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dork

Is Vista a lost cause on modern hardware?

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1 hour ago, burd said:

Already Tried Doing the Manual Adding and the Auto(official ms iso) and it turned out real bad, also i have a laptop so im unable to change my gpu or cpu or ram or memory,i do use a hdmi connected to my monitor though and i have asmedia 3.1 usb drivers that connect directly to my motherboard, the deal here is, i kept on using vista through the bugs and now it almost boots up 90% of the times flawlessly for some reason.

Btw i have dual booted Windows 7 and Vista(Win7 Has no Issues whatsoever)

If you want to checkout my laptop then here it is

https://www.msi.com/Laptop/GT72VR-6RD-Dominator.html

Im a semi professional gamer so i use it :)

 

nVidia 600M series is the last Laptop certified drivers for XP and Vista.

 

XP 32-Bit
GeForce 307.83 Driver
Release Date:     2013.2.26
http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/57623/en-us

Vista 64-Bits
GeForce 310.90 Driver
Release Date:     2013.1.5
http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/55124/en-us

 

You're going to need this adapter to use a GTX 900 series desktop graphics card on it.  Yes it's a cheat but it will work.

Expresscard 34 To 2 PCI Express 16x slots adapter Laptop to PCI-e 1x 4x 8x 16x

$110 total with the shipping cost.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Expresscard-34-To-2-PCI-Express-16x-slots-adapter-Laptop-to-PCI-e-1x-4x-8x-16x-/201177973257?_trksid=p2385738.m2548.l4275

 

Last official GTX 900 Series XP and Vista Driver

https://www.geforce.com/drivers/results/102379

Version365.19 - WHQL

Release DateFri May 13, 2016

Now with that adapter you could try a GTX Titan X but your laptop probably couldn't handle it. ;)

GTX 980 Ti and GTX 980 might be just the right amount of power your laptop could use at near 100% :crazy:

But who's to say Crysis 3 on a laptop wasn't possible at max details?

 

Now I don't know your laptop specs but if it is DDR3 which I assume it might be then the most you can get is 16GB using 8GB x 2.

DDR2 I could get 8GB max using 4GB x 2.  And originally it was a 4GB (2GB x2).  Going from 4GB to 8GB was a huge improvement for Vista.

16GB is the lowest I'd go on a desktop but on a barebones test trying to squeeze as much RAM to a Ramdrive it looks like 6GB of untouched RAM is the bare minimum or you have slow boot up issues or the orb keeps circling non stop and won't go to the desktop.  I'm not sure if you've seen this bug but this is a low memory issue.  Sometimes it will boot fine but stall around for about 3mins longer than a normal boot.  So 8GB would be a bare laptop minimum recommendation but this is before adding or running applications as that adds to the memory usage.  For example Crysis if you added that even though it could run on 4GB total memory on a laptop it lagged so much from the swapping.  8GB it really helped but I would say 16GB is really the bare minimum which is why XP 32-bit is a better OS on Ivy Bridge laptops and occasional Vista 64-bit usage.  With DDR4 laptops with two memory slots can probably max out at 32GB (16GB x 2).  I really don't think they will get 32GB modules.  Laptops seem to get stiffed and get half the max capacity of desktops.

 

 

Edited by 98SE

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1 minute ago, 98SE said:

 

nVidia 600M series is the last Laptop certified drivers for XP and Vista.

 

XP 32-Bit
GeForce 307.83 Driver
Release Date:     2013.2.26
http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/57623/en-us

Vista 64-Bits
GeForce 310.90 Driver
Release Date:     2013.1.5
http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/55124/en-us

 

You're going to need this adapter to use a GTX 900 series desktop graphics card on it.  Yes it's a cheat but it will work.

Expresscard 34 To 2 PCI Express 16x slots adapter Laptop to PCI-e 1x 4x 8x 16x

$110 total with the shipping cost.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Expresscard-34-To-2-PCI-Express-16x-slots-adapter-Laptop-to-PCI-e-1x-4x-8x-16x-/201177973257?_trksid=p2385738.m2548.l4275

 

Now I don't know your laptop specs but if it is DDR3 which I assume it might be then the most you can get is 16GB using 8GB x 2.

