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Everything posted by winxpi

  1. Thanks! I'll let you know if I find out about alternatives too.
  2. I think I bought my second Windows 10 preinstalled NB in the beginn of 2022 (before the world wide sanctions of Russia thats only thing I remember). At that time Google Chrome Canary was still updateable on Windows 7 SP1 vanilla. A few months ago I checked and the error message appeared that Windows 7 is not supported anymore so I wont get any updates any more. Is there any Windows 7 or Windows 8 /8.1 compatible browser that also gets support or security updates from 2022/2023 on? Should be other forks than roytams out there too. I mean: Mozilla has ESR channels too. How hard can it be? Need it for my old notebook with Windows 7. Neither do I have the time motivation nor the free space to install Windows 10 crappy edition. When support of my antivirus license expired I will really be in need to have a solution for this. Chrome will as also Firefox still be perfectly usable to browse the web for some years but the danger catching a virus or trojan horse will be higher due to security flaws not fixed in the browsers now.
  3. Ofcourse you know youtube.com isnt really accessible with IE11 anymore, sinche Microsoft said that IE11 is deprecated. So if you try to access youtube from IE11 you wont have luck because you get "referred" to https://www.youtube.com/supported_browsers But if you have a video and you use IE11 and you need to quickly open it in IE11 (for whatever reason) there is a workaround. You need the infamous w3c tryit page from https://www.w3schools.com/tryit/tryit.asp?filename=tryhtml_hello There you can paste an embed code like this: <iframe width="1289" height="561" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/YOUTUBEVID" title="TITLE OF VIDEO" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe> But instead of the YOUTUBEVID you enter the video-id you wont. E.g. FjIr4PdHm1c for the Video-ID of the video "Internet Explorer 11: Getting started with Internet Explorer 11". Ofcourse you could also write that in a plain html file but I really like to use w3schools.com it has alot of hidden features that I cant really describe now atleast I can say that about youtube related embeding. Aslong as nothing critical happens to the embedding coding this should also work on Internet Explorer 11. However I dont recommend you to use Internet Explorer 11 besides for compability reasons for old pages or apps (prior to the official support ending). This is because even msfn.org wont be displayed correctly in IE11. And if that happens it sure is a sign that a browser is loosing alot of its compability to modern web standards. Even thought some pages may still be IE11-friendly. But that cannot be guaranteed for the future.
  4. That sounds great. Thanks for the feedback! Actually its to Test compability of a Standard somewhere between http/1.1 and http/2 (basically https). Spdy protocol Standard. I was asking to ensure that the test results apply to other 9x compatible browser aswell. I forgot. Some years ago this freezing occured also while in BIOS.
  5. Yesss! The Microsoft released Windows Updates.
  6. As for Google Drive: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hpPqrdnn-vB_TkgKdCQfIYKgfbTeleOG/view I get following message (I translated from German) "This file looks suspicious. The file is visible only to the owner." I clicked on the button to let it get reviewed by Google. But seems they are not satisfied which the Executable File. Apparently also "McAfee" will claim, that the Wupg98 executable might be a threat. Whereas Kaspersky online scan finds no threat. And virustotal is ambivalent (depending on virus scanner): https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/2d5e682cf2ba05079ea543765e2239337e3be10ed2b3deca53e9376c8ef702f9 To make this clear: This apparently has to do with one batch file that executes a restart of the pc/lapop once all the updates have finished. The option was either surpressing reboot for all updates and reminding from MS-DOS that you have to restart your machine (what might have been not so good for novice users but user-friendlier for heavy users). Or having the automatic reboot. Avoding reboot isn't really an option. The advantage is that you only have to do it once instead of after every entire Update/Hotfix. And when you install the WUPG98 (regardless if it was a previous version or the Afterlife or the Afterlife light) you have to be ready for a reboot so have all important windows closed already. The behaviour of MCAfee is also bit silly. I activated the program today and both files english and german language where deleted immediately after a few minutes I redownloaded them. But its also a good example as with alot of programs: Its either usability(user has more options) or acting without users consent (file gets deleted without chance of quarantine or user interaction). I would be lying if I said Upgrade Pack doesnt lack usability. But when the choices to either install the whole package, only the updates, only a few things or exit was added. It was actually the first and last time a blink of usability was added to the pack. Nothing big. But I think it was a good improvement. Atleast just for the pause that the user has time to read. It was sure annoying or making the user nervous if the batch file ran immediately without any dialog or user interaction before.... But also: Some users expect from an Upgrade Pack something to be that comes near to unattended (silent)installation/automatic slip streaming etc. thats why the usability here is limited. Even if its only one or two key strokes: For some users thats already too much! As always with programs and software: Theres no one size fits all!
