Super Vista... sort of...

[Stead]

Hrmm, About the slowness at startup I find for about 3-4 weeks vista is very fast at startup (well under a minute), but then I get the same thing, it seems to be doing something, I noticed it in the beta quicker and thought it was fixed in the retail, I find it annoying as my wireless connection connects immediatly but it doesn't show connected up to the net until its finished doing whatever its doing...

also i tried removing superfetch with vlite, and I much prefer having everything launch instantly, anyone who says it reduces peformance I don't belive has tried it.

one thing i noticed, hibernation seems to take forever to restore on my computer, its much quicker to boot up (less than 3 minutes to be ready) but if i hibernate it takes about 10-12 minutes before everything is smooth again,

[gdogg]

I found readyboost a slow down big time.

I have 2GB of ram, and put on a ocz rally 2 4GB key, let it use 3.7GB of it, like it recommended, it would make shutdown about 2 minutes vs just a few seconds.

Also startup was slowed big time. This could be due to the 4 drive raid 0 vista was on, on the ich8r chipset, why its so much faster then readyboost.

Just my 2 cents.

Superprefetch though, love it, never giving that service up.

[raymerjacque]

RUBBISH !!!!

It depends on what you do with your system, Superfetch is not beneficial to everyone. you have 2 types of users :

1 . Non Gamers

2 . Gamers.

1. Non Gamers

Non gamers will most likely be running office 2007, adobe reader, macromedia studio, Autocad etc .. , basicly alot of programs that don't require an obscene amount of memory but due to virus scanners and lot of files among other things have a delayed startup time.

For this user superfetch is great, because it stores most used applications in assigned memory and programs open faster.

Thus if you are a non gamer it is advised to keep the superfetch feature.

2. Gamers

Gamers especialy the serious gamer will be playing most of the hit titles such as "gothic 3" and "command and conquerer 3" etc ... And these games require a hell of alot of ram, if you don't have 2GB of ram in your system you will suffer while playing these titles.

The last thing you need as a gamer is for 600mb or 800mb of your ram to be tighed up in superfetch, with superfetch feature enabled you will definitely see a performance drop while gaming, maybe not noticbly with smaller games, but with some of the newest Ram hungry games it is garunteed.

It is Advised to disable the superfetch feature for Gamers.

( lastly, if you remove the search function in vlite you will still be able to use windows search, it will just be alot slower. )

[Jeronimo]

@raymerjacque could you provide us with information, where you got this wisdom?

[raymerjacque]

@raymerjacque could you provide us with information, where you got this wisdom?

Personal experience. it is my job to load windows 200 times a week on different pc's.

I am a serious gamer too , but i do alot of work in office and cad too. so really i am the third type, i workin both worlds .I have also been running and installing and testing vista since before beta even, back when it was still known as longhorn, so i am not new to this scene.

but if you want a second opinion you can searh around on the net, you will find other people discussing these issues as well and coming to the same conclusions.

put it this way here is an example :

Ram on pc is 2GB

Example 1 ( superfetch on )

1. your vista takes 450mb of ram.

2. superfetch takes an additional 400mb of ram ( this ram is locked and cannot be accessed. )

you start gothic 3 ( game uses between 900mb and 1500mb ram. )

3. free ram on system = 1150mb

4. game gets to 1150mb but needs more, what happens now ??

5. game starts using virtual memory to make up for ram needed ( virtual ram is very slow )

6. because virtual ram is slow, your game suffers from lag spikes during fighting or when alot of activity is on the screne, also loading times are alot longer now.

second example :

( superfetch off )

1. vista takes 400mb of ram

you start gothic 3 ( game uses between 900mb and 1500mb ram. )

2. game is running smooth now because even in intense battles when the ram usage required gets close to 1.5gb your pc can provide the needed ram.

3. loading times are much faster now because there is additional ram to make use of.

----------------------------------

understand now ?

running apps like office and autocad that require 200mb of ram or even 500mb of ram are not as memory hungry, so superfetch is great because you can afford to waste the extra ram which in turn speeds up your pc. but when you cannot afford that memory to be wasted superfetch will infact slow down your box.

make sense ?