DDR2 I could get 8GB max using 4GB x 2.  And originally it was a 4GB (2GB x2).  Going from 4GB to 8GB was a huge improvement for Vista.

16GB is the lowest I'd go on a desktop but on a barebones test trying to squeeze as much RAM to a Ramdrive it looks like 6GB of untouched RAM is the bare minimum or you have slow boot up issues or the orb keeps circling non stop and won't go to the desktop.  I'm not sure if you've seen this bug but this is a low memory issue.  Sometimes it will boot fine but stall around for about 3mins longer than a normal boot.  So 8GB would be a bare laptop minimum recommendation but this is before adding or running applications as that adds to the memory usage.  For example Crysis if you added that even though it could run on 4GB total memory on a laptop it lagged so much from the swapping.  8GB it really helped but I would say 16GB is really the bare minimum which is why XP 32-bit is a better OS on Ivy Bridge laptops and occasional Vista 64-bit usage.  With DDR4 laptops with two memory slots can probably max out at 32GB (16GB x 2).  I really don't think they will get 32GB modules.  Laptops seem to get stiffed and get half the max capacity of desktops.

 

DDR4, i also have a gtx 1060 which is a desktop card in a laptop,i do have the drivers aswell 372.70 which works on 1080,1070 and 1060(maybe even 1050) also im not sure why youre telling all this as i wasnt really complaining regarding vista's bugs(i barely get them at all)i think you have mistaken me for @2008WindowsVista or am i wrong?

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1 hour ago, burd said:

DDR4, i also have a gtx 1060 which is a desktop card in a laptop,i do have the drivers aswell 372.70 which works on 1080,1070 and 1060(maybe even 1050) also im not sure why youre telling all this as i wasnt really complaining regarding vista's bugs(i barely get them at all)i think you have mistaken me for @2008WindowsVista or am i wrong?

Yes you were responding after I responded to 2KWV.  If the information doesn't apply to your situation then ignore it.

DDR4 you'll probably max out at 32GB if you can afford the laptop RAM.  Are you using the same adapter I listed?  So if you're already using a graphics card externally then I would still suggest you get a 900 series Maxwell to do a stability comparison.  If you're using Vista drivers that weren't official that could be the cause of your problems but if you have no issues or bugs on your laptop then ignore my previous messages.

I never experienced any problems running Vista.  I usually test XP, Vista, and Windows 7 on new builds.

Edited by 98SE
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1 minute ago, 98SE said:

Yes you were responding after I responded to 2KWV.  If the information doesn't apply to your situation then ignore it.

DDR4 you'll probably max out at 32GB if you afford the laptop RAM.  Are you using the same adapter I listed?  So if you're already using a graphics card externally then I would still suggest you get a 900 series Maxwell to do a stability comparison.  If you're using Vista drivers that weren't official that could be the cause of your problems but if you have issues or bugs on your laptop then ignore my previous messages.

I never experienced any problems running Vista.  I usually test XP, Vista, and Windows 7 on new builds.

youre misinformed, check google or something, the 10series have no mobile series, theyre all dekstop cards that are slightly underclocked for laptops(Basically inbuilt desktop card inside the laptop) i dont use any external cards

Edited by burd

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1 hour ago, burd said:

youre misinformed, check google or something, the 10series have no mobile series, theyre all dekstop cards that are slightly underclocked for laptops(Basically inbuilt desktop card inside the laptop) i dont use any external cards

I never said Pascal 1000 series have Mobile read up.   600M was the last Mobile series at least for XP and Vista.

I was suggesting the adapter I listed to use full size desktop graphic cards on a laptop which then you could use a GTX Titan X, 980 TI, or 980.  The 900 series is the last desktop graphics cards for XP and Vista.

Edited by 98SE

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3 minutes ago, 98SE said:

I never said 10 series have Mobile read up.   600M was the last Mobile series at least for XP and Vista.

