Help: I need to Get 2GB installed RAM working in Win98SE

[Max Monroe]

Did you mean "DEVICE=HIMEM.SYS /NUMHANDLES=96 /TESTMEM:ON /V" ? Well, it didn't work, anyway. Win98 didn't boot, with "no memory". Had to return to 40000 / 65536. Aaaaaanyway, thanks for trying, and here's the RAM dump, perhaps it helps....

00000000-0009FFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

000A0000-000AFFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES (Omega 2.6.37)

000B0000-000BFFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES (Omega 2.6.37)

000C0000-000CCFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES (Omega 2.6.37)

000CD000-000CFFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

000F0000-000F7FFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

000F8000-000FBFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

000FC000-000FFFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

00100000-7FFEFFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

7FFF0000-7FFFFFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

C0000000-CFFFFFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES (Omega 2.6.37)

C0000000-DFFFFFFF : VIA CPU to AGP Controller

D0000000-DFFFFFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES - Secondary (Omega 2.6.37)

E0000000-E3FFFFFF : VIA Standard Host Bridge

E4000000-E43FFFFF : Intel® 536EP Modem

E4400000-E441FFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES (Omega 2.6.37)

E4400000-E44FFFFF : VIA CPU to AGP Controller

E4420000-E442FFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES (Omega 2.6.37)

E4430000-E443FFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES - Secondary (Omega 2.6.37)

E4500000-E45007FF : PCI OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller

E4501000-E45010FF : VIA PCI to USB Enhanced Host Controller

E4502000-E45020FF : VIA Rhine II Fast Ethernet Adapter

FEC00000-FECFFFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

FEE00000-FEEFFFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

FFF80000-FFFEFFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

FFFF0000-FFFFFFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

[dencorso]

[...]

C0000000-CFFFFFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES (Omega 2.6.37)

C0000000-DFFFFFFF : VIA CPU to AGP Controller

D0000000-DFFFFFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES - Secondary (Omega 2.6.37)

1) This looks as a memory conflict to me. Isn't there any typo?

E0000000-E3FFFFFF : VIA Standard Host Bridge

E4000000-E43FFFFF : Intel® 536EP Modem

E4400000-E441FFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES (Omega 2.6.37))

E4400000-E44FFFFF : VIA CPU to AGP Controller

E4420000-E442FFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES (Omega 2.6.37)

E4430000-E443FFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES - Secondary (Omega 2.6.37)

2) Same here. Isn't there any typo?

E4500000-E45007FF : PCI OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller

E4501000-E45010FF : VIA PCI to USB Enhanced Host Controller

E4502000-E45020FF : VIA Rhine II Fast Ethernet Adapter

FEC00000-FECFFFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

FEE00000-FEEFFFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

FFF80000-FFFEFFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

FFFF0000-FFFFFFFF : System board extension for ACPI BIOS

Now, I see the following free memory spaces:

E4440000-E44FFFFF = C0000

E4500800-E4500FFF = 00800

E4501100-E4501FFF = 00F00

E4502100-FEBFFFFF = 1A6FDF00

FED00000-FEDFFFFF = 100000

FEF00000-FFF7FFFF = 1080000

Which totals to 1B93FE00 => 451839 kB on doing Igor Leyko's calculation.

Subtracting a VCache of 65536 KB, the result is 386303 kB... But note that this is fragmented real memory.

And it seems not to be enough for the Ring 0 VM (all Windows VxDs) and additional DOS Boxes (DOS VMs).

I'd do a backup first and then...

I'd try to remove ACPI (and APM) from Win 98, to liberate some more memory on the 4th GB...

I've posted a how-to here (link) some time ago, for other reasons, but it might solve your problem.

Then again, this is just a wild guess...

Anyway, good luck! And please do keep me posted on it.

[dencorso]

Hi again, GreyPhound!

I just finished reading it and found a small typo, that needs correction:

As a rule, AGP devices use addresses starting from E0000000, that is 3,5 Gb. Disk cache at that can use a half gigabyte. This is exactly what determines a recommendation to limit cache to the value of 524288 Kb (512 Mb).

This notwithstanding, you did a fantastic job! Thanks again!

[dencorso]

Well I have tried everything that was possible (given my knowledge of the problem) and I have not been able to make XMSDSK work without problems.

[...]

-----------------------------------

XMSDSK Failure

-------------------------------------

Whenever XMSDSK succesfully creates a ram drive then my dos windows become unavailable for the "out of memory error"

MOREOVER XMSDSK does not work properly: when I start the scandisk, to check the sectors into the ramdrive Z, the write attempt fails after a while.