  7. You are right! Sorry. I uploaded the project now on Github. So I really appreciate if any fellows on MSFN want to contribute or improve the WUPG98 from this code base on. But I dont expect it. German DIY WUPG98 Afterlife light Edition! Download: https://github.com/wupg98/wupg98-AFLl_de DIY Guide zur Erstellung des SFX in Winrar: https://github.com/wupg98/wupg98-AFLl_de/blob/main/Anleitung_zum_Portieren English DIY WUPG98 Afterlife light Edition! Download: https://github.com/wupg98/wupg98-AFLl_en DIY guide for creating the portable installer in Winrar: https://github.com/wupg98/wupg98-AFLl_en/blob/main/Building SFX I had an manically urge to finish this project when I saw that the WUPG98 was never forgotten on the net. Be it MDGX, the web archive or Creopard. Even the tracker of the "offline" webpage still showed up "recent" visitors when host.sk was down for years. Its a funny sidestory: Althought bpa23.host.sk is down for ever the tracking code landed on the web.archive.org and seems to be operational as we speak. And since the tracking page still exists tracking also continues on web archived pages xD. Would be interesting to know what "EU" thinks about General Data Protection Regulation when european pages are still now on the web.archive but tracking code dates back to time where the law was not passed yet... Web archive really is like Time Travelling the Web ;D Love the community here. All the best
  8. Surprise surprise! A "new" WUPG 98 version was shortly released which is called "WUPG98 Afterlife light Edition:". Basically its in 3 MBs smaller. Yes it will be only in german and english. But its not an entirely new version. Only one Windows update that was lying around on my pc for some years for DirectX 9.0C is new. Other with mostly this is a "light" edition. Meaning: NTFSRO was removed, USBMT was removed. Insiders into Windows 98SE, MSFN or the USB Mass storage solutions out there for 95-98SE might know that actually besides the solution of R.LOEW and Maximus Decim there isn't any 32-Bit solution out there to fully support USB mass storage devices from USB 1.x to 2.0. Official download server is the Google drive and Media Fire(just in case). Google seems to be unsure if the wupg98 is trustworthy.. Download(English): Via Google drive: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hpPqrdnn-vB_TkgKdCQfIYKgfbTeleOG/view?usp=sharing Mediafire: https://www.mediafire.com/file/ljxrncfis3zb2k3/wupg98-AFLl_v0116_en.exe/file Download (German/Deutsch): Via Google drive: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rl2Zv9vFJiqndwikEljFcDRsFDVMMlwG/view?usp=sharing Mediafire: https://www.mediafire.com/file/dsmutqt3e66hup8/wupg98-AFLl_v0116_de.exe/file And actually the old usbmt was more or less based on one the two mentioned. I want to apologize for everyone that feels deceived now. I added Wintop Taskmananger that I found pretty usefull when programs on Windows 98 seem to be frozen (if you compare it with the risky CTRL+ALT+DEL) which is also mentioned by the german partner page "creopard" here: https://www.creopard.de/download/detail/wintop_fuer_windows_9x/59.htm Mostly nothing new. A few system.ini and outdated or irregular "tweaks" were removed or added in case of config.sys. Other than that: Dont expect anything "big". Its more about having WUPG98 run with less disk space usage and being a "Patch" for an Upgrade Pack. I found the NTFSro tool rather risky since it allows access to NTFS and writing to disks may lead to file corruption atleast that was true when I hung up a notebook hdd some years ago (already after WUPG98 Afterlife Edition). I recommend using Total Commander(unluckily shareware) with the plugin that supports exFAT/NTFS (readonly) (https://www.ghisler.com/plugins.htm) I didn't update KernelEx for nostalgic reasons (some like older versions) and pure lazyness. And I want to point out