I was suggesting the adapter I listed to use full size desktop graphic cards on a laptop which then you could use a GTX Titan X, 980 TI, or 980.

the option is always there to get a laptop with gtx 980 to use an egpu but i dont really see how it would help in any way other than have official vista drivers (365.19)

Also note the vista bugs are cpu related (Haswell+ cpu's)

While i do appreciate you trying to help out, i dont really see the need of getting a gfx or swapping for older material when i can already run it full fledged :D

Edited by burd

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1 hour ago, burd said:

the option is always there to get a laptop with gtx 980 to use an egpu but i dont really see how it would help in any way other than have official vista drivers (365.19)

Also note the vista bugs are cpu related (Haswell+ cpu's)

While i do appreciate you trying to help out, i dont really see the need of getting a gfx or swapping for older material when i can already run it full fledged :D

Like I said I have no problems running Vista 64-bit on my Desktop and I don't use Laptops (Haswell+) since no XP drivers will work on the Intel iGPU so you'd have to frankenstein the thing.  So if your problems with Haswell are laptop related and not desktop related that might point to some kind of Laptop compatibility issue?  If I had a Haswell/Broadwell/SkyLake or Kaby Lake laptop I wouldn't use anything but Windows 7 and later due to driver issues for the onboard devices might not be available.  The external dual PCIe slots adapter is the only way I'd even consider getting XP and Vista working on it as a last resort.

 

Edited by 98SE

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11 hours ago, 98SE said:

Tripredacus are you sure about that or where are you getting this information?  SkyLake and Kaby Lake CPUs should work fine.  I have Vista 64-Bit and Windows 7 64-Bit working on SkyLake and Kaby Lake on Z170.

 

By the way since I'm a Transformers G1 fan and I can't quite pinpoint it but your Avatar seems to remind me of Ravage the micro cassette tape that went into SoundWave.  It was one of favorites since it had some metal parts to it instead of all plastic.  But I can't see any relation of Tripedacus to your Avatar.

I get the information from the OEM channel. It is "forward looking" but inventory forcasting is showing that Windows 7 Embedded will be forced out of the market due to CPU support. Having something "work" for regular people is not the same as creating products that are certified and officially supported.

So while Windows 7 Embedded will still be an active SKU for a few more years, soon there will be no processors available to be used. I could clarify, not really talking about low end SOC type CPUs, but regarding devices that use or require quad core or equivalent CPU as i5 and i7. A lot of embedded devices are now working with 4k video and high resolution cameras and Atom CPUs are not good enough for that type of application.

Ravage was an Agent of the Tripredacus Council in Beast Wars.

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5 minutes ago, 98SE said:

Like I said I have no problems running Vista 64-bit on my Desktop and don't use Laptops (Haswell+) since no XP drivers will work on the Intel iGPU you'd have to frankenstein the thing.  So if your problems with Haswell are laptop related and not desktop related that might point to some kind of Laptop compatibility issue?  If I had a Haswell/Broadwell/SkyLake or Kaby Lake laptop I wouldn't use anything but Windows 7 and later due to driver issues for the onboard devices might not be available.  The external dual PCIe slots adapter is the only way I'd even consider getting XP and Vista working on it as a last resort.

 

 

true but im saying that i used to have problems that @2008WindowsVista mentioned but slowly over a week or so theyre almost like auto fixed or something(fresh install),i have an old haswell aswell and i remember the bugs appearing on that and never getting fixed,but currently im using skylake and i agree the problems appear but only like a 5-10% chance, such a small chance isnt worth paying tonnes of bucks to get a egpu and a 980 :/

Been using vista 64 business since november 2016 its not as bad as it seems :)

 

Edited by burd

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1 hour ago, 98SE said:

I never had these problems you described.

You might want to detail which version of Vista you are using (US, Europe, et cetera), Starter, Home Basic, Home Premium, Business, Enterprise, or Ultimate, which Service Pack if any, what Graphics card, sound card, and network card used.  If using onboard or PCIe card for USB controller.

How much RAM you have installed and are you running any Page File, Swap file, have hibernation activated, or using a Ramdrive?