A more simple copy write attempts fails too.

The failure happens not at a specific point.

what happens is that I got a blue screen with not recoverable error sayng things like:

"An exception 0E has occurred at 0028:C0004D6D in VxD Vmm(01) + 00003D6D. This was called from 0028:C19359C4 in Vxd Rmm(01) + 00000254"

I have tried many different settings for XMSDSK.

[...]

Hi, vick1111!

Please try:

c:\ramdisk\xmsdsk.exe 262272 Z: /c1 /y

**yes, without the "/t", despite all you can read about it: there are reports this may solve your problem.**

It's said it works for 2GB or more RAM. I never tried it, because I've not encountered such a problem, probably because I've got only 1.5GB, I guess. Good luck!

Edited January 6, 2008 by dencorso

[GreyPhound]

Hi again, GreyPhound!

I just finished reading it and found a small typo, that needs correction:

As a rule, AGP devices use addresses starting from E0000000, that is 3,5 Gb. Disk cache at that can use a half gigabyte. This is exactly what determines a recommendation to limit cache to the value of 524288 Kb (512 Mb).

Corrected.

Sorry for that one, it must have been a browser encoding thing, as that misrepresented value is correct in my original text file.

[Max Monroe]

[...]

C0000000-CFFFFFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES (Omega 2.6.37)

C0000000-DFFFFFFF : VIA CPU to AGP Controller

D0000000-DFFFFFFF : RADEON 9600 SERIES - Secondary (Omega 2.6.37)

1) This looks as a memory conflict to me. Isn't there any typo?

Nope, that's copy-pasted as it came. Anyway, both are kinda "video card" stuff, so I assume it might not be entirely wrong to overlap / be dual allocated / accessed. Actually, I do kinda wonder WHAT THE HECK does the video adapter with THAT kind of memory allocated to it... It's a 128MB ATI Radeon 9600, for Pete's sake...

I'd try to remove ACPI (and APM) from Win 98, to liberate some more memory on the 4th GB...

I've posted a how-to here (link) some time ago, for other reasons, but it might solve your problem.

Then again, this is just a wild guess...

Anyway, good luck! And please do keep me posted on it.

Thanks, but as one of the posters in the other thread noted, I'm not in a hurry to get rid of ACPI (if I understand correctly, the 3 to 4 GB area really matters, and ACPI seems to hold a lousy 20MB there), especially since disabling it in the BIOS would shoot it under my other OS (XP) too, I suppose.

As much as I hate that, I might just finally dump '98 alltogether, because I'm stuck with disturbingly-not-current versions of much everything lately, things crash a bit too often for lack of resources and so forth. It has recently come to the point of nobody giving a crap whether their app runs on 98 or not (mostly not), and I'm NOT willing to get stuck in the stone age of software if only that keeps working. Not being able to watch a current MOV clip on the net just about does it...

[dencorso]

I'd try to remove ACPI (and APM) from Win 98, to liberate some more memory on the 4th GB...

I've posted a how-to here (link) some time ago, for other reasons, but it might solve your problem.

Then again, this is just a wild guess...

Anyway, good luck! And please do keep me posted on it.

Thanks, but as one of the posters in the other thread noted, I'm not in a hurry to get rid of ACPI (if I understand correctly, the 3 to 4 GB area really matters, and ACPI seems to hold a lousy 20MB there), especially since disabling it in the BIOS would shoot it under my other OS (XP) too, I suppose.

Note that my how-to was written with other purposes in mind. For a double boot machine, I'd recommend to skip the BIOS part, so as to leave ACPI for the other OSes. And, then, remove ACPI from Win 98 only (this causes Win 98 to switch to APM). And the remove APM also from Win 98 only. As well as disable NVRAM/ESCD updates and IRQ Steering in Win 98 only. It can be done and works OK. What remains to be seen is whether this also can solve your memory problem.

Edited January 6, 2008 by dencorso

[diskless]

Does the WinME virtual memory manager work with Win98SE?

If so, I think this would be the only way to get 2 GB working, otherwise the most is a little more than 1.5 GB.

[BenoitRen]

I'm NOT willing to get stuck in the stone age of software if only that keeps working

You want stone age? Get a computer with an early version of DOS. That's stone age.

[j7n]

Corrected.

Sorry for that one, it must have been a browser encoding thing, as that misrepresented value is correct in my original text file.

Don't the last 512 Megs start from A0000000? Originally you had Cyrillic "A" there.

[GreyPhound]

Corrected.