that I didnt get paid by any of the mentioned software distributors or Microsoft etc for mentioning links here. When reading the current MSFN message board I was highly motivated to continue finishing a release for WUPG98. So this is why I added this "minor" changes in an "updated" light edition. As "producer" of the WUPG98 I wanted to stay true too the promise that only official Microsoft Updates are included. Thats why the Daylight Saving Time update wasn't added (and because time zones change very often... there are tools to fix this manually luckily!). Thats not to say that it wasnt not impossible to do so with registry keys but I lacked the motivation. Since the "2011" WUPG98 is a available on many servers I thought I should also contribute something to the community. Even if its not something big but rather small this time. A few infos (changelog) can also be found online on: https://wupg98.blogspot.com/2022/05/upgrade-pack-windows-98-january-2016.html
  9. K-Meleon, Retrozilla Are best first choices. You might also want to try the Opera 12.01 with spdy 3.0 (https 2.0 predecessor). Original page with link (ofcourse not available anymore the files): https://dev.opera.com/articles/opera-spdy-build/ Via web.archive download will work nonetheless: https://web.archive.org/web/20130719134524/http://snapshot.opera.com/labs/spdy/Opera-Labs-SPDY-12.01-1495.i386.exe It seems to support the spdy test: http://www.httpvshttps.com even in 2022. Thats not to say that msfn.org/board can be displayed with it...For that rather stick to Firefox(Mozilla based) browsers. I havent tested youtube in a while. And only can report that html5 with integrated graphics card with over 20 years age was laggy and slow compared to flash. With an modern graphics(e.g. 2004/2005) card it might work ok. A few years ago even IE supported msfn.org/board
  10. Actually any version. 20H2 yes Im using that at home! Dont know which version number we have in business but that it was Enterprise Edition. Must admit I run alot of programs so hat can happen sometime. Whats interesting is now that I mentioned it: On the Enterprise Edition(B2B) I never had wifi problems. Whereas on any Home or Pro (retail editions aka B2C) this occured regardless of the version installed. 98SE and FE both are not the stablest os compared to lets say Windows 2000 or Windows 7. XP was pretty solid but thats not to say it was stablest. Vista crashes alot nowadays on older laptops but didnt notice this before and also might have to do with hardware limitations (using old Celeron but on other hand no modern software and 3GB RAM). But Vista was sure like a Windows 7 FE. :D. If you think about the fact that, you could use Vista drivers for Windows 7 and Vista seems from the look and feel a bit like XP but improved Vista on the other hand not yet as stable as 7. Sorry with Internet Explorer I meant Windows 10. Might have sounded confusing when the topic refers to 98 aswell. Yeah I understand that. And TPM 2.0 wont prevent ransomware unluckily. Only physical theft of data.
  11. How does the webpage http://www.httpvshttps.com work for Retrozilla? Im asking because I tested it several times on Opera 12.02 in 2020 or so. But today it shows an error message that https2 isnt supported. So test can only be conducted in http mode. On a special version of Opera 12.01 it will load and show no error message. But regardless of http or https mode will load everything in 0.0 seconds. Thats not to say that msfn will load properly. Alot of viewing errors so besides logging in and reading a bit comment function didnt work. Is that better on Retrozilla? All tests done on Windows 98SE with Upgrade Pack 98, KernelEx. But Im writing on Windows 10 now. The 98se machine is a bit unstable and overheats or freezes after sometimes. And even when rebooting will then not boot besided the boot logo for some time.
