AstroSkipper Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 7 hours ago, Jody Thornton said: However people like moonbat are the most toxic, and Moonchild is very disingenuous. Correct, compact characterisation. 26 minutes ago, UCyborg said: Though I'm of opinion that a lot of choice is a double-edged sword. And new tech stuff constantly coming out or existing stuff changing can leave one apathetic in the end. It looks like the browser world is about to shrink a little. At least for me. Chrome 127 is definitely the end for me. A browser like that has to be avoided. And there seem to be many users who feel the same way. The reason for this is, of course, manifest 3 and the associated restrictions on extensions, which are particularly tragic for content blockers like uBlock Origin. Personally, I'm happy to use New Moon 28, Serpent and Mypal 68 and will continue to do so for as long as possible. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCyborg Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Perhaps win32 will be able to keep Manifest V2 in Supermium, it should land in Thorium as well. My remark about choice and apathy was meant to be more general, more broad, not limited to web browsers or even computers. I made a bit ranty / rude post a while back on PM forum about them switching 64-bit builds to require AVX (1) instruction set, they deleted it. Still wonder where it makes significant difference compared to SSE2 build. I've been using contributed AVX2 build on work laptop for a while, but I'm not sure I'm detecting much regarding performance. What little I did turned out to be more related to clean session vs dirty session. I think only clever manual coding could speed it up significantly...maybe, Mozilla couldn't do it with keeping all the cruft for extensibility. This whole thing reminds me of one aspect in gaming world, (G)ZDoom source port of Doom, original game was released in 1993 and it's famous for being ported to all sorts of devices that at least have something resembling a CPU. I've read on VOGONS forum you may be able to run Doom Eternal from 2020 more smoothly on 2013 hardware than some mods on GZDoom specifically, some due to bad coding of mods, some due to all the cruft in the engine that's there to support competing standards for extending game logic. And even having expensive computer won't help with performance much. Kinda similar with Pale Moon, you can't sell that browser to an average individual, it's almost universally perceived as very slow. I'm somewhat used to it, but I also use other browsers, depending on the mood. Though I tried disabling 3 of 4 cores on my CPU recently and tried browsing on XP with Serpent, but this is where my patience ends, couldn't live with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroSkipper Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 (edited) 31 minutes ago, UCyborg said: Kinda similar with Pale Moon, you can't sell that browser to an average individual, it's almost universally perceived as very slow. I'm somewhat used to it, but I also use other browsers, depending on the mood. Though I tried disabling 3 of 4 cores on my CPU recently and tried browsing on XP with Serpent, but this is where my patience ends, couldn't live with that. What's good about this is that I always find time to smoke a cigarette and drink a cup of strong coffee or East Frisian tea. Edited May 22 by AstroSkipper Update of content 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adata Posted May 22 Share Posted May 22 Not loading https://www.naszezdrowie-przychodnie.pl/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathwiz Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 16 hours ago, UCyborg said: Kinda similar with Pale Moon, you can't sell that browser to an average individual, it's almost universally perceived as very slow. The irony is, the original idea behind Pale Moon, waaay back before XP even, at least as I understood it, was that it was supposed to just be Firefox optimized for Windows, so it was supposed to be (and seemed to be, on my ancient Win 98 PC) faster than vanilla Firefox. No new or different features, just better performance. This was like PM 3.6 or so, but it sure seems like they went astray somewhere along the line. And enabling AVX or whatever in 64-bit builds isn't going to make up for it. 16 hours ago, UCyborg said: I tried disabling 3 of 4 cores on my CPU recently and tried browsing on XP with Serpent, but this is where my patience ends, couldn't live with that. I tried disabling multiprocess mode on St 55 on Win 7 and had a similar experience. Couldn't even type a post on MSFN at 10-20 seconds per letter, with one CPU core maxed out! So, even with a single core, you might have had better luck with e10s forced on. It's my opinion that the OS version makes little difference in performance, assuming the application (browser or whatever) will run on both OSes. The app might be faster if optimized for a newer version, but in that case it's unlikely to run on the older version at all. It's mostly the hardware, rather than the OS, that provides good performance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroSkipper Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 (edited) 7 hours ago, Mathwiz said: On 5/22/2024 at 11:39 AM, UCyborg said: I tried disabling 3 of 4 cores on my CPU recently and tried browsing on XP with Serpent, but this is where my patience ends, couldn't live with that. I tried disabling multiprocess mode on St 55 on Win 7 and had a similar experience. Couldn't even type a post on MSFN at 10-20 seconds per letter, with one CPU core maxed out! So, even with a single core, you might have had better luck with e10s forced on. It's my opinion that the OS version makes little difference in performance, assuming the application (browser or whatever) will run on both OSes. The app might be faster if optimized for a newer version, but in that case it's unlikely to run on the older version at all. It's mostly the hardware, rather than the OS, that provides good performance. I always run Serpent in single-process mode as it is the only mode in New Moon 28. Furthermore, I think a real single-core CPU is not fully comparable with a multi-core CPU where only one core is enabled. Anyway! New Moon 28 works great but I have to agree with your observation on MSFN. Writing comments has become much worse than it was in the past. Many delays when entering letters. The whole forum editor has become more of a chronical disease. And I can't see any progress in the last few months that would represent any improvement. Edited May 23 by AstroSkipper Update of content 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCyborg Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 5 hours ago, AstroSkipper said: I think a real single-core CPU is not fully comparable with a multi-core CPU where only one core is enabled They're still comparable in a way that one core will still run only one task at once, just like single-core CPU. 13 hours ago, Mathwiz said: I tried disabling multiprocess mode on St 55 on Win 7 and had a similar experience. Couldn't even type a post on MSFN at 10-20 seconds per letter, with one CPU core maxed out! That does sound a bit extreme. I got few temporary freezes then and then for few seconds on my slowest computer, which has a dual-core APU (AMD's term for CPU and GPU in a single chip) clocked at 1,35 GHz, if I opened too many pages. At that point, it's better to restart the browser. MSFN is probably one of the lightest websites I visit. 13 hours ago, Mathwiz said: The irony is, the original idea behind Pale Moon, waaay back before XP even, at least as I understood it, was that it was supposed to just be Firefox optimized for Windows, so it was supposed to be (and seemed to be, on my ancient Win 98 PC) faster than vanilla Firefox. No new or different features, just better performance. This was like PM 3.6 or so, but it sure seems like they went astray somewhere along the line. And enabling AVX or whatever in 64-bit builds isn't going to make up for it. Back then web browsers were still more like fancy HTML document parsers. Then rapid-release treadmill started and browsers grew in complexity and I guess that idea got lost in trying to preserve other features making it distinct from ChromeZilla and fighting with web compatibility issues, which has turned into application platform in the meantime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstroSkipper Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 17 minutes ago, UCyborg said: They're still comparable in a way that one core will still run only one task at once, just like single-core CPU. One core, only one task at once, I agree. But there is more necessary for a complete comparison. However, I won't go into more detail at this point, as it would unfortunately be off-topic. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UCyborg Posted May 23 Share Posted May 23 (edited) On 3/17/2024 at 7:27 AM, ClassicNick said: If you ever manage to build your preferred browser using a Raspberry Pi 5 Welp, as I finally got around to this, I stumbled upon the first obstacle, there's no Python 2.7 in Debian Bookworm. Guess I'll have to figure out how to get cross compiling working on PC using older Debian or Debian based distro. Edited May 23 by UCyborg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathwiz Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 9 hours ago, UCyborg said: my slowest computer, which has a dual-core APU (AMD's term for CPU and GPU in a single chip) clocked at 1,35 GHz Sounds a lot like mine! Mine has a faster clock but otherwise very similar. It's about 10 years old but it still runs Serpent quite smoothly (at least in multiprocess mode, which isn't available in PM/NM/Basilisk). Switching topics, I think the problem with Serpent's fill login not working at Chase.com is due to Chase recently implementing custom elements on their login screen. They don't have <input> tags any more. Custom element support was added to UXP (& 55 by Roytam) but I don't think the fill login function was updated to work with custom elements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roytam1 Posted May 25 Author Share Posted May 25 New build of Serpent/UXP for XP! Test binary: Win32 https://o.rthost.win/basilisk/basilisk52-g4.8.win32-git-20240525-3219d2d-uxp-f8f3b3ee43-xpmod.7z Win64 https://o.rthost.win/basilisk/basilisk52-g4.8.win64-git-20240525-3219d2d-uxp-f8f3b3ee43-xpmod.7z