Sorry for that one, it must have been a browser encoding thing, as that misrepresented value is correct in my original text file.

Don't the last 512 Megs start from A0000000? Originally you had Cyrillic "A" there.

Here's the original text in Russian:

Как правило, устройства AGP используют для своих нужд адреса, начиная с е0000000, то есть 3,5 Гб. Дисковому кэшу при этом можно использовать полгигабайта.

Same text in English:

As a rule, AGP devices use addresses starting from E0000000, that is 3,5 Gb. Disk cache at that can use a half gigabyte.

[Max Monroe]

I'm NOT willing to get stuck in the stone age of software if only that keeps working

You want stone age? Get a computer with an early version of DOS. That's stone age.

My oh my, someone is in a cranky mood today... B) We certainly can go back to the Spectrum, the punched tape, or Babbage if you wish, but let's not, shall we? I arbitrarily define as stone age version any software that does not enable me to use features considered standard these days, features that my hardware would otherwise be quite capable to perform. And most software today is a GENERATION beyond their last version that supported win98, usually more than fulfilling the criteria above. I could even live with that, I suppose. But when a properly set-up memory upgrade wrecks the runnability of a quarter of my programs, plays tricks with the audio with the rest, and the best advice I get is to shoot the ACPI too to solve all this, I start having second thoughts, pardon me.

So.

You say all this isn't very constructive? Excellent observation. Perhabs you have an idea then why is a 128MB Radeon allocating 512MB of virtual address space, given that most people's video adapters take a QUARTER of that...?

...Thought so. Thank you.

[erpdude8]

I'm NOT willing to get stuck in the stone age of software if only that keeps working

You want stone age? Get a computer with an early version of DOS. That's stone age.

My oh my, someone is in a cranky mood today... B) We certainly can go back to the Spectrum, the punched tape, or Babbage if you wish, but let's not, shall we? I arbitrarily define as stone age version any software that does not enable me to use features considered standard these days, features that my hardware would otherwise be quite capable to perform. And most software today is a GENERATION beyond their last version that supported win98, usually more than fulfilling the criteria above. I could even live with that, I suppose. But when a properly set-up memory upgrade wrecks the runnability of a quarter of my programs, plays tricks with the audio with the rest, and the best advice I get is to shoot the ACPI too to solve all this, I start having second thoughts, pardon me.

So.

You say all this isn't very constructive? Excellent observation. Perhabs you have an idea then why is a 128MB Radeon allocating 512MB of virtual address space, given that most people's video adapters take a QUARTER of that...?

...Thought so. Thank you.

eh don't mind Benoitren. he can sometimes act like a punk!

some of us are really fed up with his immature childish behavior; one of these days, if he "crosses the line" he might get banned from this 9x forum

Edited January 8, 2008 by erpdude8

[erpdude8]

[...]

With this in mind, let's see if I understood well : dare I ask, what you are saying amounts to Windows/VMM at startup remapping to system memory space (the 3rd virtual gigabyte) any XMS memory blocks that were allocated (in DOS presumably) before Win started ? Makes sense !

--

Ninho

Ninho:

Thanks for the heads up. I've, now, corrected my post.

But I forgot to answer your question, so I'm doing it now:

Yes, you've got it right. That's exactly what I meant.

And XMSDSK is just a good example of a program that allocates XMS from DOS (run from autoexec.bat or from config.sys), before Windows even begins to load. There are other examples, but I think ramdisks are the most useful nowadays. I think Igor Leyko didn't cover this subject in his article because it would render even more complicated a subject that, as you yourself have said, is not easy at all. But in the present thread it is unavoidable to consider the case of ramdisks, because, IMHO, they are a must for systems having more than 1GB of RAM installed.

Speaking of RAMDisks, the max size you can create is 2Gb. see this MDGx tip on how to use RAMDisks:

http://www.mdgx.com/newtip12.htm#RAM

thanks to GreyPhound and dencorso for the english translation.

Edited January 8, 2008 by erpdude8

[BenoitRen]

eh don't mind Benoitren. he can sometimes act like a punk! mad.gif

some of us are really fed up with his immature childish behavior; one of these days, if he "crosses the line" he might get banned from this 9x forum

What the hell are you talking about?

I'm so sorry I was defending Win98, which is what this entire forum is mostly about. Sheesh.

Features considered standard these days? Eh, people take anything for granted these days. I wouldn't follow the sheep. Those same sheep that fall for M$' lies every time and continue to buy software that is more than a generation behind when it comes to actual programming techniques and optimisation. People will accept anything, apparantly.