user57 Posted January 9 Posted January 9 i really dont understand the hate for the old operating systems why someone cant go online with a win98 machine using IE6 ? it was never a problem even win10 apeared, neither it was when win2000, xp, vista and 7 where out it seems it wasnt enough to take out the IE11 either, they took just a google chrome fork called EDGE but then the problems apeared rather in like 2018
cc333 Posted January 11 Posted January 11 (edited) On 1/9/2025 at 9:21 AM, user57 said: i really dont understand the hate for the old operating systems Neither do I! My favorite Windows is 95, followed by (in order from most to least): 98 SE, 2000, XP, and 7. I don't care much for 8.x, but I've found that with some effort, it can be rendered mostly sane. 10 is harder, and it has a tendency to self destruct, so I try to avoid it. Since I use Apple MacOS primarily, I don't need to bother with the latest Windows. On 1/9/2025 at 9:21 AM, user57 said: why someone cant go online with a win98 machine using IE6 ? it was never a problem even win10 apeared, neither it was when win2000, xp, vista and 7 where out it seems it wasnt enough to take out the IE11 either, they took just a google chrome fork called EDGE but then the problems apeared rather in like 2018 2018, I believe, was about when Google (I think) told everyone to mandate https and TLS1.2, among other things, and naturally most sites complied. This, of course, broke virtually all older browsers, which lack support for modern security protocols. A couple years later (2020) for similar reasons, MS began breaking Windows Update for older Windows, like 2000 and XP (via extraordinary measures, some degree of WU functionality remains, but stock WU is completely broken now). There's not much that cn be done about WU, but as for ancient browsers, if you set up a proxy that handles the security, things get better, but then they get choked up on the rampant javascript. If you strip that out too, you can still get a weirdly rendered, but somewhat usable page which is usually good enough for basic text. This can be fixed somewhat by web proxies that can reformat a page into something more usable that old browsers can render more or less correctly, but ultimately a current browser is needed for full functionality. c Edited January 11 by cc333
NotHereToPlayGames Posted January 11 Posted January 11 2 minutes ago, vinifera said: hate is childish; if it aint newest then it sucks ... I think that was supposed to read: <font: sarcasm;>hate is childish; if it aint newest then it sucks ...</font>
Radish Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 12/21/2024 at 12:58 AM, sunryze said: I expect Copilot to eventually go the way of Cortana at some point. Well that couldn't come soon enough and good riddance to it. However, my keyboard on my laptop has a damned 'Copilot' key on it which is put there at the great cost of the length of the Space Bar which makes the Space Bar difficult to use — Microsoft, the gift that keeps on giving.
cc333 Posted January 29 Posted January 29 (edited) Speaking of irrational hatred of old operating systems.... I just remembered an anecdote of mine from a programming class several years ago (I think it was 2017 or so). The instructor was very much one of those "newer is better" people, and actively shunned anything that wasn't "now" and encouraged all his students to do the same. So what did I do? I brought in and used my Dell Latitude D630 (then about 11 years old) running Windows 2000 (then at least 16 years old, and 7 years out of date), and, via blackwingcat's Extended Kernel, I was able to run the then-current versions of Java and Notepad++ and complete my assignments just as well as my classmates with their fancy Windows 10-based stuff. I didn't have to do this (I had a nice, then-current Apple MacBook Pro I could've used instead), so why did I? Well, mainly to prove that I could. Plus it was fun to spite the instructor and prove to him that old computers can still be useful (he was rather arrogant and I didn't like him very much). c Edited January 29 by cc333 Must I always have a reason?
D.Draker Posted January 29 Posted January 29 11 hours ago, cc333 said: The instructor was very much one of those "newer is better" people, and actively shunned anything that wasn't "now" and encouraged all his students to do the same. So what did I do? I brought in and used my Dell Latitude D630 (then about 11 years old) running Windows 2000 (then at least 16 years old, and 7 years out of date), and, via blackwingcat's Extended Kernel, I was able to run the then-current versions of Java and Notepad++ and complete my assignments just as well as my classmates with their fancy Windows 10-based stuff. While I feel you, it's not completely fair because they don't teach on customised and/or hacked software. Modified kernel is still a hack, and your favourite Windows 2000 would be a corpse without it, let's face it. While in 2017-2019, Vista was still kicking arse without any kernels. That would be a much fairer comparison to Windows 11. 2
cc333 Posted January 29 Posted January 29 58 minutes ago, D.Draker said: While I feel you, it's not completely fair because they don't teach on customised and/or hacked software. Modified kernel is still a hack, and your favourite Windows 2000 would be a corpse without it, let's face it. While in 2017-2019, Vista was still kicking arse without any kernels. That would be a much fairer comparison to Windows 11. True, but I mainly used the Extended Kernel to gain access to a more modern web browser; Then-recent versions of Java and Notepad++ ran fine without it. c
NotHereToPlayGames Posted January 29 Posted January 29 3 hours ago, cc333 said: to gain access to a more modern web browser It's rather ironic how that is always the bottom line.
D.Draker Posted January 29 Posted January 29 12 hours ago, NotHereToPlayGames said: It's rather ironic how that is always the bottom line. No, it's only for those who use their PCs for browsing. The most severe cutting point is DirectX version, at least since 2001. XP was pointless for many people since it's DX9.0 only, the same as 2000, whereas Vista boosted it up to 10, then 11. Win7 was pointless since it's only 11, the same as Vista. Heck, 8 and 8-1/2 were also pointless, they still didn't reach DirectX 12. 2
D.Draker Posted January 29 Posted January 29 15 hours ago, cc333 said: Then-recent versions of Java I tremble in fear when I hear Java, I'd never allowed anyone near any of my computers with Java. 2
NotHereToPlayGames Posted January 29 Posted January 29 11 hours ago, D.Draker said: No, it's only for those who use their PCs for browsing. The most severe cutting point is DirectX version, at least since 2001. I don't even know what DirectX "does", to be honest. My computer is used solely for browsing and spreadsheeting. No arcade games of any kind. But I am on DirectX 12.
D.Draker Posted January 29 Posted January 29 12 hours ago, NotHereToPlayGames said: I don't even know what DirectX "does", to be honest. Strange, it's around us for a quarter of century. It's a very important part of any system, the usage is wide, from Video Acceleration (DXVA) to gaming. https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/what-is-directx/#dt-heading-what-is-directx 2
D.Draker Posted January 29 Posted January 29 12 hours ago, NotHereToPlayGames said: But I am on DirectX 12. It's fake, the integrated card of the oldish (15 years old, or so) i7-4770 can't do DX12. Windows emulates it in soft mode. It would be painfully slow, if you start even simple gaming. Windows 10 reports 12 simply because it's the default DX on Win10. The same as Vista reports its default DX11, even if it runs on a 10-only GPU. 2
NotHereToPlayGames Posted January 30 Posted January 30 18 hours ago, D.Draker said: Strange, it's around us for a quarter of century. For YOU, perhaps. If it isn't needed to "browse" the internet, then my computer has NO USE for it. If it isn't needed to "spreadsheet" finances and rental properties, then my computer has NO USE for it. I do use a few 3D CAD programs. I kind of suspect that they use DirectX "somehow". No clue. 17 hours ago, D.Draker said: It would be painfully slow, if you start even simple gaming. You still do not believe me? I do not use my computer for "games".
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