source code that is comparable to my current working tree is available here: https://github.com/roytam1/UXP/commits/custom IA32 Win32 https://o.rthost.win/basilisk/basilisk52-g4.8.win32-git-20240525-3219d2d-uxp-f8f3b3ee43-xpmod-ia32.7z source code that is comparable to my current working tree is available here: https://github.com/roytam1/UXP/commits/ia32 NM28XP build: Win32 https://o.rthost.win/palemoon/palemoon-28.10.7a1.win32-git-20240525-d849524bd-uxp-f8f3b3ee43-xpmod.7z Win32 IA32 https://o.rthost.win/palemoon/palemoon-28.10.7a1.win32-git-20240525-d849524bd-uxp-f8f3b3ee43-xpmod-ia32.7z Win32 SSE https://o.rthost.win/palemoon/palemoon-28.10.7a1.win32-git-20240525-d849524bd-uxp-f8f3b3ee43-xpmod-sse.7z Win64 https://o.rthost.win/palemoon/palemoon-28.10.7a1.win64-git-20240525-d849524bd-uxp-f8f3b3ee43-xpmod.7z Official UXP changes picked since my last build: - [network] Make http digest auth cnonce length configurable. (f3413e94b9) - [gfx] Clear mSharedBlobData if blob creation failed. (552cd74b08) - [DOM] Clean up ReportLoadError and normalize error messages. (22830d18cf) - [gfx] Ensure font entry's unitsPerEm and font extents are initialized when gfxFont is created. (7672f932f7) - [gfx] Use calloc for cairo font-creation functions. (7d2ecc13dd) No official Pale-Moon changes picked since my last build. No official Basilisk changes picked since my last build. Update Notice: - You may delete file named icudt*.dat inside program folder when updating from old releases. * Notice: From now on, UXP rev will point to `custom` branch of my UXP repo instead of MCP UXP repo, while "official UXP changes" shows only `tracking` branch changes. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roytam1 Posted May 25 Author Share Posted May 25 New build of BOC/UXP for XP! Test binary: MailNews Win32 https://o.rthost.win/boc-uxp/mailnews.win32-20240525-7bda12e7-uxp-f8f3b3ee43-xpmod.7z BNavigator Win32 https://o.rthost.win/boc-uxp/bnavigator.win32-20240525-7bda12e7-uxp-f8f3b3ee43-xpmod.7z source repo (excluding UXP): https://github.com/roytam1/boc-uxp/tree/custom * Notice: the profile prefix (i.e. parent folder names) are also changed since 2020-08-15 build, you may rename their names before using new binaries when updating from builds before 2020-08-15. -- New build of HBL-UXP for XP! Test binary: IceDove-UXP(mail) https://o.rthost.win/hbl-uxp/icedove.win32-20240525-id-656ea98-uxp-f8f3b3ee43-xpmod.7z IceApe-UXP(suite) https://o.rthost.win/hbl-uxp/iceape.win32-20240525-id-656ea98-ia-93af9a0-uxp-f8f3b3ee43-xpmod.7z source repo (excluding UXP): https://github.com/roytam1/icedove-uxp/tree/winbuild https://github.com/roytam1/iceape-uxp/tree/winbuild 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roytam1 Posted May 25 Author Share Posted May 25 New build of post-deprecated Serpent/moebius for XP! * Notice: This repo will not be built on regular schedule, and changes are experimental as usual. ** Current moebius patch level should be on par with 52.9, but some security patches can not be applied/ported due to source milestone differences between versions. Test binary: Win32 https://o.rthost.win/basilisk/basilisk55-win32-git-20240525-65c612352-xpmod.7z Win64 https://o.rthost.win/basilisk/basilisk55-win64-git-20240525-65c612352-xpmod.7z repo: https://github.com/roytam1/basilisk55 Repo changes: - import from UXP: [network] Make http digest auth cnonce length configurable. (f3413e94) (1ef2155e7) - import from UXP: [gfx] Clear mSharedBlobData if blob creation failed. (552cd74b) (a433921f8) - ported from UXP: [DOM] Clean up ReportLoadError and normalize error messages. (22830d18) (e63613265) - import from UXP: [gfx] Ensure font entry's unitsPerEm and font extents are initialized when gfxFont is created. (7672f932) (a2d940753) - import from UXP: [gfx] Use calloc for cairo font-creation functions. (7d2ecc13) (65c612352) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roytam1 Posted May 25 Author Share Posted May 25 New NewMoon 27 Build! 32bit https://o.rthost.win/palemoon/palemoon-27.10.0.win32-git-20240525-df2987f659-xpmod.7z 32bit SSE https://o.rthost.win/palemoon/palemoon-27.10.0.win32-git-20240525-df2987f659-xpmod-sse.7z 32bit noSSE https://o.rthost.win/palemoon/palemoon-27.10.0.win32-git-20240525-df2987f659-xpmod-ia32.7z 64bit https://o.rthost.win/palemoon/palemoon-27.10.0.win64-git-20240525-df2987f659-xpmod.7z source repo: https://github.com/roytam1/palemoon27 repo changes since my last build: (snip) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roytam1 Posted May 25 Author Share Posted May 25 New regular/weekly KM-Goanna release: https://o.rthost.win/kmeleon/KM76.5.4-Goanna-20240525.7z Changelog: In-tree changes: - app: OnShowTooltip()/GetNodeText() API change for matching engine changes. (96521b30) - bump KM version for engine API changes (as of NM27 rev df2987f6) (91bd7c9c) Out-of-tree changes: (snip) * Notice: the changelog above may not always applicable to XULRunner code which K-Meleon uses. A goanna3 source tree that has kmeleon adaption patch applied is available here: https://github.com/roytam1/palemoon27/tree/kmeleon76 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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