Edited April 19, 2007 by raymerjacque

[gdogg]

@raymerjacque could you provide us with information, where you got this wisdom?

Personal experience. it is my job to load windows 200 times a week on different pc's.

I am a serious gamer too , but i do alot of work in office and cad too. so really i am the third type, i workin both worlds .I have also been running and installing and testing vista since before beta even, back when it was still known as longhorn, so i am not new to this scene.

but if you want a second opinion you can searh around on the net, you will find other people discussing these issues as well and coming to the same conclusions.

put it this way here is an example :

Ram on pc is 2GB

Example 1 ( superfetch on )

1. your vista takes 450mb of ram.

2. superfetch takes an additional 400mb of ram ( this ram is locked and cannot be accessed. )

you start gothic 3 ( game uses between 900mb and 1500mb ram. )

3. free ram on system = 1150mb

4. game gets to 1150mb but needs more, what happens now ??

5. game starts using virtual memory to make up for ram needed ( virtual ram is very slow )

6. because virtual ram is slow, your game suffers from lag spikes during fighting or when alot of activity is on the screne, also loading times are alot longer now.

second example :

( superfetch off )

1. vista takes 400mb of ram

you start gothic 3 ( game uses between 900mb and 1500mb ram. )

2. game is running smooth now because even in intense battles when the ram usage required gets close to 1.5gb your pc can provide the needed ram.

3. loading times are much faster now because there is additional ram to make use of.

----------------------------------

understand now ?

running apps like office and autocad that require 200mb of ram or even 500mb of ram are not as memory hungry, so superfetch is great because you can afford to waste the extra ram which in turn speeds up your pc. but when you cannot afford that memory to be wasted superfetch will infact slow down your box.

make sense ?

I have to completely disagree with your logic.

My games in vista start faster than ever, especially those than need a disc in drive, vista does really well at paging that stuff it put into memory when you start the game.

To me, I have seen nothing but benifits from super-prefetch, in both 1GB and 2GB setups.

Soon I will have a dx10 card, and 4GB of ram. I will love if vista uses ~70% of the 4GB due to superprefetch too.

[raymerjacque]

hmmm, how can i say this without sounding rude ???

PLEASE - compare your system to 80% of the people on this website that are trying to get vista running on 512mb ( at most 1gb ) systems. until you have used an avarage system like that on a daily basis with and without superfetch i don't believe you have a say in this conversation.

your system FAR exceeds the needed requirements and thus you don't feel the superfetch knock. people here are going over the edge in trying to make vista run on bare minimum and you talking about 4gb systems with dx10 cards.....

so please stick to what you know.

Edited April 19, 2007 by raymerjacque

[Jeronimo]

I am also still not convinced. I understand the concept of ReadyBoost and Superfetch and both can be of no use in certain environments.

Someone who opens his E-mail and webbrowser and uses those 2 applications during a specific amount of time, will not benefit from Superfetch that much, nor will someone who will start up his pc and then 1 game. However it does not hut either, I have to see the facts before I will believe that Superfetch locks memory required by other applications. If your application requires a certain amount of memory, then Superfetch will release this. Off course this will take time, but I do not think it is swapped to disk or the game uses swap space instead (e.g. pagefile).

ReadyBoost is a nice addition especially for systems with less environment, it is a level of caching between memory and pagefile, which can be very quick for small files. It is not a replacement for memory or pagefile, it is a compliment for both (quick access because it does not have to come from disk, but it will not be required to be kept in memory).

THG has some nice benchmarks on both, although I have not seen any real life examples, which state that either service has a positive or negative impact. Fractions of seconds have been scientifically proven to be of great importance to how efficient people work. If people are to wait over a fifth of a second, their efficiency decreases. But if this is relevant, when you start an application? I think it would matter when you are busy within an application, but if it would matter when you just start.

I still need to be convinced of the up- or downside, however the implementation of the functions and the few reviews I have seen (THG as stated above) leads me to believe it will not hurt enabling them.

[redxii]

I disabled superfetch once I found out it was caching movie files I've viewed (process monitor). Most people only view videos once and the player (VLC) is set to cache one second. I only disabled the service. I never remove services.