  12. I think there will be no further release anymore of WUPG98. I might answer questions on software that might be good for Windows 98SE. But originally it was designed for systems that were around 128 MB RAM, ISA,PCI or AGP graphics card, and anything else with ISA/PCI port. My test systems were either EIDE or SCSI. Never tried with SATA. Most of them had a CD-Drive or CD-RW. FIDE floppy drive 3.5 inch. Also the graphics card with most power was only 32 MB or 64 MB AGP. No PCI Express ever tested on my behalve. One time I used DVD drive, but not very long. CPUs tested on: Cyrix MII-300 , 128-MB RAM (simm and or SDRAM dimm mixed) Pentium 3 @1 Ghz , 256 MB RAM (SDRAM). I see alot of games stop working on older platforms now, not just Windows 98SE but also Windows Vista. Dont really know why. If you ask me why use windows 98se in 2022? Then most likely if you want to play dos games or if you want to use the feature that converts original CD tracks automatically into wav files. But browsing will be a pain in the a**. Even with good graphic cards. Your best "mainstream" shot is the Retrozilla, some older Opera browser (max. 12.02 edition). And more unorthodox approach is to download a java emulator (I cant really give you advice which might be good) and try Opera Mini Java. Yesterday I downloaded on my old Nokia phone with S60 Symbian the opera mini browser I think version 7.1 it seemed to work good. That doesnt mean you will be able to browser youtube again. But I could atleast make an appointment from the local website of my city for my passport renewal. Anyway some cached version of the offical page(web archive) is available on the web.archive.org and external pages for downloads are available: Via mdgx: https://www.mdgx.com/web.htm#UPL Download directly: English: https://www.mdgx.com/spx/WUPG98.EXE German(Deutsch): https://www.mdgx.com/spx/WUPG98DE.EXE An external mirror for German version only on creopard: https://www.creopard.de/download/detail/wupg98de-afl/48.htm
  13. I see theres alot of implementation Xbox, Gaming for Windows 10. I use the Home and Pro Edition currently. But Windows 11 is als coming soon, insidre Releases are available. And theres already talk about Windows 12. What do you think about 10? I recently had an bug that the explorer was frozen had to close it in the taskmanager. Reminds me of he issues of 98 had in terms of stability. Also the last operatig system of Windows containing Internet Explorer aka explorer aka Compability explorer. Or as M$ calls it "Compability solution". The security feature as part of hardware TPM 2.0 is now being mandatory for Windows 11 whats quit a shock. But this also reminds as like NTFS was implemented in Windows XP. What do you think? Do you have good experience with Windows 10?
  14. Dont bother! Many people got messages when they downloaded the pack, the Antivirus programs would detect it to be suspicious because a line in one of the batch files automatically restarts Windows 98SE. Thats intended since after installing all the Windows updates a restart is necessary. Sorry for answering so late!! The computer on which I had most of the Windows 98SE upg files for testing is only working sporadically since 2020. I had it over 12 years in use. I backuped all the files on a Vista notebook, maybe maybe maybe I get time to finish a newer version of Windows 98 Upgrade Pack but the problem besides offering anything knew would be that there is no webpage at the moment anymore. So the documentation of changes would have to happen on msfn.org. Maybe MDGX or someone else might offer a download link. Since all the community offers at the moment is really high standard stuff and great tools theres not so much what can be upgraded about the WUPG98 anymore. Examples: TLS 1.2: Roytams' Retrozilla fork from FF exists and thats good, since otherwise most parts of the web now would be inaccessible on 9x. The Updates : Most of them are included in 98SE SP 3.xx ExFat: No support for Windows 98 But as far as I remember read only support when using Total Commander and some plug-in USB: 2.0 is the highest see Maximus-Decim Native USB Drivers Also in terms of upgrading hardware you are limited to graphics drivers that came out until 2006 or so. Pretty much of the problem that Windows 98SE is faced with today is, like also mobile operating systems e.g. Android 2.3.6 its stuck at a certain level so that drivers, hardware and network are not as good as for example how they were implented in Windows 7, 8.1 and 10 and so on. Or when speaking about Android 5.0+ (the real problem of android would be the TLS 1.2 thing if I remember correctly its not like being stuck on 480p videos was such a horror or having less and less new apps many people say having to update all the time even on iOS is getting them annoyed). So you can say with the all the changes on the web in the last years: Java usage decimated, Flash support gone, Windows 98SE ran out of luck the last years. But anyone of you still supporting WIndows 98se nowadays like RLoew who sadly past away are real geniuses!
  15. Thank you to the creator of Retrozilla, in times of deprecating TLS 1.0 and 1.1 (also affects old smartphone browsers)this is an indispensable resource. If there are pages not opening and its just for the text the googles cache (javascript must be enabled)or a webproxy might do the trick. Just my two cents.
  16. Thanks for mentioning all that stuff about TLS1.2 I wasnt even aware that besides Retrozilla browsers (compatible with 9x) existed supporting it. Didnt really have luck with SeaMonkey ever so far but seems to be a specific version that you mentioned and I probably didnt try it out. I also had problems with Opera because it was outdated once I got hold of a version that would have been interesting for windows 9x. It was the so called Opera LABS SPDY thats supposed to support SPDY 2 and SPDY 3 standards. However since https(h2) became the successor its more common that some servers support old http 1.1 or either spdy 3.1 or https(h2). I was never aware of the fact that TLS played a major role for pages not loading until the IE6 SSL 3.0 "poodle"- incident when except for bing and msfn hardly any page opened with that browser.
