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Window 10 is good or not?


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18 hours ago, Tonny52 said:

Seems like some Fisher Price computer OS that was made for children who are under the age of 3 trying to comprehend how to change their display resolution. Control Panel did it so much better, it was more effiecently using the space and had more items in it with less space taken up.

It's very interesting how people used to use that exact same description to describe the jump between Luna and Windows Classic, and now people want the likes of Luna and Aero back regardless of their criticism at the time. :P

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4 hours ago, Koishi Komeiji said:

It's very interesting how people used to use that exact same description to describe the jump between Luna and Windows Classic, and now people want the likes of Luna and Aero back regardless of their criticism at the time. :P

You could use the small icons or large icons control panel. I still use large icons on any Windows version

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On 10/22/2020 at 3:43 AM, Koishi Komeiji said:

It's very interesting how people used to use that exact same description to describe the jump between Luna and Windows Classic, and now people want the likes of Luna and Aero back regardless of their criticism at the time. :P

We never realized how great it was back then. Fluent on Windows 10 looks fine, I like it. What I don't like is just how BIG everything is. Settings is big, the start menu is big, just everything is big.

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The point is though is not even the UI or that. Sure, Windows 10 uses a lot of ram, and it's not surprising because as time goes on, the operating systems for whatever reason keep getting bigger.

The main reason for this in Windows 10 is the addition of like 100 more processes running, most of them being svchost.exe. Microsoft added a LOT more services into Windows 10, most of them being diagnostic and telemetry related. First red flag there.

I will continue to hate the Windows 10 UI until it is consistent. Fun fact, there are still Windows XP and 2K icons in Windows 10. Generally because shell32's code hasn't changed since then. Only the resources have.

The telemetry is the main reason why I really want to leave 10. I don't like having my data sold, its not Microsoft's data. The OS on my computer is what I purchased. I have the right to tamper with it, modify it, and use it without what I do on it being sold and Microsoft telling me that I can't modify it. They think that Windows is a service that you bought to use your computer. They call it that so people don't realize that its really just so they have control on the computers. 

People say that Satya came in and fixed everything. That is a businessman's perspective. On the consumers, it completely destroyed our right to use Windows privately and personalize it the way we want to. Remember back when everyone used 7? How most of the time you would see really modified and personalized installations? You don't see that often with 10 anymore.

For those who like 10 and argue back to the ones who hate it, saying that modifying it is casuing the bugs with it, you are right. Exactly correct. That is the problem. We shouldn't NEED to modify our OS just to make it secure and less invasive. That is just how Microsoft made it need to be. 

Does anyone still remember when Microsoft actually had Windows Update channels regardless? People who clicked Check for Updates more often got less-stable updates on purpose because Microsoft assumed they wanted beta software?

Windows 7 was the last OS that Microsoft actually tried to make good. After the rocky road with Vista they wanted to redeem themself. And they did. Everyone loved Windows 7. People still use it 11 years later.

Windows 8 was the first attempt at a "OS for all." They failed at that because they never made it appealing for mouse and keyboard users. They overestimated the growth of touch screens.

Windows 8.1 just added the start button back and nothing else. Still fine as you can use Classic Shell to fix this.

Windows 10 was supposed to fix all the issues of Windows 7 and Windows 8.1, as well as bring all the features loved. We're talking the best OS of all time. But what we recieved at launch was an incomplete OS that had LESS features than Windows 7 and 8.1. The worst part of all, is that unlike Windows 8.1 release and Windows 7 release, this time Microsoft wanted people to use it. So GWX existed. 

Never had that happen on previous releases of Windows. People hated GWX because some people got forcefully upgraded without their consent and against their will. Microsoft never owned the computers. They do not have the right to forcefully change how our computers work. I BOUGHT THE COMPONENTS AND THE LICENSE. It doesn't matter what the EULA says even though it may be in there, but it is my property and I have the right to do whatever the hell I want with it.

In fact, a small business computer, which was used for basically all their things, was forcefully upgraded to 10. The upgrade failed and the revert failed so it was stuck in an unusable state. They sued Microsoft for it.

Microsoft calls it the "latest and greatest Windows ever" because its extremely profitable for them. They could not care at all what you think about it.

Microsoft also tries to shut out the competition and absorb it if they find it dangerous for their business. Its an extreme monopoly thats happening there.

