crashnburn4u

What is Significance of MSR, SYS, EFI partitions for Win 8.1 Native Boot VHD? How? I ask because I've built and native booted several variations of Win 8.1 VHDs on target SPro 3. I'd like to know pros & cons. CONTEXT: So, with a lot of help and input from multiple amazing people from multiple forums and coming closer to the goal of my project. I have found and tested the ways and means to complete the steps in my project. Some interesting questions and thoughts have come up. (http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/62362-Virtualize-Win8-1-BIOS-MBR-Physical-Partition-gt-to-gt-WIM-Image-gt-to-gt-UEFI-GPT-VHD?p=1085352&viewfull=1#post1085352) PROJECT MILESTONES SO FAR: A - Was able to find articles that help bypassing Sysprep errors on Win 8.1 Did some extensive Driver Cleaning/ Reseting from OEM/Intel/Non MS drivers to MS Win 8.1 native drivers e.g. Prototype sample runs involved Sysprepping Fresh Win 8.1 installs while eliminating issue causing Metro App packages. B - Played with DISM, Disk2VHD, GPTGEN in various configurations with Win 8.1 e.g. Prototype sample runs involved imaging Fresh Win 8.1 MBR/ BIOS installs and converting or applying them to GPT/UEFI VHDs and native booting them in Step C C - Have been able to Native boot Win 8.1 VHDs using BCDBOOT: QUESTIONS & DECISIONS about MSR, SYS, EFI Partitions on Win 8.1 Native Boot VHD: I am left with some final decisions to make and questions.. Before I apply my Customized_Windows.WIM... What kind of Partitioning structure should I CREATE IN/ FOR my FINAL VHD? I ask because I've built and native booted several variations of Win 8.1 VHDs on target SPro 3. Some with Single Partition Volumes and others with Sys+EFI etc. OPTIONS/ EXAMPLES of Sample VHDs executed & installed on Surface Pro 3: [:\Windows] DISM Installed Natively [sys:300M][EFI:100M][:\Windows] Vanilla Install via Hyper V Possibly also doable using VDisk commands via Native Install as well. I guess. Also, during this Vanilla install it was trying to create the MSR partition in addition to the above. I did read about the MSR, SYS, EFI partitions online as well as how OSes can also run without those. https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd799232(v=ws.10).aspx https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd744301(v=ws.10).aspx Also, if ever V2P for Upgrading to Win10 and then P2V again There were some workarounds posted on Technet (need to find link, will find and post) as Windows cant upgrade on Native Boot VHD. BOOT BCDBOOT QUESTION: With single partition volume VHDs, its simple & clear how to APPLY and USE ..BCDBOOT. With these SPECIAL PARTITIONS, I am curious what would the best way to "direct" BCDBOOT > > > ?? From where to where? https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh824874.aspx https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/gg577238.aspx EXISTING HARDWARE PARTITION VOLUMES: SPro 3 HDD (UEFI Only): [sys:350M][EFI:200M][:\Windows][Recovery:5GB] X61T HDD (BIOS Only): [:\Windows]