I am using this HP Envy 700-074 pre-built desktop: https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c03787848

Trying to install Vista at first was completely impossible, was getting 0x00000124 blue screens just trying to load the Vista installation. Had to disable the PCI SERR# Generation option in the BIOS just to get it to work. After installing Vista (which took a couple of attempts because some times the installer would just leave me with a black screen and a cursor), the operating system was completely unstable with random services not starting up when I got to the desktop, and going to the lock or logout screen would sometimes leave me with a back screen and cursor. This was from a clean install of Vista Ultimate SP2 + Platform Update 64-bit US. Eventually when I put my PC into the lock screen I got a black screen that I couldn't get out of so I had no choice but to hard reset my computer. After that I couldn't even boot into the OS anymore, blue screened everytime with an IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL error.

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1 minute ago, dork said:

I am using this HP Envy 700-074 pre-built desktop: https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c03787848

Trying to install Vista at first was completely impossible, was getting 0x00000124 blue screens just trying to load the Vista installation. Had to disable the PCI SERR# Generation option in the BIOS just to get it to work. After installing Vista (which took a couple of attempts because some times the installer would just leave me with a black screen and a cursor), the operating system was completely unstable with random services not starting up when I got to the desktop, and going to the lock or logout screen would sometimes leave me with a back screen and cursor. This was from a clean install of Vista Ultimate SP2 + Platform Update 64-bit US. Eventually when I put my PC into the lock screen I got a black screen that I couldn't get out of so I had no choice but to hard reset my computer. After that I couldn't even boot into the OS anymore, blue screened everytime with an IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL error.

quite weird i dont get any of these errors at all,not even once, though my pc cant awaken from sleep mode thats about it.

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1 hour ago, Tripredacus said:

I get the information from the OEM channel. It is "forward looking" but inventory forcasting is showing that Windows 7 Embedded will be forced out of the market due to CPU support. Having something "work" for regular people is not the same as creating products that are certified and officially supported.

So while Windows 7 Embedded will still be an active SKU for a few more years, soon there will be no processors available to be used. I could clarify, not really talking about low end SOC type CPUs, but regarding devices that use or require quad core or equivalent CPU as i5 and i7. A lot of embedded devices are now working with 4k video and high resolution cameras and Atom CPUs are not good enough for that type of application.

Ravage was an Agent of the Tripredacus Council in Beast Wars.

As I understand it.  XP Embedded and W7 Embedded are use a bare bones version of their larger desktop OS counterpart but perhaps a bit more optimized so it runs with less code.  But I would guess if a Desktop CPU version of Cannon Lake works in XP, Vista, and Windows 7 most likely the Embedded version could work as well.  I think the only thing that MS has done that may push W7 Embedded users away is not allowing updates to work on Post SkyLake CPUs as they had wanted to do.  But some people around found a way to allow Kaby Lake CPUs to get those updates so unless the IT Admin in charge of those W7 Embedded was a complete moron and couldn't figure out how to install W7E on newer CPUs then they should fire the guy.  But the only thing that would prevent W7E not install on say Kaby Lake or later is they have to update the SATA controller IDs to detect the newer chipsets which is what XP has been doing all these years to stay alive.

 

As for Ravage, ;)  I think you took your avatar from the Transformers G1 cartoon from Hasbro did you not?

More than Meets The Eye...:worship:

 

 

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1 hour ago, dork said:

I am using this HP Envy 700-074 pre-built desktop: https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c03787848

Trying to install Vista at first was completely impossible, was getting 0x00000124 blue screens just trying to load the Vista installation. Had to disable the PCI SERR# Generation option in the BIOS just to get it to work. After installing Vista (which took a couple of attempts because some times the installer would just leave me with a black screen and a cursor), the operating system was completely unstable with random services not starting up when I got to the desktop, and going to the lock or logout screen would sometimes leave me with a back screen and cursor. This was from a clean install of Vista Ultimate SP2 + Platform Update 64-bit US. Eventually when I put my PC into the lock screen I got a black screen that I couldn't get out of so I had no choice but to hard reset my computer. After that I couldn't even boot into the OS anymore, blue screened everytime with an IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL error.

The only thing I would suggest as I despise AIO PCs since they usually neuter the BIOS options.

Can you disable onboard audio, LAN, and USB controllers?

More stuff to disable found:

Integrated Bluetooth 4.0

Wireless LAN 802.11b/g/n featuring Single-band (2.4Ghz) 1 X 1 technology

You'll need a Wired PS/2 mouse and Wired PS/2 keyboard.