The reason that Office 2019 didn't support 7 or 8.1 even though they were still in support at the time was because they wanted you to stop using 7 or 8.1 regardless of support or not. They wanted you on 10 so they could earn more money. Telemetry did exist in 7 and 8.1 near the end of its life because Microsoft made it that way, but you could easily disable it and remove it, because they were just Windows Updates.

Another reason is that WSL suddenly over the last few years got a lot more development going on with it. Mainly because, Microsoft does realize how much poetential Linux has in the future. To prevent Linux from gaining motion, they suddenly started developing hard and fast with WSL to drive people considering to switch back into Windows and move some Linux users back to Windows. 

Nothing will change under Satya at this point. They never wanted to copy Apple. They just had a strategy to control their userbase and shape it into what they wanted it to be. And we here are the last of the legacy Windows fans.

I loved Windows 7. I was such a big fan of it. I just loved how it was so simple and I was so much more productive on it. It was an actual tool, unlike Windows 10, where you have to tool the OS.

I really don't know what type of drugs happened in 2014 but ever since then Microsoft has completely destroyed that Windows fans loved about the OS.

And all of this will be forced upon us in the next few years. As programs drop support for Windows 7 and 8.1, we will find most of us forced on Linux (which will also fall apart because of Microsoft trying to destroy it) and last of all Windows 10. Microsoft will force everything to run Windows 10 in the future. It's how they want it.

Until there is a class action lawsuit against them (which will never happen, because those companies get some nice juicy data about their users from Microsoft) nothing will ever change and we could be seeing the most unexciting software.

I guess in the future its time to just give up our privacy and right to own our computer.

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Just use Open Shell:

https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu

and you have Windows 7.

For telemetry, etc., run O&O Shutup and Windows Privacy Dashboard. Also, don't forget that telemetry also appeared in Win 7 and 8 and needed Aegis VOAT or similar to block.

Finally, don't forget that updates end for older versions of the operating system, and security software can only do so much.

Meanwhile, check out night mode, dark mode, the new Power Toys, etc.

 

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6 hours ago, Tonny52 said:

We never realized how great it was back then. Fluent on Windows 10 looks fine, I like it. What I don't like is just how BIG everything is. Settings is big, the start menu is big, just everything is big.

Yeah, I prefer things to be small, but not too small, and definitely not too big.

When I jailbreak/root an iPhone/Android, one of the first things I change is the res/DPI.

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1 hour ago, monkeylove said:

Just use Open Shell:

https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu

and you have Windows 7.

For telemetry, etc., run O&O Shutup and Windows Privacy Dashboard. Also, don't forget that telemetry also appeared in Win 7 and 8 and needed Aegis VOAT or similar to block.

Finally, don't forget that updates end for older versions of the operating system, and security software can only do so much.

Meanwhile, check out night mode, dark mode, the new Power Toys, etc.

 

These two look the same?

open-shell.png

windows-7-cambiare-tasto-start.png

I think you might want to see a optometrist

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7 hours ago, Tonny52 said:

The point is though is not even the UI or that. Sure, Windows 10 uses a lot of ram, and it's not surprising because as time goes on, the operating systems for whatever reason keep getting bigger.

The main reason for this in Windows 10 is the addition of like 100 more processes running, most of them being svchost.exe. Microsoft added a LOT more services into Windows 10, most of them being diagnostic and telemetry related. First red flag there.

I will continue to hate the Windows 10 UI until it is consistent. Fun fact, there are still Windows XP and 2K icons in Windows 10. Generally because shell32's code hasn't changed since then. Only the resources have.

The telemetry is the main reason why I really want to leave 10. I don't like having my data sold, its not Microsoft's data. The OS on my computer is what I purchased. I have the right to tamper with it, modify it, and use it without what I do on it being sold and Microsoft telling me that I can't modify it. They think that Windows is a service that you bought to use your computer. They call it that so people don't realize that its really just so they have control on the computers. 

People say that Satya came in and fixed everything. That is a businessman's perspective. On the consumers, it completely destroyed our right to use Windows privately and personalize it the way we want to. Remember back when everyone used 7? How most of the time you would see really modified and personalized installations? You don't see that often with 10 anymore.

 

Exactly! My feelings exactly. IMO, MSFT went downhill when Satya took over. Not from a stock perspective maybe, but from a quality perspective.