UPDATE and PROTOTYPE SUCCESS: PEOPLE, FRIENDS, FORUM MEMBERS, ADMINS & MODS - Thanks. I appreciate all the help and cautionary words and I am listening to it all during my experiments. Yes, the goal seems a bit complicated and ambitious but isnt that what we help each other with? Anyways, I was able to achieve "Success" this weekend using ONE pathway for Steps A, B, C outlined below. I'd love it if you can please help me with Steps A, B, C - specific to the other pathways that I have not used or run yet. HISTORY 2014: I tried a similar exercise last year (around Aug 2014) which did not go all the way for various reasons. One large one might be that I was trying to run Win 7 on a new Win 8 machine.. GOAL: So, my goal to Migrate FROM: (My Win 8.x x64 OS + Apps + Settings + Data) on (MBR/BIOS) machine Thinkpad T6x/X6x TO: Semi-portable (UEFI/GPT).VHD that works on UEFI only machines (and GPT also because makes UEFI life easier) (current: Surface Pro 3 for traveling.. will buy new UEFI machine for more processing power). Just copy VHD to internal SSD/ HDD, BCDBoot and go. (The mixed mode variations between MBR/BIOS and UEFI/GPT worlds I havent tried much as its a bit wonky. I may have encountered them last year but easier to stick with one of the extremes) PROJECT BREAKDOWN: My PROJECT INTENT has the following steps: A - Cleanse / Hardware/ Drivers Information - Only ways I found was Manual/ Forced Uninstalls of Drivers and Sysprep (apparently does so). Paragon has an Adjust OS and some other tools that I have yet to try B - Image the existing Drive/ Partition(s) to VHD - ImageX (deprecated) DISM - I've been using it to Apply Images (Win 8.x) to test VHDs. Looking at using it to Image the Partitions/ Disks instead of Disk2VHD as it could give me more granular control. /CaptureImage and /ApplyImage Disk2VHD - Does a nice job of pull the OS into VHD, but it pulls HDD info as it is: - Boot Info - Sector Info - MBR/BIOS Info C - Boot Information BCDedit - Seems to be the way before, but now I think the following two are what I use. BCDBoot - Simple to use EasyBCD - I use it mainly as a supplementary tool - Verify/ Rename/ Cleanup/ Delete - The Entries made by BCDBoot SUCCESS STORY 2015 - Ran this on a fresh installed Win 8.x: What I was able to achieve so far A - Did some stuff manually, but was not able to get Sysprep /GENERALIZE /OOBE work yet. I know the tools intended purpose is not this, but PLEASE help me with "what it does" "how I can leverage what it does" instead of telling me NO. Or Tell me what other ways: Tools, Apps, Scripts I could use for Step A B - I figured given Windows 8 having lot of Native Driver/ Hardware Support it might adapt Disk2VHD the fresh Win 8.x install. Ended up with a MBR .VHD > GPTGEN > GPT .VHD Ran GPTGEN on it (thanks to the steps & tutorials from last year) C - Just ran a simple BCDBOOT with GPT .VHD... Voila Success. I was able to boot in, out, etc. I could do the same with My main Win8.x OS Disk, but would like to have a better way for Steps A - Sysprep /Generalize OR B - DISM /Capture-Image with /CaptureDir (from Disk to .WIM) and /ApplyImage to fresh .VHD C - BCDBoot Seems to work easy breezy So, please share ways and means on how I could improve for A, B PS: I have access to Pro and Enterprise Licenses so please do not make that a concern right now. MS Gold Partners / MSDN/ etc etc.

My own personal pattern to create a new image. 1. Deploy OS from DVD to environment* with answer file to put OS in Audit Mode, only have 1 partition. 2. Sysprep /generalize /audit /shutdown. 3. Capture image with DISM (Imagex is technically deprecated and still only has 1 real purpose... exporting images) 4. Add drivers (INF) and updates (MSU) to image with DISM. * regarding your second question, using either a Hyper-V or physical hardware is determined solely on what you have access to and/or find easier. I personally do not use VMs at all for making images and instead only use actual hardware. IMO, using the actual hardware the images are being designed for helps you better understand what settings or quirks those particular systems may have, also then you can provide info to who is going to be using the image if it isn't you. Rule of thumb regarding what not to do. Do not choose a Network Location when prompted with Vista or Win7 images. Thank you so much for sharing those insights. I am wondering if it would be much more than I need/ bargained for.. The current goal is "personal" to move a personal use OS from physical OS partition (MBR + BIOS) into a .VHD for GOOD. This VHD will be my go to system even if I move it from Hardware to hardware - (Eventually I might convert the Win 8.x Pro to Enterprise for the WTG functionality) I wish to move the System, OS, Apps, Settings, Files everything AS IS, but CLEANSE/ ELIMINATE the Hardware Profile/ Drivers or be AGNOSTIC to them. To avoid the issues around MBR/BIOS to GPT/UEFI system I intend to use WIM as an intermediary stage. The key question I have is how best to CLEANSE the Driver/ Hardware INFO from the OS, before it becomes a WIM. So, I was introduced to the SYSPREP process here.. (link below) where they use the /GENERALIZE /OOBE switch. I am wondering if I need to bother learning about the /AUDIT mode? http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/135077-windows-7-installation-transfer-new-computer.html My goal is not to be a System Admin and image hundreds of Systems. But, need to know how to "manipulate" cleanse and move my image between hardware. My goal is to completely ISOLATE and ABSTRACT my Primary use OS (Win 8.x at the moment) to a Native Boot VHD that can move to Surface Pro 3 (primarily) and if there is need of more computing power move to Powerful Laptop to Workstation Desktop (back & forth) when needed. Something like this is being done by a guy here using WTG/ Win 8.x Enterprise. http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/61816-Windows-10-To-Go?p=1060848&viewfull=1#post1060848 http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/61816-Windows-10-To-Go?p=1061495&viewfull=1#post1061495 I want to start with Pro and if my Portability between machines is very frequent I will go for WTG on W8.x Enterprise. Given this information, should I still learn about the Audit mode stuff? What benefits/ features will that entail me given my current goals.