:Update:

Looks like your AOI PC has no PS/2 ports on the rear.  This one is going to be harder to troubleshoot since you need the input devices.  So in your situation just enable the USB 2.0 ports they are the grey ones underneath your ethernet port on the left.  Make sure the USB 3.0 controller is disabled.  Plug a USB wired mouse and USB wired keyboard into those two USB 2.0 ports.  Do not use Wireless mouse and Wireless keyboard.

Some have no PS/2 keyboard and PS/2 mouse port.  So if you have one of those it might be a little tricky to troubleshoot without a 3rd party USB card but if you have one PS/2 port then I'd stick the Keyboard into it and try and install with just the keyboard only.

Do that first.  Remove all internal cards if you have any.  Remove any other drives except for the optical and one hard drive or SSD.  The hard drive or SSD you are going to install Vista clean is going to be wiped so if there is any data you want to keep back it up to another drive first.

Now you'll need a SATA to USB adapter to hook this drive up to another computer and use Windows Disk Management and delete all the partitions on this drive.  Be careful to not delete partitions on your working drive so pay attention which Drive you selected.  Eject and remove this drive.

Hook up the SATA optical drive only to the "Intel" SATA controller and then the hard drive you just wiped unless it's brand new or SSD to the "Intel' SATA controller.  Do not hook to a 3rd party SATA controller if it has one.

Disable the Asmedia or other 3rd party SATA controller in the BIOS.

Install a real graphics card inserted in your motherboard slot and hook it up to the HDMI output on the rear of the video card.  Some compatible nVidia graphics card models are 200 series up to 900 series.  Haswell Intel iGPU does not support Vista at all.  In the BIOS make sure after the graphics card is installed you choose the PCIe card for primary graphics.  If you see an option for Intel iGPU Shared Memory set it to Auto do not leave it on 32M - 1024MB range or it'll activate and we want it disabled.

Put in the authentic Vista 64-Bit Ultimate DVD and install onto a fresh hard drive that is MBR and 2TB or less in capacity for this test.

You can make the 1st partition 120GB or 128GB no larger.  You can make another 120GB/128GB 2nd partition the same size as the 1st partition then partition the rest of the space off as one chunk or however you want.

Set the BIOS to boot off the optical drive as the 1st device.

Don't try adding any new hardware internally or activate any of the disabled hardware in the BIOS we shut off.

Once you complete the Vista install then only add SP2 and nothing else no other updates.

Reboot after done

Add the DX11 Updates.

Reboot after done

Image the the entire partition in its clean state to the 2nd partition.

Now you can mess around and install your graphics card drivers.  Prefer using the HDMI here if you can output this for video and audio.  Test the stability of this clean Vista OS state for a few days and let me know if it still crashes.

 

 

Edited by 98SE

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34 minutes ago, 98SE said:

As I understand it.  XP Embedded and W7 Embedded are use a bare bones version of their larger desktop OS counterpart but perhaps a bit more optimized so it runs with less code.

Not really-really.

The definition is that of a "componentized version of the OS", basically if you include *everything* (every component) at build time, what you get is the "full" OS.

jaclaz

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1 hour ago, 98SE said:

As I understand it.  XP Embedded and W7 Embedded are use a bare bones version of their larger desktop OS counterpart but perhaps a bit more optimized so it runs with less code. 

As for Ravage, ;)  I think you took your avatar from the Transformers G1 cartoon from Hasbro did you not?

It depends. There are two main versions for those Embedded OS, Enterprise and Standard. One is the componentized version where you can leave parts out. In my experience, most companies that use the Embedded OS are heavily reliant on Windows Explorer or Internet Explorer components and often do not develop their own shell. As a result, it is more in practice to use the Standard edition which is the same exact OS as the desktop counterpart (from a technical standpoint) except that the activation is different. The other main difference is that it supports write filters. I have found that most companies decide to build on a Windows Embedded OS simply because the cost per license is significantly cheaper than the desktop equivalent.

My avatar is from the back cover of G1 v1 #1b published by Dreamwave.

Edit for jaclaz: For componentized version, that trick of checking all the boxes does work for XP. It doesn't work for 7 because it still leaves some pieces out such as Bluetooth and some other things I forget exactly.

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