Edited April 19, 2007 by redxii

[gdogg]

hmmm, how can i say this without sounding rude ???

PLEASE - compare your system to 80% of the people on this website that are trying to get vista running on 512mb ( at most 1gb ) systems. until you have used an avarage system like that on a daily basis with and without superfetch i don't believe you have a say in this conversation.

your system FAR exceeds the needed requirements and thus you don't feel the superfetch knock. people here are going over the edge in trying to make vista run on bare minimum and you talking about 4gb systems with dx10 cards.....

so please stick to what you know.

I do know this, we are in the day's of directx 10 cards, 4GB of ram, and shortly solid state disk's but especially hybrid hard drive's becoming the common.

Why would you even want to do vista unless you planned on playing directx 10 games, needing a directx 10 card.

I see that I know a huge amount more about the user base of vista, and especially what a "Gamers" pc is, voiding all your points about superprefetch for gamers.

You think in 2 years, my current pc is going to be anything but the norm. I think you need to get out of your vista on a crud old pc testing and get realistic. Vista is about hardware advancements and a new OS based around these hardware advances, not to be run on a pc best suited for a nlited windows, because it can't even run a full version of xp well.

Vlite so far, has done nothing but remove stuff, leaving alot of resources to be free'd. Most of which I do on my pc (wow someone with a pc like mine actually disabled every service except what is needed for bootup, using the pc, gaming the UI, and lastly superprefetch).

I still use a full version of vista x64, why? Because vlite offered no benifit as of yet, I am waiting for it to offer more of what nlite has, services controls, patching of usb/tcp/themes/ etc.

But mainly I am more worried that something might not work under a vlite'd windows, like something that was needed for dx10.

edit

I just re-read what you said about superprefetch and gothica game. You obviously have no idea at all of how super-prefetch works. But your debating like you do.

"you start gothic 3 ( game uses between 900mb and 1500mb ram. )

3. free ram on system = 1150mb

4. game gets to 1150mb but needs more, what happens now ??

5. game starts using virtual memory to make up for ram needed ( virtual ram is very slow )

6. because virtual ram is slow, your game suffers from lag spikes during fighting or when alot of activity is on the screne, also loading times are alot longer now."

3. yah

4. wrong, as the game starts or any app that needs the memory, its given to it, this is similar to how os x works, and linux, its how new operating systems work, its the efficient way of doing things.

5. game doesn't use virtual memory, the super-prefetch data might, but never the game unless their is not enough system ram for the game in the first place, regardless of super-prefetch

6. wrong, maybe some reading might solve your issue here.

and no, this isn't meant to sound rude, but I don't know how I can tell you you are wrong without offending you.

Edited April 20, 2007 by gdogg

[XL-DJK]

I don't know what crack you smoke but I've completely normal install of XP Pro SP2....only thing tweaked is my Processor LOL and my whole system will shutdown (timed 2 and from the Desktop) and fully restart and be DONE loading in less than 39 seconds.....

[gdogg]

I don't know what crack you smoke but I've completely normal install of XP Pro SP2....only thing tweaked is my Processor LOL and my whole system will shutdown (timed 2 and from the Desktop) and fully restart and be DONE loading in less than 39 seconds.....

Would be nice if you could of quoted someone?

Who are you directing this to?

Normally when you do that, your directing it to the above post and if your directing it to my post, obviously I am not the one smoking the crack.

Edited April 20, 2007 by gdogg

[raymerjacque]

No foul language or abuse of other members permited...

[gdogg]

Yah you did attempt to start a flame war, and no I will not be involved in your childish behavior.

No where in your quotes did super-prefetch come into the topic.

I have reported you, and I hope you get your post removed, as I said it was childish behavior nothing more.

I made many valid points in my posts, and refrained from insulting you, and like I though, you got offened by being told you were wrong, thanks and welcome to msfn, where people act civil.

Edited April 20, 2007 by TAiN
Quote from above

[tain]

Question seems to be answered. Kane, please start a new topic if needed, or PM me.

All: Let's keep the language clean and the debate mature.

[ closed ]