To be fair, Windows 8 happened before Satya, so it's not completely his fault.

Gates should have just stayed CEO. I'll take Internet Explorer over Edge any day.

 

7 hours ago, Tonny52 said:

For those who like 10 and argue back to the ones who hate it, saying that modifying it is casuing the bugs with it, you are right. Exactly correct. That is the problem. We shouldn't NEED to modify our OS just to make it secure and less invasive. That is just how Microsoft made it need to be. 

Does anyone still remember when Microsoft actually had Windows Update channels regardless? People who clicked Check for Updates more often got less-stable updates on purpose because Microsoft assumed they wanted beta software?

Windows 7 was the last OS that Microsoft actually tried to make good. After the rocky road with Vista they wanted to redeem themself. And they did. Everyone loved Windows 7. People still use it 11 years later.

 

Yup...

 

7 hours ago, Tonny52 said:

Windows 8 was the first attempt at a "OS for all." They failed at that because they never made it appealing for mouse and keyboard users. They overestimated the growth of touch screens.

Windows 8.1 just added the start button back and nothing else. Still fine as you can use Classic Shell to fix this.

Windows 10 was supposed to fix all the issues of Windows 7 and Windows 8.1, as well as bring all the features loved. We're talking the best OS of all time. But what we recieved at launch was an incomplete OS that had LESS features than Windows 7 and 8.1. The worst part of all, is that unlike Windows 8.1 release and Windows 7 release, this time Microsoft wanted people to use it. So GWX existed. 

Never had that happen on previous releases of Windows. People hated GWX because some people got forcefully upgraded without their consent and against their will. Microsoft never owned the computers. They do not have the right to forcefully change how our computers work. I BOUGHT THE COMPONENTS AND THE LICENSE. It doesn't matter what the EULA says even though it may be in there, but it is my property and I have the right to do whatever the hell I want with it.

In fact, a small business computer, which was used for basically all their things, was forcefully upgraded to 10. The upgrade failed and the revert failed so it was stuck in an unusable state. They sued Microsoft for it.

Microsoft calls it the "latest and greatest Windows ever" because its extremely profitable for them. They could not care at all what you think about it.

 

Ironically, Windows 10 is very lax about activation, so I don't see how they're making money off it. The "free upgrade" still works. They know it's so bad, there's no way people would use it if they forced people to pay...

 

7 hours ago, Tonny52 said:

Microsoft also tries to shut out the competition and absorb it if they find it dangerous for their business. Its an extreme monopoly thats happening there.

The reason that Office 2019 didn't support 7 or 8.1 even though they were still in support at the time was because they wanted you to stop using 7 or 8.1 regardless of support or not. They wanted you on 10 so they could earn more money. Telemetry did exist in 7 and 8.1 near the end of its life because Microsoft made it that way, but you could easily disable it and remove it, because they were just Windows Updates.

 

Yeah, Microsoft took a page out of Apple's playbook. "Break everything possible."

 

7 hours ago, Tonny52 said:

Another reason is that WSL suddenly over the last few years got a lot more development going on with it. Mainly because, Microsoft does realize how much poetential Linux has in the future. To prevent Linux from gaining motion, they suddenly started developing hard and fast with WSL to drive people considering to switch back into Windows and move some Linux users back to Windows. 

 

WSL isn't new. I have the Unix Subsystem on Windows 7. Requires the Enterprise/Ultimate SKU I think, though.

 

7 hours ago, Tonny52 said:

Nothing will change under Satya at this point. They never wanted to copy Apple. They just had a strategy to control their userbase and shape it into what they wanted it to be. And we here are the last of the legacy Windows fans.

I loved Windows 7. I was such a big fan of it. I just loved how it was so simple and I was so much more productive on it. It was an actual tool, unlike Windows 10, where you have to tool the OS.

I really don't know what type of drugs happened in 2014 but ever since then Microsoft has completely destroyed that Windows fans loved about the OS.

And all of this will be forced upon us in the next few years. As programs drop support for Windows 7 and 8.1, we will find most of us forced on Linux (which will also fall apart because of Microsoft trying to destroy it) and last of all Windows 10. Microsoft will force everything to run Windows 10 in the future. It's how they want it.