Additionally, after I have learnt this, I'd like to figure out how to "Driverize" and "Un-driverize/ Cleanse" during this WIM > VHD process if / when I choose to move between machines with different hardware. I read a little about MDT a few days back. PS: Lets not go there, yet, until we have sorted out the original questions/ answers.

Thanks that was some amazing edu-ma-cation haha.. I've just been away from the hardcore boot side of things when I had multi boot partitions over SCSI drives Anyways, as the OP for the moment I am not so interested in compressed WIM boots. The current intent is to only use WIM as a 'intermediary' 'agnostic' 'isolating' 'abstracting' stage / state. I will learn more about WIMs later. That being said, Could you please shed some light on "how"/ "when" "where" would you suggest "h/w & driver profile cleansing" SYSPREPs in the above steps (posted). I read somewhere / an MVP had suggested doing Sysprep on a Virtual Machine (Hyper V etc); for some reason - not sure if I remember but maybe something to do with less conflicting hardware + driver state. PS: Experiences of errors/ issues/ troubles anyone has faced in doing Syspreps that I can avoid by taking cautionary steps ??

Virtualize Win8.1: BIOS + MBR Physical Partition > to > WIM Image > to > UEFI GPT VHD Virtualizing Win8.1 from BIOS + MBR Physical Partition > to > .WIM Image > to > UEFI GPT .VHD Sometime last year I found out about Native boot VHDs and tried to go that way for good. There were some issues with hardware and OS (Win7 at the time) not working out and lot of new things that I was learning about VHDs. Anyways, that confusion, learning and failure led to a better path So this 2015, I figured out how to get VHDs (with Fresh Win 8.1 Installs via Install.WIM DISM Apply Image) to Native Boot on Surface Pro 3 (Sp3). I am going to attempt doing the following steps using DISM/ ImageX: MBR [Customized Win 8.1] (Physical) > Create Image > [Customized Win 8.1 .WIM] (Virtual - File based so - No sectors or MBR/GPT?? ). [Customized Win 8.1 .WIM] (Virtual) > Apply Image > [Empty New GPT .VHD] (on SP3) My thought is that by going to .WIM I bypass the whole converstion drama between MBR/BIOS & GPT/UEFI as the .WIM is agnostic of both of them? Is this a valid thought or not? Thoughts? NOTE: I can.. try out the above with creating a small FRESH MBR Windows 8.1 partition on X61T/ T61 and then doing the above 2 steps. Convert it to a .WIM and then applying to a GPT .VHD I am guessing a SYSPREP is recommended somewhere in between. Someone somewhere also mentioned doing Sysprep in a VM/ Hyper V instead? Or is it not needed? Thoughts? Where and how would you recommend applying the SYSPREP?

Thanks for the tip.. It would've be easy to do that if this was not a Laptop Either way, I upgraded to Win 7 > 8 > 8.1 and the new Disk Cleanup with System Files Cleaning is "nice" So, I might not have to go with this. Lets see until I come to this bridge again. It was a question I was curious about as I saw it suggested online.

