iso_root

from the GRUB4DOS directory in a DOS box.

3. This will create a bootable ISO that I can burn to a disc or load in a VM.

4. Only the size of the iso_root folder will affect whether or not the ISO is a CD or DVD image, otherwise there is no difference.

5. I can edit the ISO image with MagicISO or another program after it is created.

Please correct me if any of my assumptions are wrong.

Since you said mkisofs is the worst part of this, I decided to try to learn it first. Then I'll worry about my menu and so on. If this works, I can use a CDRW to test with until I get it perfected.

[jaclaz]

1. That the iso_root folder must be in the dame directory as mkisofs, and should contain grldr, menu.lst, and all of the files & folders to be included on the CD/DVD.

Yep.

2. I need to run the command

mkisofs -R -b grldr -no-emul-boot -boot-load-size 4 -o grldr.iso iso_root

from the GRUB4DOS directory in a DOS box.

Yes and No.

Those are settings that could be allright for your present purpose, but that are by no means the "right" ones for a more "complete" grldr CD (like various NT based OS, PE's, etc.

A "better" example is in the given link.

3. This will create a bootable ISO that I can burn to a disc or load in a VM.

Yes.

4. Only the size of the iso_root folder will affect whether or not the ISO is a CD or DVD image, otherwise there is no difference.

Yes.

5. I can edit the ISO image with MagicISO or another program after it is created.

No, meaning that you can, but the results are unpredictable, meaning that I do not trust any .iso editing app, when it comes to bootable .iso.

Since you said mkisofs is the worst part of this, I decided to try to learn it first. Then I'll worry about my menu and so on. If this works, I can use a CDRW to test with until I get it perfected.

Hmmm, the idea was using the iso and the VM, you remember (of course CDRW are OK as well )

jaclaz

[dencorso]

Maybe you should add a DVD+RW to your testing set, as well, just to be on the safe side (I do favor DVD+RW over DVD-RW, but either would be equally OK, here).

[LoneCrusader]

Maybe you should add a DVD+RW to your testing set, as well, just to be on the safe side (I do favor DVD+RW over DVD-RW, but either would be equally OK, here).

Im GLAD you brought that up.

That's a whole other problem. For some crazy reason I cannot burn DVDRW's. I have the hardware, and the software, and the discs, but something just isn't working right. I didn't know who or where to ask about it, unless I asked one of you guys (since I'm running 98), so I just figured I would work around it.

[dencorso]

Before anything, do get the manual, or at least the specs of your burner and confirm it should, in fact, be able to burn DVD±RW. And post the exact brand and model, just in case.

[LoneCrusader]

Before anything, do get the manual, or at least the specs of your burner and confirm it should, in fact, be able to burn DVD±RW. And post the exact brand and model, just in case.

Lite-On DH-20A4P

Using Nero Ultra Edition 6.6.1.4 / MagicISO 5.5. Build 276

Using maxell DVD-RW's and memorex DVD+RW's.

[submix8c]

Older 6.x version of Nero? Upgrade yourself to this version and see if that helps (last 6.x version). Pay attention that you are not installing everything (e.g. "extra toolbars"). It may have something to do with it (dunno).

[dencorso]

Use instead v. 6.6.1.15a, which is the same Nero update but has less bundled things to avoid the installation of. You can download it here.