 

Not true. I will just stay on 7. Linux is untennable. It's a server OS, not a workstation OS. Love Linux, all (well, most, besides the Windows Servers) my servers run headless Debian, but it's an awful workstation OS. You can't beat Windows, no matter how crappy it gets.

 

7 hours ago, Tonny52 said:

Until there is a class action lawsuit against them (which will never happen, because those companies get some nice juicy data about their users from Microsoft) nothing will ever change and we could be seeing the most unexciting software.

I guess in the future its time to just give up our privacy and right to own our computer.

 

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20 hours ago, Tonny52 said:

We never realized how great it was back then.

Yeah, happens in a lot of scenarios, for example also in the car industry (Renault Avantime anyone?) and how nowadays in music we don't get the likes of B-sides normally from most Western bands... heck even the idea of bands is going as social media wants it all to be about one person at the spotlight of a creation, I feel. Grant Nicholas from Feeder has mentioned this a few times, about how deep down we do want to be united like a band, but society basically tells us to show off only individually, especially nowadays.

Went offtopic there but yeah, self-held and generally-held attitudes to things changing over time, good/bad memories, etc. can really greatly affect others' opinions, aggression on beliefs with certain subjects, and experiences.

 

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18 hours ago, asdf2345 said:

These two look the same?

open-shell.png

windows-7-cambiare-tasto-start.png

I think you might want to see a optometrist

By "the same," I mean the start button and icons on the left, the system tray, icons and data on the right, the search box above the start menu and the shutdown/restart, etc., button on the right, three types of start menus to choose from, and more. Don't forget that you can also hide the tray search box, remove icons from the task bar, configure Open Shell further, change the wallpaper, and more.

Finally, there's no need to resort to personal insults.

 

 

 

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There's one more point to consider: security updates ended or will end for older versions of the operating system. Security software can only do so much, and newer versions of them likely won't run with older systems.

 

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21 minutes ago, monkeylove said:

By "the same," I mean the start button and icons on the left, the system tray, icons and data on the right, the search box above the start menu and the shutdown/restart, etc., button on the right, three types of start menus to choose from, and more. Don't forget that you can also hide the tray search box, remove icons from the task bar, configure Open Shell further, change the wallpaper, and more.

Finally, there's no need to resort to personal insults.

 

 

 

Well, to me, opaque Window borders, missing libraries, flat and opaque taskbar, telemetry up the wazoo, useless assistant, telemetry filled Chromium default browser, file explorer with ads, and more is quite different than Windows 7.

Also, it was just a suggestion.

21 minutes ago, monkeylove said:

There's one more point to consider: security updates ended or will end for older versions of the operating system. Security software can only do so much, and newer versions of them likely won't run with older systems.

 

A out of date Chromium would make Windows 10 less secure than Windows Vista (With Extended Kernel) using the latest Chromium. That's how little security updates matter with Windows. I even mained Windows 7 updated to 2016-09, out of date browser, out of date Steam client, and more out of date programs for around a year, and I did it all without getting any malware.

Also, as long as the security software gets database updates, it doesn't matter if it's out of date, in fact, I use a 2017 copy of my security software.

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21 hours ago, asdf2345 said:

open-shell.png

It's set to Metro skin, which might be the default setting to not look out place compared to the rest of the OS. Selecting Windows Aero on the Skin tab makes it more similar to Win7 menu.

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15 hours ago, asdf2345 said:

Well, to me, opaque Window borders, missing libraries, flat and opaque taskbar, telemetry up the wazoo, useless assistant, telemetry filled Chromium default browser, file explorer with ads, and more is quite different than Windows 7.

Also, it was just a suggestion.

A out of date Chromium would make Windows 10 less secure than Windows Vista (With Extended Kernel) using the latest Chromium. That's how little security updates matter with Windows. I even mained Windows 7 updated to 2016-09, out of date browser, out of date Steam client, and more out of date programs for around a year, and I did it all without getting any malware.

Also, as long as the security software gets database updates, it doesn't matter if it's out of date, in fact, I use a 2017 copy of my security software.

I don't think that's correct advice. AFAIK, the reason why security updates are made for operating systems and even apps is because security software can't compensate. In fact, even security software needs to be updated (and not just the databases), and it's very several won't update or make new versions for older operating systems.

Also, malware has become more sophisticated, such that identifying for signatures is insufficient. Features like behavior blocking and even core isolation will be needed to keep them in check, especially if they are new.

 

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