Just did a test Win 7 > 8 > 8.1 on a Cloned partition Its working. But, I found an interesting "thing" or a bug or how it works. A bunch installed programs now show "install date" as the day of Windows 8/8.1 Upgrade. I like to be able to see what was installed when and now and then remove stuff. I am not sure whether Win 7 > Win 8 did it or next > Win 8.1 I think it might have been Win 8.1 doing a "reinstall" programs/ applications (if I saw that happening late night on the screen). Thoughts? Is this something that's by design? Also, is there any easy way to "pre-choose" some of the options that come on Win 8 & 8.1 Update Screens (ahead of time) instead of being there to click them all. (yeah im familiar with Unattended installs).. I'd like to do that but without having to pick and click each option when I run this late night.

Thanks for the insights. I am gonna read through this.. Yes its an SSD Slowly gradually moving it towards Win 8/ 8.1 without losing existing Apps/ Settings etc. http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/174052-boot-win-7-paritition-copied-to-empty-space-after-win-xp-on-old-hdd/

Boot Win 7 Paritition copied to Empty space after Win XP on old HDD? I plan to upgrade my main OS from Win 7 SP1 x64 to 8 to 8.1. But to take the risk out of it... I copied my main Win 7 Partition from my SSD to Empty space on old HDD after Win XP partition. (at night.. so I dont have to wait around for 200+ GB going over) SSD 240 GB: [system Reserved: 200 MB] [sSD_P1 240GB] HDD 320GB: [Win XP 33GB] [sSD_P1 Copy 240GB ][Free Space][OEM Recovery partition] I copied this using Paragon HDM 12 Pro I did not copy the [system Reserved] partition as I wasnt sure how it would fit in.. and since its 200 MB, should be easier to "move" / "copy" if needed. Now, I read that there is a way to make Win 7 bootable without the SysRrv 200 MB partition. Or do I need to copy the 200 M partition? Is there a way to make the Win 7 boot while letting the rest of the MBR & booters (Win XP and OEM Recovery) continue working? What way should I follow? What steps should I take? PPS: Once this experiment is successful, I'd like to upgrade my SSD with Win 8.. But I am wondering if I should keep the 200 M partn around or merge it.. It just creates additional 'partition's to worry about. What are the pros & cons of that?

Windows NTFS Compression and Native Boot VHD/ VHDX? Issues or Conflicts? I am currently cleaning out my Windows 7 x64 Ultimate SP1 for a 2 step upgrade > Win 8 > Win 8.1 and then will convert it to VHD. I have this \Windows\Installer folder that is taking a lot of space and seems to be unused mostly. Eventually, I wish to clean it out/ delete it or major stuff inside it. But, till then I was considering "compressing" option it as suggested here instead of delete/ remap right now. http://superuser.com/questions/23479/is-it-safe-to-delete-from-c-windows-installer http://superuser.com/questions/707767/how-can-i-to-free-up-drive-space-from-the-windows-installer-folder-without-killi If I do this right now (during Win 7 > 8 > 8.1) I am wondering this will cause any issues creatingin or running the VHD? I googled around for VHD and NTFS compression and did not find anything good or bad either way (with exception that Windows XP and VHD had some issues) http://blogs.msdn.com/b/virtual_pc_guy/archive/2007/05/24/be-careful-with-vhds-and-windows-xp-compressed-folders.aspx

Love it. Thanks. You are a life saver : )

Thanks guys This will be my experiments for the next few days. I will read and follow every step and option.. yeah I know.. too many steps as Wonko also pointed out on Reboot.Pro PS: cdob - I will try to find some DVDs burn Windows 7 on them and see if the boot on UEFI. Any particular MSDN / Digital River ISOs you'd recommend / know of that will WORK? PPS: I have a spare HDD (cant open laptop).. But I can attach via USB.. DO you think I should try installing and booting Windows 7 off that on a Partition? Just to see whether this Laptop will at all support Windows 7 in ANY mode?

Aren't you "gold partners for decades"? http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/172462-migrating-windows-7-or-8-install-from-bios-machine-to-native-boot-vhd/?p=1084106 You may be able to use your contacts at MS and ask them about that OS key, the one NoelC fell for is (was) a temporary promotional offer for Media Center given away for free, not for the "whole OS" in "upgrade" version at 14.99 unstead of 39.99.. However: http://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/41771-has-it-for-sure-been-verified-the-upgrade-keys-will-not-expire jaclaz jacazz - Yes. But with great power comes, great responsibility. Asking here for things I cant or don't wish to bug them about.