  17. How will this affect Windows 7 usage by having a newer browser being supported in its twilight years. And what will become of the EdgeHTML version of Edge and Internet Explorer? Question 1: I think it will have no effect on Windows 7. Second question is interesting because I think theres not much use of another Chromium based browser even if it comes from Microsoft, but not saying they shouldnt try. However this means Microsoft will have to either integrate autoupdate of the new browser or now even offer security updates for the Edge chromium-based for Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 since they might differ from Windows 10 Edge if its not really a browser that supports all 3 operating systems. As long as IE 11 gets supports untill official support ending this is ok. I experienced pre-installed IE 11 supporting some pages than pre-installed Edge didnt. EdgeHTML will disappear I think. The motivation for this shift if you want to know what I assume is probably that Google Chrome has the biggest user base in regards of browsers and Firefox was number two last time I checked. Probably its the "If you cant beat them join them" -idea behind it. News I found however: https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/6/18128648/microsoft-edge-chrome-chromium-browser-changes
  18. Except for "Stylish" I never tried those Add-ons. But 45.9 is also one of the last Firefox versions to support alot of the good Add-Ons. But firefox isnt the browser I use for e-mailing, its just for certain sites Im relatively sure that wont lead to malware. Im using the Add-On Classic Theme Restorer with FF 45.9 ESR for example. I think it really depends how important certain Add-ons are for you.
  19. @jumper Right, I must have forgotten that as I didnt update WUPG since then IIRC anymore. What happened so far (after the last version in 2010): The last thing I did planing on was adding a few updates that werent included in the pack before. Then I still had another IE6 cumulative update (unofficial) but since IE6 nowadays is used so rarely (support of pages post http/1.1 and security reasons) that wasnt really a big thing to include. So rather it wouldn have been interesting to include something to improve the non-IE browsers supporting 98SE. And after youtube ended up disabling flash in favor of html5 well windows 98se got thrown against the wall you could say (atleast for systems with outdated hardware). Since the page that included the original download of WUPG98 is offline for some years now it would also be a question of finding a new hosting page(although it would be enough to just share the link here I know or send if to MDGx) if I ever get time to finish a new version of the WUPG. Currently Im not having enough time to continue or better said dont take the time and lack of motivation aswell. Im happy watching that the MSFN community supports 98se after so many years and are enjoyed too see what everyone comes up with. The last "big" thing (or not so unimportant thing) I thought about inlcluding recently, was maybe adding TimeZone updates. But yeah...dont wanna be a pessimist on that one but even the European Union was now thinking about abolishing the Daylight Saving Time.... So better wait what comes out there (not to put too much effort in the thing before everything is outdated again). Microsoft aswell didnt make things easier with shutting down the Windows Update v4 server for 98 (having it online especially wouldnt have been easier for new ideas too include like even more than the 2 languages so far, although I admit that would have been more effort than ever doing the translating of the descriptions and so) but that was a much longer time ago than most of the stuff mentioned here IIRC. Just in case somebody was a bit interested what was going on recently about WUPG98. I thought I share this with you.