I dont even care for AERO, TRANSPARENCY and the COLORS you have. I want Windows 2000. Simple and light Grey. No Dark or bright tones. Office 2013 is too WASHED OUT WHITE.. So bit of the Gray is better.

There are some vitual hardware, especial the graphic card including the VGA BIOS.Native booting uses native graphic card including the VGA BIOS or firmare. What about the real DVD Windows 7 UEFI booting? I get that. With Windows 7 on the VHD it would boot initially and get stuck later at Logo With Windows 8(upgraded to from win 7), the VHD, it gets gets stuck earlier before boot My biggest question here is this - Do VHD's need to have or follow certain STRUCTURE to Native Boot? Will some structures fail to boot? I think there's something wrong with the STRUCTURE of my VHD. Can/ should VHDs have PreOS 'Special' Partitions or NOT? Most people are saying they are equivalent of having a PHYSICAL HDD. But, has anyone had MULTIPLE PARTITIONS on a VHD and try MULTI BOOTING from them? Because something is OFF with my VIRTUAL PARTITIONS.

What kind of KEYS do EXPIRE? Please share. I have a Win 8 key I bought for 14.99 when the Upgrade option was out for short time. Havent used it yet, and dont plan to until I get new machine. Should I use it on some machine and then transfer later?

Even now I use Classic Shell in Win 7 and make things look like Windows 2000. I like OSX and Windows 2000, look which is mostly GRAY shades and less TONE/ COLOR for OS. Let Icons and Programs & Apps stand out a bit. I like keeping Office 2013 at Dark Gray. So based on the above,.. what would you recommend? Whats the best 'minimalistic' Classic or Classic like, Gray (Light, Mid or Dark) theme that you'd recommend?

Ok, I am kind of giving up on Windows 7. So, just to test the ability and issues around this new Toshiba Laptop and Native booting,Using these simple steps https://4sysops.com/archives/native-vhd-boot-in-windows-8/ I ImageX 2 VHDs with fresh install from Win 8 and Win 8.1 each.Did a simple bcdboot ?:\Windows to added them to Boot Menu. They are running fine. W8.VHD GPT [Simple Volume]W81.VHD GPT [Simple Volume]They have a simple single volume structure and no System, EFI or MSR Partitions within For some reason the VHDs I have created from my Source Machine are working with Hyper-V & VMWare.But not working Native Boot. So, I am wondering if it has something due to the Primary OS Parition and Pre OS partition (Reserved, EFI, System, MSR) structures? Please don't ignore the following Paragraph: I think this is a key issue where I am making some mistake with the VHDs or its Structure and Inter Partition mapping I need to figure out the following: X) - STRUCTURES of VHDs that work fine for Native Booting e.g. Should they have Simple Volume Primary partitions ONLY? AND/ OR they will be fine with/without Virtual EFI, System, MSR, Reserved etc. Internal to VHD i.e. Virtual Partitions that will work without issues. Y) - Right WAY to IMAGE Existing machine: (Full DIsk w PreOS Partitions or Only OS Partition) and MAP the IMAGE to the correct part of the STRUCTURE of VHDs (as outlined above) Now, the VHD I have from my source system has gone through following changes: Original & Current Source System- MBR [1/200 MB Reserved/SystemPartition][Primary Partition Win7x64 SP1] >> Disk2VHDW7-MBR.VHD- MBR [1/200 MB Reserved/SystemPartition][Primary Partition Win7x64 SP1](Works in Hyper-V + VMWare, NOT Native Boot) >> Converted to GPT VHD with using gptgen and added System + MSR Partition as outlined here - http://www.dertechblog.de/en/2014/01/howto-hyper-v-gen1-vm-convert-gen2-vm/W7-GPT.VHD - GPT [EFI:100,FAT32, "System",S:][MSR:128][][Primary Partition Win7x64 SP1]>> EFI boot files copied to “System” Partition i.e. Virtual EFI partition The important UEFI boot files will then use the tool bcdboot copied to the system partition. Where h corresponds: the drive letter of the virtual Windows partition and s: the drive letter of the virtual EFI partition: bcdboot h:\windows /s s: /f UEFI(Works in VMWare with EFI, NOT Native Boot .. Windows 7 issues as pointed out in first post) (So, I figured lets take this VHD to Windows 8)>> Upgraded to Win8 inside VMWare >> SYSPREPW7to8-GPT.VHD - GPT [EFI:100,FAT32, "System",S:][MSR:128][][Primary Partition Win8x64 Pro]( Native boot still does not work | VMWare booting works) Error on screen for this Most current error for this Win 7 upgraded to Win 8 VHD RECOVERYYour PC needs to be repairedThe operating system couldn't be located because the system registry file is missing or contains errors File: \Windows\System32\config\systemError Code: 0xc0000000dYou'll need to use the recovery tools on your installation media. If you dont have any installation media (like a disc or USB device), contact your system administrator or PC manufacturerI guess the typical reply would be to try and REPAIR this OS. But, I think OS is working (in VMWre), but some part of the FLOW of BOOTING to Native VHD has some issue. i.e from Firmware > HDD Host EFI > [VHD > Virtual EFI Partition > VIrtual OS Partition]On the other VHDs the flow is probably this: Firmware > HDD Host EFI > [VHD > VIrtual OS Partition]Do you get what I am saying here? So I am wondering of the following.. where is the error coming into the picture:- While CREATING/ IMAGING the VHD? - While converting from MBR to VHD? - While/ DUE to INSERTING the Virtual EFI & MSR partitions? - Would it be better not to have these in the VHD? Or something was done wrong with them?- Would it be better to only IMAGE the OS Partition, and image it to a blank Partition on the GPT VHD? (Avoid conversion) I don't mind doing a FRESH IMAGING of the OLD MACHINE. I will have to do it anyways as the OLD MACHINE has changed in last few weeks of this experiment. But, I'd like to do it RIGHT this time and Create the Correct VHD structure to support it. Use ImageX or DISM instead of Disk2VHD if you guys think thats better. PS: The last time I ran a recovery disc to try and fix the Win7to8.VHD, it ended up messing up my Host HDD Win8 booting. How can I avoid that if at all you are suggesting some STEPS to REPAIR the Win7to8.VHD

So, Windows 7 UEFI/ GPT will not work, especially from Native Boot VHD? My original machine has a MBR-BIOS system which I imaged to VHD using Disk2VHD and then converted to GPT+UEFI hoping it will work with UEFI firmware in that mode. So, now the key question is, if I have a GPT Hard-drive with Win8.1 Pre installed, could I boot a native Win7 VHD (stored on that drive/ partition) at all (In UEFI or CSM Mode)? If so, how? Or Would mixed mode booting just not work? Thanks. I will check it out (had used RW everything once). I am wondering where and what section I need to be looking for that Information.

So is it possible my new Toshiba wont support GOP at all and if so, Windows 7 will not work on it? Is there a "technical" way to check the BIOS for it? Some tool, code or script? Cause inside I see no option for it

So its possible that the new laptop I have may not support Windows 7 at all? So I think I will upgrade my Win7 to Win8 with Programs & Apps & Settings etc. Should I test a "Base Native Boot Win 8 VHD" on the machine first and then PORT the image from existing install? Ok. So, what would be the best way to migrate my existing Installation to Native boot VHD WIn 8?

Also Andre - Would you mind going through my thread (linked below) and sharing some thoughts on what might be good way to proceed (steps) towards Native Boot VHD (Even if I let go of Windows 7 and choose to go to Win 8/ 8.1?) Please do share your thoughts. Thanks. http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/172462-migrating-windows-7-or-8-install-from-bios-machine-to-native-boot-vhd/

Also, lets assume GOP and Windows 7 might not work at all. Then, I dont mind moving to Windows 8/8.1 with Native Boot VHD. In that scenario, what would be the best way to "migrate" the OS Partition/ Disk from Old System to a Native Boot VHD

Do you think a PURE windows 7 install on a Partition or a Hard Drive would work from CSM Mode? Given that GOP option is not there in current BIOS?