  20. Yes hellopdf is ok. I tried also two additional pdf converters that might have one supporting format 1.7. My file had text and two images inside. It was surely made with PDF 1.7 atleast I suppose that Word 2010 supported creating these types of PDFs. I checked with hellopdf which is freeware(should only support up to pdf 1.6): Result were ok or average but some formating issues like image shifted or wrong size of image. "SomePDF.com" (supported format unknown probably pdf 1.6 maybe 1.7 but rather not) converter through the web archive ,was freeware. Results were average. Meaning images were shifted. And ofcourse the conversion is into a .rtf instead of .doc file. KernelEx is needed to start the setup atleast. And number 3: "pdfwordconverter.net" demo version. The limitation is you get a message and start that popups and reminds you that its not the full version and you can register. And also only 50% are converted. I tried to convert 3 pages, 1 only was converted. Couldnt do that for any other page even by changing the "start" page number. It would crash when I did. But the result from the one page that I was allowed to convert was really 100% looking like in the PDF file. There was a version 2.0 (past through webarchive) and 3.0 (also through webarchive, current version is 3.5). Version 2.0 should support windows me and 2000 and all afterwards (according to the webpage). version 3 only Windows 2000 and upwards. I did however not find any difference between version 2.0 and 3.0 . And both did run on 98se with KernelEx(needed atleast to get the setup started). Conclusion: What I would suggest: Trying pdfwordconverter.net for 50% of the content of a pdf (since its demo only) and the other 50% being converted by hellopdf or somepdf.com There were slight differences between hellopdf and somepdf (besides the .doc or .rtf format) considering the layout of text. All 3 pages would have been needed to be edited afterwards anyway. There was one case where a image was converted to big and another where the fonts where to big. But I really cant remember so good which of the two programs did what at the moment. Since people suggest hellopdf to be good for windows 9x I would say try hellopdf and if you want to make an experiment try the other one aswell. Its really up to you which converter is good enough for your work. But the demo limited converted had the most flawless result for the one page it converted and with a small image on it. Making me think somepdf.com is not just supporting pdf 1.6 format but also 1.7 format. But except for hellopdf we have no documentation which pdf version can be converted to word documents. Edit: Most of the PDF-Files I found on my system seem to be PDF 1.4 or 1.5. I still must test the conversion with a 1.6 or 1.7 PDF version.
  21. True. Like the thing that Flash is getting replaced with HTML5 just because mobile devices support it better. And ofcourse older browsers dont work that well over years and the Javascript stuff and Ads everywhere play a roll. Regarding this topic I did suggest the virualization solutions since most modern hardware probably doesnt bring any drivers for Windows 9x with it. So its more a question if the drivers will be recognized or not. When I had to install Windows XP on a system formerly running Windows 2000 I did run into such a case where the network card(NIC) wasnt recognized. So such situations or similiar will probably be the rule with hardware (year 2013 and onwards). However if one wants to run windows 98se on this type of hardware why not. There just a few obstacles in the way nowadays. There still older software that wont run on the most of the modern operating systems of Windows. Especially the MS-DOS games and so.
  22. You might try Windows 98SE through VMWare ESXi (formerly VmWare Esx) or so. I saw a video where somebody claimed to install Windows 98 on Esxi. Still might be the best option how to install on modern hardware.
  23. My friends gave me a 17" LCD (non CRT) for my old windows 98se machine. Actually been the first own 17" monitor I ever used at home (notebooks just rarely have that size but to be preciously even a 15" notebook tft has the same display size as a 17" CRT where only the diagonal size is counted if I remember correctly). However the thing you mentioned reminds me of myself. I also hate the highest possible screen resolution. Its just so unusual to have that small desktop icons. So althought I use 1366x768 for my working notebook , I still stick to 1024x768 or similiar on the 17" LCD for Windows 98SE.
  24. So If I understood it correctly....recently I tried to visit msfn.org on the Windows 98SE PC and it didnt open completely that is the part where CSS fails. And this is not just on my system. I thought the whole msfnorg unusable thing was meant to be the login form (another issue that came fist). If I remember correctly that issue could be solved by using Palemoon. But never tried it myself. But its not even loading the website completely now. That must be the issue related to CSS .I can confirm that msfn.org also doesnt load in Opera or couple of Firefox versions (with the default settings). So would have to try the CSS fix suggested here.
  25. Didnt check that. And were you able to play the video without Opera lets say with a media player? For me it only worked inside Opera 12. Btw.: I cant login with Opera mobile 12.1 or Opera mini on Android nor Dolphin mini aswell. But UC Browser did work atleast in the "Desktop mode". Seems to be webkit related with msfn.org?! I did learn about css once, but I just wonder why being able to login or not has to do with css. I dont want to do as Im over smart but I always thought CSS is just for design purposes. For me on Windows 98SE loging in to my msfn.org account didnt work with Opera of Firefox. Aswell it strange that hotmail sometimes will open after login attempt other times it wont. MSFN.org however stopped. Strange enough "Combedbird 11" crashed when trying to open the Inbox, an fork of firefox version 3.6 accomplished it. I dont however understand why logging into msfn.org doesnt work. Its really strange since the much older IE6 allowes login on msfn.org but ofcourse with crappy design.

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